Germany set to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, Der Spiegel reports

[Scott]

 

 

Germany is set to send its sought-after Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine to help bolster the country’s war effort, Der Spiegel reported on Tuesday evening, attributing to unnamed sources. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has decided to deliver the battle tanks following “months of debate,” according to the German news outlet’s exclusive report.

The German parliament is due to debate the contentious issue on Wednesday morning. Deciding to send them would be a landmark moment in the West’s support for Kyiv that follows days of intense pressure on Berlin from some of its NATO partners.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/europe/germany-leopard-2-tanks-ukraine-announcement-intl/index.html

[Tug]

Wonderful news!slava Ukraine ???????? 

[Jingthing]

Great news. 

Time is of the essence.

Western investment in beating fascist genocidal Russia is the best investment they will ever make. 

Nip these batards in the bud. 

You can't negotiate with them.

They just see that as weakness. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Jingthing

[Mickeymaus]

Very interesting strategy. If the last Ukrainian soldier is dead who will fight then? The West? 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Mickeymaus said:

Very interesting strategy. If the last Ukrainian soldier is dead who will fight then? The West? 

I'd be more worried about the Russian conscripts being sent into the meat grinder by fascist Putin. Russia invaded. Ukraine wants to be independent of Russia. I hope that's OK with you. They need the west's help and there is no shame in that.

[thaibeachlovers]

I find it somewhat strange that it's thought a few tanks will make the difference. Thousands certainly would, but is the west going to send thousands?

 

For those that don't actually know much about tanks other than in movies here is an informative web site

https://kyivindependent.com/national/how-many-tanks-does-russia-really-have

However, we can not expect Russia to run critically low on tanks anytime soon.

Despite heavy losses, Russia still has enough machines to continue waging its war for years.

 

and another ( I had to delete one sentence to keep the quote with 3 sentences )

https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks

The United States has supplied Ukraine with thousands of Javelins, the anti-tank missiles that have become the iconic weapon of the war, but the U.S. inventory is dwindling. The United States has probably given about one-third of its stock to Ukraine.

............................................

Production of new missiles is slow, and it will take years to replenish stocks.

Edited January 24, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[Mickeymaus]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'd be more worried about the Russian conscripts being sent into the meat grinder by fascist Putin. Russia invaded. Ukraine wants to be independent of Russia. I hope that's OK with you. They need the west's help and there is no shame in that.

I am not for Russia and I understand your point. But I doubt that the Ukraine will ever WIN this war. The good thing is that Russia obviously never had a working strategy for this war. Otherwise these tanks and all the other western weapons would never arrive in the Ukraine. 

[SunnyinBangrak]

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

 

[Scott]

There is also this topic:

 

 

[rabas]

11 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

There are no legitimate targets in Putin's criminal war.

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

 

I suspect you're the one lacking understanding, in 2022 Germany provided  €2.24 billion including anti-aircraft tanks, multiple rocket launchers, the IRIS-T air defense system and self-propelled howitzers, among other pieces of military equipment to Ukraine. In 2023 they've already announced an extra €1bn spring military aid package. Now we have the tanks. Which also paves the way for other countries with Leopards to send theirs.

[Northstar1]

14 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

 

I can only hope that Russia makes the mistake of attacking a NATO country. Then we can give the Ivan’s exactly what they deserve! It’s time we dealt with this country once and for all

[SunnyinBangrak]

Just now, Northstar1 said:

I can only hope that Russia makes the mistake of attacking a NATO country. Then we can give the Ivan’s exactly what they deserve! It’s time we dealt with this country once and for all

An end to life on earth is not a good thing, no matter how much you loath Russia. Please try to keep things into perspective. Peace is the only meaningful goal, all wars are bad. Failure to negotiate and warped media narratives misinforming citizens of both countries take most blame.

[Bkk Brian]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I find it somewhat strange that it's thought a few tanks will make the difference. Thousands certainly would, but is the west going to send thousands?

 

For those that don't actually know much about tanks other than in movies here is an informative web site

https://kyivindependent.com/national/how-many-tanks-does-russia-really-have

However, we can not expect Russia to run critically low on tanks anytime soon.

Despite heavy losses, Russia still has enough machines to continue waging its war for years.

 

and another ( I had to delete one sentence to keep the quote with 3 sentences )

https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks

The United States has supplied Ukraine with thousands of Javelins, the anti-tank missiles that have become the iconic weapon of the war, but the U.S. inventory is dwindling. The United States has probably given about one-third of its stock to Ukraine.

............................................

Production of new missiles is slow, and it will take years to replenish stocks.

I find it somewhat strange that it's thought a few tanks will make the difference. Thousands certainly would, but is the west going to send thousands?

 

What makes you think the west needs to send thousands? Ukraine itself mentioned the figure of 300 as being enough. Even 100 will make some difference.

[kwonitoy]

26 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

 

If nothing the Germans are methodical to the extreme

And what do the Germans have to be worried about?

A land war in Europe that russia has ignited?

Those weapons were stockpiled in case of an attack from russia.

Use them, Use them all, Use them effectively, only kill the russians that refuse to leave Ukraine soil

 

Slava Ukraine

 

[Mickeymaus]

2 minutes ago, Northstar1 said:

I can only hope that Russia makes the mistake of attacking a NATO country. Then we can give the Ivan’s exactly what they deserve! It’s time we dealt with this country once and for all

Then we could have a world war. I am not sure if you are aware of the consequences. Today's world is much more interconnected than during the last world wars. The economies of many countries would collapse because they need resources of other countries. This creates total chaos. And China might not watch this development without participating. Many people will lose everything. And you may no longer have internet and you may no longer be able to travel to Thailand.... Do you really want this? 

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.

 

27. You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article. Content in the public domain is limited to the same restrictions.

https://aseannow.com/terms/

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said:

Then we could have a world war. I am not sure if you are aware of the consequences. Today's world is much more interconnected than during the last world wars. The economies of many countries would collapse because they need resources of other countries. This creates total chaos. And China might not watch this development without participating. Many people will lose everything. And you may no longer have internet and you may no longer be able to travel to Thailand.... Do you really want this? 

The longer I read this thread the more I'm convinced that some on it get their ideas of war from movies. War is always messy and rarely goes the way it is intended. A large part of winning is down to blind luck, rather than intent.

I could use examples from previous wars but that would be off topic.

[bannork]

1 hour ago, Mickeymaus said:

Very interesting strategy. If the last Ukrainian soldier is dead who will fight then? The West? 

Ukrainian women. They don't want to live under the yoke of Russian genocide.

[bannork]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for that post- much sense there. Unfortunately it's so much more "satisfying" for some to beat the drums and call the troops to war, war, war. That would have been of not too much significance pre 1945, but now a misstep can lead to nuclear winter and a reset for planet earth without humans.

I have no descendants to suffer, but surely those that do should be less keen to see them do so? Does anyone believe in their heart that if Russia is faced with destruction they will not trigger MAD?

Nobody is threatening Russia. Russia brutally invaded a sovereign country which is kicking back, fighting for its independence.

All Russia has to do is retreat back to its borders and the war is over.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

Nobody is threatening Russia. Russia brutally invaded a sovereign country which is kicking back, fighting for its independence.

All Russia has to do is retreat back to its borders and the war is over.

 

 

Dreaming is nice, but back in the real world..............................

[Tug]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

 

The Germans have been supporting Ukraine since Putin launched this fiasco Germany is a member of nato if Putin attacks Germany that is a direct attack on nato,Russia would be run out of all of Ukraine within weeks he is failing in Ukraine allready how do you think he will fare against all of Europe and the west no sir I think Putin will just grind on getting Russians killed and killing Ukrainians his war of conquest has failed allready his legacy will be that of an murderous idiot who brought much misery on Ukraine and Russia 

[Pattaya Spotter]

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

[bannork]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dreaming is nice, but back in the real world..............................

Putin has been pushing all your buttons, tbl. You're so fearful of being nuked by the bare chested horse rider, you surrender at once.

Stand up to the bully. Nearly all of Europe is 

 

[LosLobo]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

Despicable ? How so? What has Germany's history last century got to do with this?

Edited January 25, 2023 by LosLobo

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, bannork said:

Putin has been pushing all your buttons, tbl. You're so fearful of being nuked by the bare chested horse rider, you surrender at once.

Stand up to the bully. Nearly all of Europe is 

 

You think they won't use them if it came to it? I do. End of humanity.

[bannork]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You think they won't use them if it came to it? I do. End of humanity.

You'll survive on a Thai beach you love, just hone your fishing skills for food.

You say if it came to it, but what does that mean? No one is threatening to invade Russia.

[bannork]

23 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

What? Is Germany invading Russia? I must have misread the news.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Northstar1 said:

I can only hope that Russia makes the mistake of attacking a NATO country. Then we can give the Ivan’s exactly what they deserve! It’s time we dealt with this country once and for all

What a stupid comment!

Just in case you missed it, Putin has nuclear weapons, a lot of them. What do you think he will do if "we dealt with this country once and for all"?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Scott said:

Germany is set to send

When?

A few days ago, I read an article about how long this will/would take.

Germany won't send the tanks which are currently used in their army. They will, if at all, send tanks from storage or ask the manufacturer to send tanks. This will take months - best case.