Pattaya operating at near full capacity

[Skallywag]

On 1/28/2023 at 8:21 AM, skorp13 said:

 I live in a Thai area of Pattaya where there are probably 7 hotels that catered to the Chinese tourisits. Including 3 hotels right behind my house where buses used to run non stop. They are all closed. Yes the town is busy and traffic is bad but not to pre cpvid levels

According to BKK post, February 6th is when the first Chinese tour groups are coming.  Likely those hotels are getting ready. 

Have you not seen any activity at the closed hotels near you that cater to the tour groups?

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, kinyara said:

I'm not solely focussed on tourist numbers, as I said and as you quoted me I have not yet seen any official baht figures reported yet for this high season. I presume you haven't either so don't have any value or actual factual knowledge to add to that aspect of the discussion. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair play.

 

The last figures I saw, from memory, were a few years ago.  I seem to remember there was some debate on this forum as to the accuracy of what tourists spend, per capita, per day, in Thailand. 

 

The high figure may have included accommodation, possibly even air fares.  So much of the hospitality industry in Thailand operates in the cash economy, thus, difficult to assess.  They use Visa and MasterCard receipts for some figures as well, but those figures do not paint the whole picture. 

 

Here's an article where they are expecting 80% of pre covid revenue.  Can businesses survive with 20% less revenue? 

 

With covid all but over, as far as restrictions are concerned, I gather the estimated 20% loss of revenue is about people having no money from job loss etc during covid.  

 

No mention of high inflation, rising interest rates, higher cost of living, more expensive air fares etc.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Travel-Leisure/Thailand-says-2023-tourism-revenue-to-be-80-of-pre-COVID-level

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

some restaurant owners have been having 'financial problems'.

 

"financial problems" = going broke.  Notice I said, "going" not "are." 

 

6 hours ago, newnative said:

In any case, I still prefer hard statistics, not someone's opinion or observation on a subject.

 

Well, here's her "hard statistics."  Do you need it in numbers?  Will words not suffice? 

 

"What she said was things have been 'quiet' and some restaurant owners have been having 'financial problems'.  She also said that some restaurants have not 'fully recovered'."

 

 

6 hours ago, newnative said:

you said in another post that McDonald's had put all the other hamburger shops in Orlando out of business. 

 

I have never been to Orlando.  I have no idea if there were hamburger shops there pre or post McDonalds coming to Orlando.  Can you quote my post for this? 

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

No, YOUR figures are not inflated, of course. They are totally real, 'cause you know. So, again, what are they? 2019 - 2022.

 

Irrelevant. 2019 - 2022. Still waiting. Guess it was just the usual hot air. How surprising. Again, why not just take a course in basic economics to help you answer all your portentous questions yourself, without wasting our time, and then come back to post something possibly useful? 

 

<further nonsense snipped>

 

 

 

 

If Pattaya is "operating at capacity" as per the thread title, how is it there is another thread running where a restaurant owner is saying she is "quiet?"  Can you explain that?

 

Could it be, Pattaya actually isn't "operating at full capacity?"  

 

Which thread to believe? 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Leaver

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

Good. Except, for some reason we still don't have your spend numbers 2019 - 2022 as defined above. Where are they?

 

What spend would there be over covid?  You are misquoting me. 

 

The last spend figures I saw were some years ago.  I mentioned it in another post earlier.  They were quite high, per capita, which was the cause of some debate on this forum. 

 

Can you even give weight to any spend figures from TAT? 

 

What about the restaurant owner in the other thread running.  She's on the ground in business here and has told it as it is.  Are you suggesting she is lying?  

 

TAT can release any figures they like, but that doesn't help the businesses that are going broke. 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Leaver

[anrcaccount]

On 1/28/2023 at 3:06 AM, webfact said:

The Association attributed the increase in tourism to the Thai government's efforts to control the spread of COVID-19, including the implementation of strict health protocols and the vaccination of key workers in the tourism industry.

Ha, this has absolutely nothing to do with it!!! 

 

Most tourists don't even give covid a thought anymore, not even a minor consideration in just about anyone's travel plans.

 

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I guess you haven't tried to get a seat in many of the better walking street bars lately. They are generally full or close to it. Last night I needed to sit near the door in pinup until someone left from a better seat. There was a competition between me and a Korean to grab the newly vacated seat but I won. XS was likewise full and I had to wait for a seat to open up. In Dollhouse downstairs I had to sit up against the dance floor on a stool which my back doesn't like.

 

I only go to Walking Street every few weeks or so, and only for a few hours.  I prefer LK Metro for gogo's.  I usually frequent Walking Street more often when I have friends here on holidays. 

 

I accept what you say that some select gogo's are busy, as these were your observations, but there are a lot of businesses down there.  What about the big nightclubs?  We have already heard from a restaurant owner in another thread that things aren't great. 

 

Once again, pre covid, 2019, LK Metro and Soi Baukhao were already taking customers away from Walking Street.  Why would that change in 2023, and I mean customers spending money inside a business, not walking along taking photos. 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Leaver

[ozimoron]

32 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I only go to Walking Street every few weeks or so, and only for a few hours.  I prefer LK Metro for gogo's.  I usually frequent Walking Street more often when I have friends here on holidays. 

 

I accept what you say that some select gogo's are busy, as these were your observations, but there are a lot of businesses down there.  What about the big nightclubs?  We have already heard from a restaurant owner in another thread that things aren't great. 

 

Once again, pre covid, 2019, LK Metro and Soi Baukhao were already taking customers away from Walking Street.  Why would that change in 2023, and I mean customers spending money inside a business, not walking along taking photos. 

 

I don't believe that LK Metro is taking away much of the Asian market from Walking Street since the quality of dancers there are not great this year. It's not really in WS either but certain bars are much better than others. Soi Buakhao bars are atrocious except for drinkers. I also don't spend a lot of time in the bars but they seem petty busy. It's likely to be mostly the ones who are paying top dollar for the best dancers as well. Inside the bars are predominantly Asian customers while outside it's mainly Indian. I don't know about the clubs. I think Republic gets pretty full. I was last there a few months ago and it was full on a Saturday night. I'm only out on weekends.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

What spend would there be over covid?  You are misquoting me. 

 

The spend during the years 2019 - 2022 includes COVID. And we'll need your numbers, since you know, to determine the relative amounts and trend. No, here's what you said:

 

On 1/28/2023 at 3:00 PM, Leaver said:

The numbers are up, but the spend is down.  This was happening in 2019 as well. 

So you've been asked multiple times, not just by me, to tell us all your numbers (including those for the spend). The spend is the average amount of BAHT SPENT per tourist, per time frame (day), by group; and those are expressed in numbers, for example: average Russian tourist, B2000/day. You're claiming it's down, so let's see your comparative numbers through the years. And you can include the domestic tourists.

 

But you're just going to dance around, deflect, claim misinterpretation, change the subject, ignore the question, bicker, and all the usual in a Leaver Loop. And you'll continue that forever until a bunch of posts get removed (as a few times before) or the thread closed.

 

You dunno any numbers, haven't a clue about the spends. In fact, I don't think you know what spend is, even though I've defined it for you. 

 

As expected. It could not be otherwise.

 

I'm outta here. My point's been made, enough time-wasting.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by BigStar

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

"financial problems" = going broke.  Notice I said, "going" not "are." 

 

 

Well, here's her "hard statistics."  Do you need it in numbers?  Will words not suffice? 

 

"What she said was things have been 'quiet' and some restaurant owners have been having 'financial problems'.  She also said that some restaurants have not 'fully recovered'."

 

 

 

I have never been to Orlando.  I have no idea if there were hamburger shops there pre or post McDonalds coming to Orlando.  Can you quote my post for this? 

   No, going broke is not the same as having financial problems.  And, she doesn't even specifically say she, herself, is having financial problems--she refers to 'some restaurant owners'.   In another post, you also said she was 'hemorrhaging money every month'--something else that she never said.  It's your pattern of misquoting, selectively editing, and putting your words and thoughts in someone else's mouth--you do it with me all the time.  Not a good look.

    You've never been to Orlando and 'have no idea if there were hamburger shops' but that didn't stop you from making the statement.  I went back and found it and quoted it several weeks ago--I think in the thread 'How are the bars, restaurants, etc. doing'.  Feel free to go back and look for it yourself.  

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, newnative said:

I have been 'vocal' that supply and demand will eventually sort things out if there is too much of this and too little of that. 

 

Your survival of the fittest in relation to supply and demand here doesn't work. 

 

Normal market forces do not function as they should in Pattaya.  If they did, all of those "hobby bars" would be closed.  How would the city of Pattaya look then, with shuttered building after shuttered building along many streets?

 

There's no guarantee this doesn't happen in the next 5 years or so as dreamers become thin on the ground.

 

18 hours ago, newnative said:

I have tried to explain to Leaver why the number of studio condos for sale matters not a whit when I am selling a 2 bedroom condo, also without success. 

 

Perhaps you could try to explain it to the guy trying to sell his studio condo, I'm sure it matters more than a whit to him. 

 

What advice do you have for him, other than to offer it at 500k baht, accept a loss, and walk away?  

 

 

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, Skallywag said:

According to BKK post, February 6th is when the first Chinese tour groups are coming.  Likely those hotels are getting ready. 

Have you not seen any activity at the closed hotels near you that cater to the tour groups?

 

There's no room for them on the 6th Feb.  Pattaya is already "operating at capacity." 

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, Seppius said:

That picture is from 2018, the beach has been expanded since then

 

 

 

Wasn't Pattaya booming in 2018? 

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Pattaya doesn't follow normal demand and supply principles, one poor performing bar sells to a poor sucker who wants to live the dream of minging bar ownership and bar girl girlfriend, they run out of money and sell to the next sucker and so it continues, that's why there is oversupply of bars, same story Indian restaurants now

 

I concur. 

 

Many are propped up with funds from abroad. 

 

The lights are on, but they run at a loss. 

 

I think "poor suckers" will be in short supply in the future.  Not like in the past.  Time will tell. 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

Personal observations have their place, of course. 

 

Have you personally observed the amount of properties on the market here, and all the new construction?  I posted a link to one wesite that have over 500 condo's for sale, and that's just one website.  Did you personally observe the website? 

 

Thousands on the market, with more and more being built, and you want to say Pattaya has a healthy property market.  Laughable.    

 

6 hours ago, newnative said:

I think hard statistics can be meaningful.  Less than 500,000 international tourists in 2021.  About 11 million in 2022.  531 billion baht spent in Thailand by tourists from one country in 2019.  Both stats are meaningful, in my opinion. 

 

They are only meaningful if they are accurate and can be relied up.

 

As the other member said, and to which you agreed, personal observations have their place, and I would suggest, they come from people "on the ground" and not from a government agency or association with an agenda.

 

 

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Hotels (those that remained open)  were substantially lower as they struggled to have any customers beyond the Covid refugees.... beer bars were also cutting prices. Not sure it went far beyond that... some of the cheap eating places for farangs maybe, recall Robin Hood having some deals. 

 

Residential rents lowered considerably.  It was the great covid rent reshuffle / renegotiation here. 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Leaver

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, newnative said:

A number of the 7-11s in the north Pattaya area where my partner and I were living at the time closed down.  There was just too much supply and not enough demand from local residents and domestic tourists to support all of them. 

 

So, you saw first hand how supply and demand in the retail space works, yet, you refute if they built another one or two shopping malls here that it would effect the profits of the shops across all the malls.

 

To counter act your continual contradiction on this point, you put forward your "survival of the fittest" economic theory, and when it comes to retail, I agree with it, but where we disagree is where you say no shops will close in the other malls because there's plenty of demand to go around, yet, you have seen first hand 7/11's close due to lower demand.  Of course, covid played a big part in this, but say three more 7/11's opened in your area before covid, it's ridiculous to say the profits of the other 7/11's will not be affected by their opening. 

 

Basically, if you build more 7/11's, the demand for each 7/11 will be lower.  Yes, rocket science, I know.   

 

Build more shopping malls, and there's a big one right in the middle of Central Pattaya already planned, and guess what, you spread the demand out, causing it to be lower for all. 

 

Using your "survival of the fittest" economic theory, say the new mall is so big, so nice, so shiny, that it doesn't have gold plated public toilets, it has platinum plated public toilets, hence all the "demand" now goes to the new mall. 

 

You are happy because it proves your theory correct on this forum that the fittest survive, not that I disagreed with it, but now there's an empty shopping mall that's falling into disrepair. 

 

Your argument then is, see, Pattaya is thriving so much it can support another shopping mall, which is of course wrong, because one shopping mall is now a ghost town. 

 

Your argument is then, well, the old mall should compete and install platinum public toilets as well, but what you fail to realize is the demand is still the same.  The new mall took 100% of the customers because they had platinum toilets, so to compete, the old mall installed them as well and got back a percentage of customers, but the total amount of customers still only equals 100%, and their numbers never changed.

 

Your argument then turns to future growth of Pattaya City, and once again I am in some agreement with you, however, let's approve the new mall when the demand is at a level to justify it, but it doesn't work that way in Thailand.

 

Now, your favorite topic is residential property, because you are a property flipper.  Those new condo blocks being build are like all the 7/11's in your area.  Just not enough demand for them all to survive.  In the case of the condo's, just not enough demand in the property market that properties hold their value as these new builds come onto the market, and guess what, more are starting construction on others, and more are planned for future construction. 

 

Your argument is, the platinum toilets in the condo's of the new block will see these condo's sell well, but you don't comment on the condo's down the road that don't sell because they don't have platinum toilets.  Once again, you suggest there's enough demand for a healthy Pattaya property market that all will sell, and I disagree with this, because as I type, there are already thousands of properties on the market here, as there was pre covid, so it's not a something caused by covid. 

 

At some point, there is market saturation, and in regards to property here, I would say it's well over that point, as can be seen with the time on market here.  People just can't sell. 

 

So next time you want to preach the Pattaya property market to those that refuse to convert, think about what happened to the 7/11's in your area, and how you are trying to sell their fate to those on this forum. 

[newnative]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Your survival of the fittest in relation to supply and demand here doesn't work. 

 

Normal market forces do not function as they should in Pattaya.  If they did, all of those "hobby bars" would be closed.  How would the city of Pattaya look then, with shuttered building after shuttered building along many streets?

 

There's no guarantee this doesn't happen in the next 5 years or so as dreamers become thin on the ground.

 

 

Perhaps you could try to explain it to the guy trying to sell his studio condo, I'm sure it matters more than a whit to him. 

 

What advice do you have for him, other than to offer it at 500k baht, accept a loss, and walk away?  

 

 

         If someone wants to own a vanity project and sustain losses rather than close, that's up to them.  Normal supply and demand functions in Pattaya, just like everywhere else.  I refer back to my recent post on 7-11s in the tourist area during covid.   If there is too much or too little of something, eventually it will get sorted out. 

       When a city is thriving, those closed store fronts will, at some point, be filled with other stores, catering to the current market demographic.  Or, they may get bulldozed and replaced with something else--lots of that happening in Pattaya.

       Next.  My partner and I have sold everything from a 24 sqm studio condo to a 3 bedroom 124 sqm oceanfront condo--and about everything in between.  And, a house.  In every case, the studio was not in competition with 3 bedrooms; the 3 bedroom was not in competition with 1 bedrooms, the 1 bedroom was not in competition with two bedrooms, and so on.

     The only competition was other similar-sized and priced condos for sale in that same area.  My advice to your studio condo owner would be the same as what we always follow:

      Declutter and remove any personal stuff--photos, bowling trophies, etc.   The buyer wants to picture himself in the condo, not you.  Take a hard look at the space from a buyer's viewpoint.

       Make sure everything is in working order, there is nothing broken or damaged, there is no peeling paint or wallpaper, etc., and the condo is kept spotless and ready to show at a few minutes notice.  That especially applies to the kitchen and baths.

        Do some homework on your competition.  What do they look like compared to yours?  What's the view compared to yours?  Higher or lower floor? Any extras they have?  What is their pricing?  All this can help you in your pricing, which is key and can sometimes be hard to pinpoint.  We leave some 'wiggle room' while still allowing for a profit but it's important to be realistic.   You can get some feedback on pricing from some of the listing realtors.

       Email good quality photos, including those of the condo project, and a good description, to all the agencies, starting with the ones closest to your property.  Try to hit them all--you never know who will have a client.  

        You can also post on other sites yourself, including Facebook, Craigslist, Hipflat, and others.  Let the condo office staff know it is for sale, too.  The key is getting your property out there, seen and known about.

        Unless you are in dire financial straits, it's important to be patient, if you can.  We have had condos sell quickly and we have had condos take a year or more to sell.  Patience is a virtue.

        And, usual disclaimer:  Renting is often the better choice for many here in Thailand, especially for those of the opinion that there's not much involved in the buying process and one can be 'flexible' about what they buy.

       

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Have you personally observed the amount of properties on the market here, and all the new construction?  I posted a link to one wesite that have over 500 condo's for sale, and that's just one website.  Did you personally observe the website? 

 

Thousands on the market, with more and more being built, and you want to say Pattaya has a healthy property market.  Laughable.    

 

 

They are only meaningful if they are accurate and can be relied up.

 

As the other member said, and to which you agreed, personal observations have their place, and I would suggest, they come from people "on the ground" and not from a government agency or association with an agenda.

 

 

     Yes, personal observations have their place, but not with something like statistics.   Someone 'on the ground'  making the observation that he has only seen Chinese shop at 7-11s and, therefore, Chinese tourists only benefit 7-11s, really is useless observation.  Give me actual stats.  You, yourself, are frequently focusing on one business, finding it not busy, and then asking if Pattaya is 'thriving', since this particular business isn't.   You need to look at the big picture, not one or two businesses.

     You have also made the observation that the 'numbers' were up but the 'spend' was down in 2019.  Again, just one person's observation.  How useful is that?  Where are your stats to back up your 'observation'?   Please don't do the usual cop out--you don't believe the stats.   That translates to:  I don't have any statistics to back up my observation--I'm just blowing my usual smoke and hoping nobody calls me on it.  (Hello, McDonalds and Orlando.)

     Yes, my partner and I do some personal observation of the property market in Pattaya.  We visit about every new big condo project that comes on the market, look at sample units for sale, check the number of bookings, talk to the sales staff, etc.   We chit chat with agents when we run into them.  I belong to a number of Facebook property groups and every morning I see listings from them on Facebook--helps keep current with samples of what's on the market, pricing, etc.  Lately we have been focusing on new housing projects on the Darkside, of which there are many.  In the past few weeks we have looked at a number of them.

     Meanwhile, how about you?  You're forever making your 'observations' on real estate.  Ever actually do any homework to back up your observations?  Several times I have invited you to actually go out and do some observation of your own.  Remember me asking you to check the percentage sold at the Riviera projects?  Or, any of the other projects that I listed in the post?  Ever actually do that to learn something on your own?  

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

So, you saw first hand how supply and demand in the retail space works, yet, you refute if they built another one or two shopping malls here that it would effect the profits of the shops across all the malls.

 

To counter act your continual contradiction on this point, you put forward your "survival of the fittest" economic theory, and when it comes to retail, I agree with it, but where we disagree is where you say no shops will close in the other malls because there's plenty of demand to go around, yet, you have seen first hand 7/11's close due to lower demand.  Of course, covid played a big part in this, but say three more 7/11's opened in your area before covid, it's ridiculous to say the profits of the other 7/11's will not be affected by their opening. 

 

Basically, if you build more 7/11's, the demand for each 7/11 will be lower.  Yes, rocket science, I know.   

 

Build more shopping malls, and there's a big one right in the middle of Central Pattaya already planned, and guess what, you spread the demand out, causing it to be lower for all. 

 

Using your "survival of the fittest" economic theory, say the new mall is so big, so nice, so shiny, that it doesn't have gold plated public toilets, it has platinum plated public toilets, hence all the "demand" now goes to the new mall. 

 

You are happy because it proves your theory correct on this forum that the fittest survive, not that I disagreed with it, but now there's an empty shopping mall that's falling into disrepair. 

 

Your argument then is, see, Pattaya is thriving so much it can support another shopping mall, which is of course wrong, because one shopping mall is now a ghost town. 

 

Your argument is then, well, the old mall should compete and install platinum public toilets as well, but what you fail to realize is the demand is still the same.  The new mall took 100% of the customers because they had platinum toilets, so to compete, the old mall installed them as well and got back a percentage of customers, but the total amount of customers still only equals 100%, and their numbers never changed.

 

Your argument then turns to future growth of Pattaya City, and once again I am in some agreement with you, however, let's approve the new mall when the demand is at a level to justify it, but it doesn't work that way in Thailand.

 

Now, your favorite topic is residential property, because you are a property flipper.  Those new condo blocks being build are like all the 7/11's in your area.  Just not enough demand for them all to survive.  In the case of the condo's, just not enough demand in the property market that properties hold their value as these new builds come onto the market, and guess what, more are starting construction on others, and more are planned for future construction. 

 

Your argument is, the platinum toilets in the condo's of the new block will see these condo's sell well, but you don't comment on the condo's down the road that don't sell because they don't have platinum toilets.  Once again, you suggest there's enough demand for a healthy Pattaya property market that all will sell, and I disagree with this, because as I type, there are already thousands of properties on the market here, as there was pre covid, so it's not a something caused by covid. 

 

At some point, there is market saturation, and in regards to property here, I would say it's well over that point, as can be seen with the time on market here.  People just can't sell. 

 

So next time you want to preach the Pattaya property market to those that refuse to convert, think about what happened to the 7/11's in your area, and how you are trying to sell their fate to those on this forum. 

    I'm not 'refuting' anything--just waiting for your list of the 700 stores T21 put out of business when it opened 700 new stores.  You preach doom and gloom but where is your evidence?   Yes, some 7-11s in the tourist areas closed during covid.  Likely most have or will reopen--supply and demand at work.  

    Will all 3 7-11s on the Darkside in close proximity to each other that I mentioned succeed?  Who knows?  As I said, we'll see.   Their 'fate' will be determined by supply and demand--and maybe customers being too lazy to cross the street.   In any case, I am likely to have at least one 7-11 nearby.   As you can probably tell, I am not losing sleep on it. 

     Also no sleep lost on the number of malls Pattaya has.  It all gets sorted out.  Will an older mall, not well-managed with, perhaps an unattractive mix and/or lack of stores fail at some point?  Perhaps.  It's business.  I know you'll respond, how heartless, but that's that.  It's the way business works.  And, hey, It might morph into something terrific and be a plus, instead of something marginal limping along.  Think positive sometime.  

   

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

         If someone wants to own a vanity project and sustain losses rather than close, that's up to them.  Normal supply and demand functions in Pattaya, just like everywhere else.  I refer back to my recent post on 7-11s in the tourist area during covid.   If there is too much or too little of something, eventually it will get sorted out. 

       When a city is thriving, those closed store fronts will, at some point, be filled with other stores, catering to the current market demographic.  Or, they may get bulldozed and replaced with something else--lots of that happening in Pattaya.

       Next.  My partner and I have sold everything from a 24 sqm studio condo to a 3 bedroom 124 sqm oceanfront condo--and about everything in between.  And, a house.  In every case, the studio was not in competition with 3 bedrooms; the 3 bedroom was not in competition with 1 bedrooms, the 1 bedroom was not in competition with two bedrooms, and so on.

     The only competition was other similar-sized and priced condos for sale in that same area.  My advice to your studio condo owner would be the same as what we always follow:

      Declutter and remove any personal stuff--photos, bowling trophies, etc.   The buyer wants to picture himself in the condo, not you.  Take a hard look at the space from a buyer's viewpoint.

       Make sure everything is in working order, there is nothing broken or damaged, there is no peeling paint or wallpaper, etc., and the condo is kept spotless and ready to show at a few minutes notice.  That especially applies to the kitchen and baths.

        Do some homework on your competition.  What do they look like compared to yours?  What's the view compared to yours?  Higher or lower floor? Any extras they have?  What is their pricing?  All this can help you in your pricing, which is key and can sometimes be hard to pinpoint.  We leave some 'wiggle room' while still allowing for a profit but it's important to be realistic.   You can get some feedback on pricing from some of the listing realtors.

       Email good quality photos, including those of the condo project, and a good description, to all the agencies, starting with the ones closest to your property.  Try to hit them all--you never know who will have a client.  

        You can also post on other sites yourself, including Facebook, Craigslist, Hipflat, and others.  Let the condo office staff know it is for sale, too.  The key is getting your property out there, seen and known about.

        Unless you are in dire financial straits, it's important to be patient, if you can.  We have had condos sell quickly and we have had condos take a year or more to sell.  Patience is a virtue.

        And, usual disclaimer:  Renting is often the better choice for many here in Thailand, especially for those of the opinion that there's not much involved in the buying process and one can be 'flexible' about what they buy.

       

 

Just more real estate talking the market up, mouth fill of marbles under water, waffle from you.  Most members on this forum are experienced enough to see through you. 

 

I wish you and your partner, whether that be business partner or romantic partner, all the best.  You will need it. 

 

I already know you are stuck with properties on your books that you can not offload.  It shows in the desperation of your posts. 

 

Everyone could see it was a bubble.  Why didn't you? 

 

 

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Yes, personal observations have their place, but not with something like statistics. 

 

Huh? 

 

Go on the record then.  What do YOU give more weight to, TAT's stats, or the observation from people on the ground?

 

Why don't you reply to members who have posted of their observations of quiet businesses here.  Will you call them all liars?

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

You have also made the observation that the 'numbers' were up but the 'spend' was down in 2019. 

 

I started the thread "Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent" back then because that's how bad things were here, pre covid.  Let me say that again, PRE COVID..

 

Along came covid, which disrupted the global economy for a few years, but now that covid in all but finished, you seem to think Pattaya's issue of pre covid have all disappeared.  That's fine, but where did they go? 

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Yes, my partner and I do some personal observation of the property market in Pattaya.  We visit about every new big condo project that comes on the market, look at sample units for sale, check the number of bookings, talk to the sales staff, etc.   We chit chat with agents when we run into them.  I belong to a number of Facebook property groups and every morning I see listings from them on Facebook--helps keep current with samples of what's on the market, pricing, etc.  Lately we have been focusing on new housing projects on the Darkside, of which there are many.  In the past few weeks we have looked at a number of them.

 

Obviously, and it shows in your posts.  You have skin in the game. 

 

Your posts go beyond discussion and border on marketing.

 

Who do you actually think you are selling property ownership in Pattaya to here?  Serious question. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Leaver

[kinyara]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Fair play.

 

The last figures I saw, from memory, were a few years ago.  I seem to remember there was some debate on this forum as to the accuracy of what tourists spend, per capita, per day, in Thailand. 

 

The high figure may have included accommodation, possibly even air fares.  So much of the hospitality industry in Thailand operates in the cash economy, thus, difficult to assess.  They use Visa and MasterCard receipts for some figures as well, but those figures do not paint the whole picture. 

 

Here's an article where they are expecting 80% of pre covid revenue.  Can businesses survive with 20% less revenue? 

 

With covid all but over, as far as restrictions are concerned, I gather the estimated 20% loss of revenue is about people having no money from job loss etc during covid.  

 

No mention of high inflation, rising interest rates, higher cost of living, more expensive air fares etc.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Travel-Leisure/Thailand-says-2023-tourism-revenue-to-be-80-of-pre-COVID-level

All I would say is they must be expecting a bumper revenue year from domestic tourism if they are expecting to hit 80% of 2019 levels, my reasoning being that their volume target for international tourists is only 25/39.8 = 63% and I don't see why they would expect a massive uplift in their spending behaviour even factoring in the impact of domestic inflation. I see 25 million foreign tourists as realistic but that 80% figure seems over-optimistic to me. 

 

 

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, hioctane said:

This Christmas? My friend was there for 10 days. He didn't prebook. He ended up having to bounce from hotel to hotel because he couldn't find a hotel in Central Pattaya that had a available room for his whole stay.

I was referring to Samui. 

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, hioctane said:

Massages were cutting their rates to 100 baht. TF prices were generally cheaper. Airbnb was cheaper. 

 

So basically we covered almost everything. Things were cheaper.

Yes you are correct... might have seen 99b massages somewhere once... post Covid many broke the 200b barrier and went to 300!

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

99 baht breakfast, I enjoyed it several times. Don't bother frequenting the place now as all I read on the restaurant reports is how high the RH prices are compared to other venues. I was getting my regular quality Bangkok hotels for between 450-600, outstanding value, now they are 3 times that. It was at least a good time to take advantage of what was on offer.

I stayed at the Rembrandt quite a few times for 1000 baht I think it was.. unbelievable bargain. As to the RH... I have since had a very good steak meal there but you are correct about the price. 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, internationalism said:

They are coming all the time, but don't stay for months. Just a few weeks holidays on package tours.

Not all of them.....many out shopping yesterday at Big-CX. People on short package tours don't have a need to do a big shop. And immigration is reported as busy with Russians doing extensions....again something I would not expect. 

[scubascuba3]

100 baht massages are still available as are 100 baht barbers and 99 baht breakfasts, you just need to make some effort and look

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Leaver said:

TAT can release any figures they like, but that doesn't help the businesses that are going broke. 

Since when did statistics help any business that was going broke.

If a business is in trouble it is up to the business owner to do something about it.

There will always be business successes and business failures, no government intervenes until failures predominate, and then it is the bigger picture.

Pattaya may be struggling but that does not equate to Chonburi struggling.

[newnative]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Huh? 

 

Go on the record then.  What do YOU give more weight to, TAT's stats, or the observation from people on the ground?

 

Why don't you reply to members who have posted of their observations of quiet businesses here.  Will you call them all liars?

 

 

I started the thread "Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent" back then because that's how bad things were here, pre covid.  Let me say that again, PRE COVID..

 

Along came covid, which disrupted the global economy for a few years, but now that covid in all but finished, you seem to think Pattaya's issue of pre covid have all disappeared.  That's fine, but where did they go? 

 

 

Obviously, and it shows in your posts.  You have skin in the game. 

 

Your posts go beyond discussion and border on marketing.

 

Who do you actually think you are selling property ownership in Pattaya to here?  Serious question. 

 

 

 

 

Everything already replied to in earlier posts.  You're just repeating yourself over and over.