The time to die, should be of our choosing ?

[Social Media]

 

However difficult it is to legally protect assisted dying, we should still try.

 

In the light of the recent announcement that MPs on the health and social care committee are to open an inquiry into assisted dying this year. However, I do not agree with her conclusion, which seems to be that, as it’s difficult to provide appropriate legal protections, we shouldn’t try. Yes, it’s difficult, as it’s bound to be with such a fundamental moral issue.

 

All the more reason for having an open debate and putting great efforts into protecting the rights of those who want control over their lives, including the time and manner of their dying.

 

Question:

Dont we all deserve the right to say how and when to call it a day ?

[ikke1959]

I can't agree more... We all know that there is time we have to die... Nobody lives for ever.

And as long as we are in good shape no problems. But I have seen many people suffering from cancer, or accidents, with no hope for cure. And it should be possible to decide that it is better to take out the plug. Why would we want someone to suffer?? It is not because we love them so much and we don't want to loose them, as we all know we all have to go. So please I personally want a good life and if I am in a condition that it hopeless, put a bit more morphine in the next injection,or take out the plug. I go for quality of life not length. It is humanity and not egoistic to keep people alive for suffering..Here in Thailand it is a big issue, because it is be seen as murder, But I think that the Buddha will see it different, and as a good deed. But especially here is a big step to go 

[Lee65]

2 hours ago, Black Ops said:

Dont we all deserve the right to say how and when to call it a day ?

Yeah.  And also the right to change our decision afterwards.

[MicroB]

What about Dementia? Were you really of sound mind when you decided you wanted to end it all, or did you come under undue pressure from family members who just wanted rid of you? It happens.

 

I've no issue with suicide, and don't take a Catholic view of it. I've an issue when you ask a doctor to help you on it. Doctors should of course have the right to say No, I'm not going to help you. But what of those who enter the profession because it will give them the opportunity to end someone's life; Dr Shipmans without the profit motive. People like that do exist, and are drawn to professions that give them the opportunity. There was a recent case of an American nurse, William Melchert-Dinkel, who online groomed troubled people to take their own lives.

 

Dutch reflections indicate the moral complexity once euthanasia becomes institutionalised. Hospitals become places where you go to be cured, to die, to be killed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/17/assisted-dying-euthanasia-netherlands

 

[save the frogs]

not for anyone who wants to commit suicide.

 

[Jerno]

Yes, we should have the right to choose. Religions, politicians, or "Society" should not dictate one's personal situation and choice. Far too many people getting involved in other people's private businesses.  Dr. assisted departure makes it safer and better than suicide.

[LaosLover]

19 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

But I think that the Buddha will see it different, and as a good deed. But especially here is a big step to go 

 Big-B was very down on suicide. You'd be lucky to come back as smegma. 

 

I agree on the right to die, but only philosophically, not practically.

 

I've now been in 3 "kill me when it gets bad" situations. Every time, at Fentanyl cocktail-time, it was "N-n-not so fast, I want to finish watching Breaking Bad". It's a tiny % of people who really do want to end their lives early. 

 

In the states, we have assisted suicide by stealth. It's called the hospice system. When you're suffering, they will keep on upping the morphine IV drip -until eventually you just pass on over.

 

In the UK too. I prefer that guilt-free method on this thorny issue.

[Shop mak]

Yes, for all with terminal illness. No life to spend last years bedridden, with a iv giving morphine with a click on a button.

 

Yes for the many with chronic pain, that opioids can't get under control.

 

Yes, for those with previous suicide attempt, many will attempt again and again (sadly seen it up close) Controversal group, I admit that.

 

Those of us who also lived previously in poorer country than Thailand, and seen with own eyes how extremely sick people in ER on their death bed, don't even get any opioids, and last days is a living hell - Absolutely Yes.

[Hummin]

Not possibles  in a Buddhist country, do to strong belief in karma, and the suffering you have in this life, will continue in next life if interrupted!  
 

Myself, is up for any quick fix if necessary. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:30 PM, MicroB said:

What about Dementia? Were you really of sound mind when you decided you wanted to end it all, or did you come under undue pressure from family members who just wanted rid of you? It happens.

Which is why it's important to make a living will.

 

Re the OP, yes, and for any reason at all, so long as not coerced and a panel of psychologists agree in right mind.

 

If that existed, I'd be off to LOS to spend all my remaining money having a really fun time and when the cash ran out pill time and into the fire with my dead body.

I always wanted to die in LOS for last 30 years.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:52 PM, save the frogs said:

not for anyone who wants to commit suicide.

 

You saying it's not their life to do with as they will?

Why is it up to anyone else?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:30 PM, MicroB said:

Dutch reflections indicate the moral complexity once euthanasia becomes institutionalised. Hospitals become places where you go to be cured, to die, to be killed.

 

IMO no moral complexity. People want to die will attempt but many fail and end up worse off.

It's our life and should be up to us when to end it, not some self important busybodies think they know it all.

[save the frogs]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You saying it's not their life to do with as they will?

Why is it up to anyone else?

some teens may want to commit suicide because their bf broke up with them or because a nirvana song inspired them.

some people need guidance, not an easy way out. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/10/2023 at 1:03 PM, save the frogs said:

some teens may want to commit suicide because their bf broke up with them or because a nirvana song inspired them.

some people need guidance, not an easy way out. 

If they are going to commit suicide because a BF broke up with them they must be incredibly fragile.

Can't remember how many times my heart was broken but never considered offing myself as a result and most would be the same IMO.

 

It's a parent's job to guide their children.

 

Anyway, I'm not saying anyone can just go to a chemist and get the offing pills. One would have to convince a panel of psychologists that one really did want to die, and not for the proverbial boyfriend breakup or a sad song, that will be forgotten next week.

I am saying that one shouldn't have to be in utter agony to be able to get a pain free exit.

I have that opinion because someone that is serious will try anyway and may fail badly, ending up far worse off, and a burden for the state to support. If it was easy to do, I wouldn't be posting about it.

[GammaGlobulin]

The REAL problem is that this problem will never be solved to the satisfaction of the majority, or the minority.

 

This is why:  I just hope I can live in the woods, some place in the forest, where nobody tells me what to do, and when I don't need to live any longer.

 

There is just too much intrusion of others' beliefs on my life.

 

I guess I will know when I want to call it quits.

 

And, when this day comes, I just hope I will be able to buy a huge helping of Nembutal, which, as we all know, is the drug of choice.

 

Out in the Woods, I wish I were!

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

10 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The REAL problem is that this problem will never be solved to the satisfaction of the majority, or the minority.

 

This is why:  I just hope I can live in the woods, some place in the forest, where nobody tells me what to do, and when I don't need to live any longer.

 

There is just too much intrusion of others' beliefs on my life.

 

I guess I will know when I want to call it quits.

 

And, when this day comes, I just hope I will be able to buy a huge helping of Nembutal, which, as we all know, is the drug of choice.

 

Out in the Woods, I wish I were!

 

 

 

Why does Society, a society which truly does not care whether or not I live or die, still insist on regulating my expiration date?

 

SUCH HYPOCRISY, is just so asenine.

 

Sometimes, civilized society just totally disgusts me...

If you know what I mean.

 

If you don't understand, I wish I could sing it to you....

 

SILENCE is Golden.....when the time is right for you!

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

19 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Why does Society, a society which truly does not care whether or not I live or die, still insist on regulating my expiration date?

 

SUCH HYPOCRISY, is just so asenine.

 

Sometimes, civilized society just totally disgusts me...

If you know what I mean.

 

If you don't understand, I wish I could sing it to you....

 

SILENCE is Golden.....when the time is right for you!

 

 

 

To paraphrase the Great Chicago Transit Authority:  DEATH is Just the BEGINNING.

 

Believe it!

 

I wish I could sing it to you!

 

 

[Enoon]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:10 AM, Lee65 said:

Yeah.  And also the right to change our decision afterwards.

After you're dead?

 

 

[Enoon]

 

Nature already "chooses" when we should die......but we intervene.

 

All that is required is for us to have the option to go with natures choice, and make it as peaceful, painless and stressless as possible.

 

It is the people around the chosen person who need the real help....a greater understanding of self and its place in eternity.

 

We are not central and indispensable to eternity......to believe that we are is the infants way of "being".

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

 

Somebody posting this tune to YT cut this song off at the hip, before it was done....

 

Such is life.

Such is life that life presupposes death.

 

Without death, there could be no life.

Without death, there could be no evolution,

Biologically speaking.

 

 

 

[bendejo]

An old saying:  the only way to cheat death is to take your own life.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

After you're dead?

 

 

When you are dead you won't care.

That's like saying the world would be a worse place if so or so hadn't been born- we wouldn't know what they did, so irrelevant.

[wwest5829]

7 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Nature already "chooses" when we should die......but we intervene.

 

All that is required is for us to have the option to go with natures choice, and make it as peaceful, painless and stressless as possible.

 

It is the people around the chosen person who need the real help....a greater understanding of self and its place in eternity.

 

We are not central and indispensable to eternity......to believe that we are is the infants way of "being".

 

 

This I also believe. Far too many are motivated by human emotion supported, ironically, by religious teachings to preserve life at any cost. Foolish ... my decision ... allow me to pass over in peace and not put a burden on others.

[Klonko]

Assisted dying is taboo in buddhistic Thailand. In case of need, will I still be able to fly back to my home country with its flexible rules? On the positive side, I will be taken care of physically and emotionally much better here, at a fraction of the cost. I will prefer dying here if the suffering is timewise limited

[sqwakvfr]

Switzerland has a program that is excellent.  It is completely legal and one's choice is documented on video.  A nurse oversees the process.  I saw a documentary on this several years ago and as i recall the program is called "Dignitas".  An American with ALS went to Switzerland and ended his life there.  It was as the name implies done with dignity.  

 

If I was in a similar position then I would want the same.

[Klonko]

12 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Switzerland has a program that is excellent.  It is completely legal and one's choice is documented on video.  A nurse oversees the process.  I saw a documentary on this several years ago and as i recall the program is called "Dignitas".  An American with ALS went to Switzerland and ended his life there.  It was as the name implies done with dignity.  

 

If I was in a similar position then I would want the same.

There are two organizations in Switzerland, Dignitas and Exit, both private associations.  While Exit is considered reputable but does not serve death tourists, Dignitas also serves death tourists but has been publicly criticized for its policies and motivation.

[Enoon]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:32 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

When you are dead you won't care.

That's like saying the world would be a worse place if so or so hadn't been born- we wouldn't know what they did, so irrelevant.

 

It was a sarcastic comment.

 

ie. "You mean you want to change your decision after you're dead?"

 

Geddit?

 

PS Don't bother with pills unless used to reduce anxiety, as part of the "ceremony".  There will be some obviously.......like you got before that first skydive..........or whatever other great step you took beyond your everyday experience.

 

DAREST THOU NOW O SOUL.

 

DAREST thou now O soul,

Walk out with me toward the unknown region,

Where neither ground is for the feet nor any path to follow?

 

No map there, nor guide,

Nor voice sounding, nor touch of human hand,

Nor face with blooming flesh, nor lips, nor eyes, are in that land.

 

I know it not O soul,

Nor dost thou, all is a blank before us,

All waits undream'd of in that region, that inaccessible land.

 

Till when the ties loosen,

All but the ties eternal, Time and Space,

Nor darkness, gravitation, sense, nor any bounds bounding us.

 

Then we burst forth, we float,

In Time and Space O soul, prepared for them,

Equal, equipt at last, (O joy! O fruit of all!) them to fulfil O
soul.

 

Walt Whitman

 

 

[Enoon]

?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

It was a sarcastic comment.

 

ie. "You mean you want to change your decision after you're dead?"

 

Geddit?

 

PS Don't bother with pills unless used to reduce anxiety, as part of the "ceremony".  There will be some obviously.......like you got before that first skydive..........or whatever other great step you took beyond your everyday experience.

 

DAREST THOU NOW O SOUL.

 

DAREST thou now O soul,

Walk out with me toward the unknown region,

Where neither ground is for the feet nor any path to follow?

 

No map there, nor guide,

Nor voice sounding, nor touch of human hand,

Nor face with blooming flesh, nor lips, nor eyes, are in that land.

 

I know it not O soul,

Nor dost thou, all is a blank before us,

All waits undream'd of in that region, that inaccessible land.

 

Till when the ties loosen,

All but the ties eternal, Time and Space,

Nor darkness, gravitation, sense, nor any bounds bounding us.

 

Then we burst forth, we float,

In Time and Space O soul, prepared for them,

Equal, equipt at last, (O joy! O fruit of all!) them to fulfil O
soul.

 

Walt Whitman

 

 

Nice poem, but as I believe our soul comes from God and after death returns to God it'll be more like going home.