Troublesome Neighbour

[recom273]

Can anyone explain where I legally stand on this matter?

 

I bought just under a rai of land over covid, when we first went to see the land, we called at a neighbors house to get the low down, a teacher nearing retirement - nice as pie. We asked about the adjoining land (1.5 Rai) which had been walled, grassed and planted but yet to be built on, no one knew the guy.

 

FF, We finally moved from the Deep South to Khon Kaen to begin our build - the house next door was now built and occupied. We called and spoke to the teacher again - they had had issues with the owner of the new built house - he has a land drain pipe that seems to flow with water all the time, emptying water onto the road. The owners solution was to put an angle pipe and direct his grey water onto our land. (He has cemented over the government ground at the front of his property)

 

We met with the owner of the new house, everything was nice, we were invited to see their house with the prospect of using the same contractor, no problem. Every time we were at our land they would drive, stop and ask how we are progressing. We never mentioned the pipe and water flowing to our land.

 

A few month later, we were backfilling the land, my wife moved the pipe to the direction of his .. he knew almost immediately and came charging out. Maybe the pipe is connected to a washing machine or shower, no one is sure. He accused me of doing it and ever since then he has been causing issues.

 

We built a rear boundary wall, my builder was a bit sloppy and he just presumed that it would be ok to use his corner post - he let him calculate the spans, build the footings before leaning over the wall and asked him what he thought he was doing using the post, the builder replied that in 30 years he had never experienced this kind of behavior. I needed to build another corner post adjacent to his.

 

We installed a metal pole to receive the power, on a corner of our land, the neighbour leans over and tells the builder he cant build the footing within 10 cm of his wall.

 

Now we have a full crew on the land - I am building a boundary wall and gate at the front. The earth is dirty and smelly due to his dumping of water, so I put the footings for one or two brick planter, to keep the water from our land, yet again he appears and tells the builder he cant build within 10cm of his property - this is government land. He shouldn't have concreted over it. 

 

What gives? We have a chanote line .. this seems to be on the edge of his wall, why is it always on me to be 10cm away from his wall? I dont understand. Shouldn't we both be 20cm away from each other? He should be 10cm away from the chanote line?

 

Just to see the level of childishness that he is at, yesterday he stood on the road and shouted to the builder that he wasn't happy about the surveyor spraying a red mark to set the level of the floor and told him to clean it off. The other neighbor (who also has a red mark on the back of their wall) is as good as gold, they allowed us to use their electricity and we split the bill - everyone other neighbor came to our "Sow Ek, Sow Tor" celebration - I hate these mumbo jumbo celebrations, but I was moved by how much the local village people love my wife, the locals all came out and participated, so we dont have a lack of support. We invited the neighbor but he didnt attend.

 

Am I going to live with this guy and and his 10cm rule for the rest of my living days? Am I going to have some small man leaning over my wall when I plant a hedge or lean a spade against the wall. I have no plans to build onto the wall, maybe just a 2 brick high planter to plant a hedge. How much control does this guy have over anything I do on my land?

 

The village headman knows the guy, he says he's a selfish idiot, but hasn't been involved and is the usual non-confrontational type (there seems to be no other issues in the village, just this one guy), the problematic neighbor has had a couple of run ins with the locals, including his assistant / village handyman who built a boundary wall. I'm sure he is breaking rules with by releasing grey water onto the soi, but I dont really care, as long as its not on my land - it creates a pool of green slime on the road, but we have all got to live together.

 

Sorry, for the long post, the guy is doing my brain in - the guy is behaving like a child. The situation is beyond solving, everyone else is at fault - the tessaban because they dont have mains drainage and never will have, the neighbors, the headman, me, my builder. Any advice welcome (other than sell the land and move)

 

I can't wait for the first day that the guinea fowl go out and over the wall to clean his grass, and he tells me to instruct my gang not to go onto his land.

[ikke1959]

Maybe go to a lawyer to find out wht the real law is... Most tis kind of people believe that Thailand is theirs and they have the rights and foreigners have other rights and they are the ones who make these laws..... Happy to hear he is the only troublesome neighbour..

[Netease]

Maybe offer to pay for half the wall, there is no 10cm rule

[jak2002003]

He will hate your Guinea fowl.  I used to have some and everyone hated them as they were so loud.  Even I hated them in the end and got rid of them.  

 

As for your teacher neighbour.  I'm afraid you will just have to put up with him.  Welcome to Thailand. ????

[realfunster]

You have my sympathy, sounds irritating !

 

If most of the fuss is around your house/land development, maybe it will quieten down as things nears completion ?

 

If I understand correctly, the gentlemen is a retired teacher ? This comes with some prestige/status in Thai society and he may be used to barking instructions and getting his own way. 

 

If you have a strong and objective feeling he is being unreasonable, I would not expect to be able to suddenly change this behaviour, or indeed at all.

 

I had an insufferable neighbour for several years and discussion, mediation, neighbourhood meetings, some verbal arguments and council involvement did nothing to solve it. Eventually, he moved away. Ultimately, we simply cannot "control" others behaviour unless it is in the realm of criminality, which I don't think this is. 

 

I would suggest a couple of options :

1) You find a method to park this away mentally and just accept it for what it is ("let it go"). You had many positive words about the support and friendship in the village, focus on that.  He may still continue to be an annoyance but you will be more at peace mentally and physically and may be able to gradually improve relations with your neighbour.

2) Next time he comes out give him the full verbal treatment. No violence of course but give him a strong and direct verbal outburst. In English is fine, he will get the message from your tone, volume and body language. Avoid using the f-word. That might give him a shake up that you are not to be taken as a soft touch and to back off. Of course, there's a fair chance it might also make things worse with him and also lower your standing in the village....

 

I wouldn't bother with any legal recourse, nothing will come of it accept worse relations with your neighbour. 

[Crossy]

"Tall walls make good neighbours", build your wall to the limits of what is permitted height wise then he won't be able to lean over it. Isolate yourself as much as possible and forget there's a neighbour on that side.

 

It's always unfortunate when this kind of thing gets toxic, and sadly, Thais can get vindictive!

 

It might be worth asking the village head if he will have a "quiet word" (our village head is a really nice guy who appreciates a bottle of the "good-stuff") but from what you've already said it's likely to fall on deaf ears anyway.

[recom273]

23 hours ago, realfunster said:

You have my sympathy, sounds irritating !

 

If most of the fuss is around your house/land development, maybe it will quieten down as things nears completion ?

 

If I understand correctly, the gentlemen is a retired teacher ? This comes with some prestige/status in Thai society and he may be used to barking instructions and getting his own way. 

 

If you have a strong and objective feeling he is being unreasonable, I would not expect to be able to suddenly change this behaviour, or indeed at all.

 

I had an insufferable neighbour for several years and discussion, mediation, neighbourhood meetings, some verbal arguments and council involvement did nothing to solve it. Eventually, he moved away. Ultimately, we simply cannot "control" others behaviour unless it is in the realm of criminality, which I don't think this is. 

 

I would suggest a couple of options :

1) You find a method to park this away mentally and just accept it for what it is ("let it go"). You had many positive words about the support and friendship in the village, focus on that.  He may still continue to be an annoyance but you will be more at peace mentally and physically and may be able to gradually improve relations with your neighbour.

2) Next time he comes out give him the full verbal treatment. No violence of course but give him a strong and direct verbal outburst. In English is fine, he will get the message from your tone, volume and body language. Avoid using the f-word. That might give him a shake up that you are not to be taken as a soft touch and to back off. Of course, there's a fair chance it might also make things worse with him and also lower your standing in the village....

 

I wouldn't bother with any legal recourse, nothing will come of it accept worse relations with your neighbour. 

Thanks for the comment.

 

No - the teacher is another neighbor, she is as good as gold, she lives opposite the little man. She has a problem with him dumping his grey water on the road as it's right in front of her front door, she has to drive through it to get to her house on a daily basis. They think it's toilet waste, despite my best efforts to set them straight.

 

OK, glad to hear you had mediation by various means, I think this would be a start, because I think it would come down in our favor if someone with some power told him to stop behaving like a 5 year old.

 

The guy is someone from out of the area, my wife, although isnt from the village, is an Issan girl. The neighbor is from below BKK and is wife is from Malay borders, they dont speak the local lingo, and locals (who are pretty much a couple of extended families, dont understand why he has come to our village making trouble. 

 

On 2/1/2023 at 10:04 AM, Netease said:

Maybe offer to pay for half the wall, there is no 10cm rule

Really? Our builder seems to think there is such a rule.

 

I will call my solicitor today - I did some reading up on Siam Legal last night, there are some interesting things that the guy might not understand, for example a person is financially liable for water damage caused by a person with higher land .. fat chance of anyone paying up, but knowing this kind of info and similar may be enough to get him to <deleted>.
 

23 hours ago, Crossy said:

"Tall walls make good neighbours", build your wall to the limits of what is permitted height wise then he won't be able to lean over it. Isolate yourself as much as possible and forget there's a neighbour on that side.

 

It's always unfortunate when this kind of thing gets toxic, and sadly, Thais can get vindictive!

 

It might be worth asking the village head if he will have a "quiet word" (our village head is a really nice guy who appreciates a bottle of the "good-stuff") but from what you've already said it's likely to fall on deaf ears anyway.

Unfortunately I dont have the budget to build a wall the length of the property. I will however, grow a hedge for 12M next to his wall, the next section will be covered by the garage, which is 2M away from the wall, then a corner for the birds, compost heap, ong's. The front wall is going up now, along with a little decorative border to keep his grey water from flowing onto "my" section of the government land. 

 

Can he have a say over what I do to his wall on my side? We are in the process of building a front boundary wall, hopefully this will stop a lot of the interference, and also this is difficult, but I'm trying to stop the builder from taking the bait, the guy next door isnt paying his wages for personal consultations, if the guy wants to say something, he needs to come to my wife or myself.

[Crossy]

27 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Can he have a say over what I do to his wall on my side?

 

I'm pretty sure he can, it's his wall ???? 

 

Is the wall fully on his side of the property line?

 

It might be worth having a word with a lawyer well versed in property law, just to get a fix on exactly where you stand on the wall front.

[MJCM]

31 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It might be worth having a word with a lawyer well versed in property law, just to get a fix on exactly where you stand on the wall front.

Wouldn't the land office be the first point of contact before talking to a lawyer?

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Wouldn't the land office be the first point of contact before talking to a lawyer?

 

Very possibly, but our land office is so chaotically busy that they would be more interested in getting rid of you ASAP than actually answering questions in a meaningful manner.

[Elkski]

We need pictures.   Glad your welcomed by the village.

I don't live in Thailand or have I built there.

 I think he would be mad if you put any new dirt leaning on his wall above his grade line on his side. If he didn't like the red paint.   Sounds like a bad situation.   I'm wondering what the water is from?  What is the pipe size, type? What elevation is it to his main floor level? Is his a 2 story house.   That water sounds like a mosquito breeding spot. Maybe that is his grey water septic tank drain but does that mean it's not draining?   Could it be a sump pump outlet?

Are you worried he raised his lot but it sounds like your not?  

Yes I read that the almost retired teacher  was helpful and not this raised lot guy?   

Sounds like a nightmare.   

Edited February 2, 2023 by Elkski

[recom273]

53 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Very possibly, but our land office is so chaotically busy that they would be more interested in getting rid of you ASAP than actually answering questions in a meaningful manner.

 

57 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Wouldn't the land office be the first point of contact before talking to a lawyer?

Apparently, the tessaban is the first call, they will know where the boundary is.

 

The fortunate thing is, the guys at the tessaban are 1) the guy who drew up our plans 2) the engineer who signed the plans off sits next to the surveyor  ???? So, the tessaban are a phone call away.

 

Another thing that put fuel on the fire, was the speed which we got our plans approved (because we used the tessaban). The next door neighbor waited 6 weeks for his plans to be approved by the tessaban, ours was done within days, when he started kicking up I remembered that they should have been left for public reaction for a month or something, we seemed to circumvent this, somehow.

 

The solicitor informed us we can visit the tessaban ourselves, but if we need proceed further we can use his services. Ideally, I would have liked a relationship like we have with the rest of the village, my wife disappears with food for people to sample, they are amused that there is a westerner that they can come and talk sheet with - the next step is, some guy who doesnt speak to me or my wife, no problem, I can live in silence - but I dont need a small man leaning over the wall with a constant "you cant do that" .. its laughable, easily the most small minded attitude I have ever come across in Thailand, and just my luck, I bought land next to him.

 

 

[recom273]

40 minutes ago, Elkski said:

We need pictures.   Glad your welcomed by the village.

I don't live in Thailand or have I built there.

 I think he would be mad if you put any new dirt leaning on his wall above his grade line on his side. If he didn't like the red paint.   Sounds like a bad situation.   I'm wondering what the water is from?  What is the pipe size, type? What elevation is it to his main floor level? Is his a 2 story house.   That water sounds like a mosquito breeding spot. Maybe that is his grey water septic tank drain but does that mean it's not draining?   Could it be a sump pump outlet?

Are you worried he raised his lot but it sounds like your not?  

Yes I read that the almost retired teacher  was helpful and not this raised lot guy?   

Sounds like a nightmare.   

Yeah, topping off the land has never been an issue, which I thought it would be. The other side wall looks like it would fall over and I was really worried. Our land is 10cm higher than his - 30cm from level of the nearest tarmac road, his is 20cm.

 

Yeah, the water is a mystery - I think he has built an extra shower or washing machine or outside kitchen and tapped into the land drain which runs either side of the property. But totally, when we construct our little wall to keep the water off our land, it will create even more of a green slimey puddle over the width of the road. Lucky we are talking about a soi where every house is in a rai of land, that mosquito nursery was infront of our land before.

[talahtnut]

Bend with the wind, be nice, give him a bottle of beer

or some food on special Thai days. There are Thais

that don't like foreigners, You can show him how

charitable we can be.

Our neighbours use our internet, bikes, parking space,

and I sweep the road early in the morning as an act

of humility. Its not unusual to find a bag of market produce

 or a bottle of beer hanging on the gate.

[riclag]

It sounds like you want peace of mind!

To get that ,be prepared to take him to court. Don’t be confrontational with him especially if he shows anger .

Record his objections with your phone.

Go to the Amphur land office and start by asking for help!They can lead you in the right direction.

[recom273]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

Bend with the wind, be nice, give him a bottle of beer

or some food on special Thai days. There are Thais

that don't like foreigners, You can show him how

charitable we can be.

Our neighbours use our internet, bikes, parking space,

and I sweep the road early in the morning as an act

of humility. Its not unusual to find a bag of market produce

 or a bottle of beer hanging on the gate.

No .. that's an idealistic approach. There is no way this guy is going to get over this. The whole village hates him.

 

He is complaining about a necessary 6" horizontal red line on the wall, the opposite side of the wall to him. To be able to see the red line, he has to lean over the wall. Who in their right mind complains about this?

 

lol .. carry on sweeping the road.

[recom273]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

It sounds like you want peace of mind!

To get that ,be prepared to take him to court. Don’t be confrontational with him especially if he shows anger .

Record his objections with your phone.

Go to the Amphur land office and start by asking for help!They can lead you in the right direction.

I don't know if I want piece of mind, but yeah - I just want to know that I can live the rest of my life in peace. 

 

The plot is rectangular, on the first 12M there is a planter of either side, 1 brick high. I want to be able to plant a hedge without having some little <deleted> leaning over the wall with a tape measure. Not too much to ask is it?

 

Yes, will be at the tessaban next week.