Ukraine war: Russia must be defeated but not crushed, Macron says

[Scott]

 

French President Emmanuel Macron has said he does not want to see Russia crushed by a defeat in Ukraine.

Speaking to French media, Mr Macron urged Western nations to increase military support for Kyiv and said he was prepared for a protracted war.

"I want Russia to be defeated in Ukraine, and I want Ukraine to be able to defend its position," he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64693691

[billd766]

Thus speaks the voice of the little wannabe Napoleon.

 

It is not as though he is speaking for NATO or the EU, merely to the people of France.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thus speaks the voice of the little wannabe Napoleon.

 

It is not as though he is speaking for NATO or the EU, merely to the people of France.

What?

 

He’s the leader of a major NATO nation and significant contributor to supporting Ukraine.

 

Keeping the people of France on board with support for Ukraine and publicly declaring his administration’s support for Ukraine is the right thing to do.

 

Putin’s shills might disagree.

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Tug]

I donno Russian leadership must pay a heavy price for what they created slava Ukraine ???????? 

[ozimoron]

Apparently, Macron qualified his statement by saying that the Putin alternatives are worse than Putin and therefore crushing Putin was not a good idea. I believe any war criminal must be removed regardless.

[Kwasaki]

Not crushed, not as though France could do such a thing the doomsday clock is 90secs to 12 already.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Not crushed, not as though France could do such a thing the doomsday clock is 90secs to 12 already.

Clearly, Macron wasn't referring to the French doing it, or, rather, not doing it, by themselves. That said, given the wretched performance of the Russian armed forces, in a non-nuclear war, I suspect that France by itself would easily give Russian armed forces a whooping.

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Clearly, Macron wasn't referring to the French doing it, or, rather, not doing it, by themselves. That said, given the wretched performance of the Russian armed forces, in a non-nuclear war, I suspect that France by itself would easily give Russian armed forces a whooping.

Fair call but to check out Russia's nuclear power performance is not whats wanted. 

I just think talking about Russia is not much good,  talking to them is what's wanted. 

[John Drake]

Quote

"I do not think, as some people do, that we must aim for a total defeat of Russia, attacking Russia on its own soil," Mr Macron told the paper Le Journal du Dimanche.

So, the Russians can park their arsenal and armies 100 meters outside Ukraine's border and freely attack from there and everywhere else in Russia without any counterattack allowed?

[Andycoops]

Macron is a feeble appeaser, the arrogant french don't remember what happens to them every time they are invaded,

We bail them out because they are a clueless bunch of aristocrats.

[billd766]

14 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Macron is a feeble appeaser, the arrogant french don't remember what happens to them every time they are invaded,

We bail them out because they are a clueless bunch of aristocrats.

amended quote "We bail them out because they are a clueless bunch".

[candide]

Don't forget it's a diplomatic statement made in a specific context. Putin's communication strategy is to claim being a victim of NATO aggression and Western imperialism, and he is relatively successful with it in a certain number of countries, particularly in some French-speaking countries in Africa. So it's obvious that he will not say anything which may give some substance to Putin's claim. Same for the other NATO countries, they will never say they want to help destroy or even just agress Russia (whatever they may think).

Edited February 20, 2023 by candide

[Kwasaki]

This another thread about the war.

I still think it's a American CIA arranged experiment they don't give a monkies about Ukraine.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

This another thread about the war.

I still think it's a American CIA arranged experiment they don't give a monkies about Ukraine.

You forget to mention George Soros, Bilderberg, Russiagate, and a host of similarly reflexive conspiracy accusations without offering the least shred of evidence.

This quote is from the World Forum's landing page:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

 

[ozimoron]

17 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

This another thread about the war.

I still think it's a American CIA arranged experiment they don't give a monkies about Ukraine.

The CIA arranged for Russia to invade Ukraine? Qanon has a lot to answer for.

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The CIA arranged for Russia to invade Ukraine? Qanon has a lot to answer for.

At the end of the day i just see it as politics and a lack of no understanding of different cultures. 

There is the mathematics of numbers in this type of war without the intervention of the west,  we are looking at 140 millions against 40 millions.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, Andycoops said:

Macron is a feeble appeaser, the arrogant french don't remember what happens to them every time they are invaded,

We bail them out because they are a clueless bunch of aristocrats.

Deride the French at your peril remember N Bonaparte?ww1?they were instrumental in supporting my country at its birth personally I’d never dismiss the French but they are a fractious bunch lol god love ❤️ them.Marcon was making a political statement imo trying to give Putin an out so he quits his criminal war no more I’m sure as most he would love to see Putin rubbed out and a more egalitarian government in Russia 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

At the end of the day i just see it as politics and a lack of no understanding of different cultures. 

There is the mathematics of numbers in this type of war without the intervention of the west,  we are looking at 140 millions against 40 millions.

The west hasn't sent troops. Ukraine's army will defeat the untrained and demoralised Russians. Invading Ukraine was huge miscalculation.

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, Tug said:

Deride the French at your peril remember N Bonaparte?ww1?they were instrumental in supporting my country at its birth personally I’d never dismiss the French but they are a fractious bunch lol god love ❤️ them.Marcon was making a political statement imo trying to give Putin an out so he quits his criminal war no more I’m sure as most he would love to see Putin rubbed out and a more egalitarian government in Russia 

Marcon making political statements ain't gonna stop the war is it. 

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The west hasn't sent troops. Ukraine's army will defeat the untrained and demoralised Russians. Invading Ukraine was huge miscalculation.

That's in the past, one learns from mistakes,  I don't think Ukraine has the numbers that the Russians did at Leningrad.

[billd766]

15 minutes ago, Tug said:

Deride the French at your peril remember N Bonaparte?ww1?they were instrumental in supporting my country at its birth personally I’d never dismiss the French but they are a fractious bunch lol god love ❤️ them.Marcon was making a political statement imo trying to give Putin an out so he quits his criminal war no more I’m sure as most he would love to see Putin rubbed out and a more egalitarian government in Russia 

Us Brits (ros bifs) remember the French (frog eaters) for centuries, longer than the USA has been a country.

 

We have fought against them, fought with them, saved their asses a few times and still they don't like us.

 

Mostly I think due to the leadership of both nations, rather than the people.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That's in the past, one learns from mistakes,  I don't think Ukraine has the numbers that the Russians did at Leningrad.

200,000 of those Russians are now dead, mostly killed by Ukrainian artillery like cannon fodder. Hundreds of thousands more are fleeing the country rather than fight. Leningrad is not a good comparison.

[AndyFoxy]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

200,000 of those Russians are now dead, mostly killed by Ukrainian artillery like cannon fodder. Hundreds of thousands more are fleeing the country rather than fight. Leningrad is not a good comparison.

Where does the 200K come from? Source please.

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

200,000 of those Russians are now dead, mostly killed by Ukrainian artillery like cannon fodder. Hundreds of thousands more are fleeing the country rather than fight. Leningrad is not a good comparison.

Well we don't agree.

140 million people and 40 million today you don't think makes a difference well Goodluck with that. 

[Rimmer]

37 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

200,000 of those Russians are now dead, mostly killed by Ukrainian artillery like cannon fodder. Hundreds of thousands more are fleeing the country rather than fight. Leningrad is not a good comparison.

 

Russia’s losses up to 200,000 soldiers, most killed by artillery – UK MoD

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-losses-200-000-soldiers-111700262.html

[ozimoron]

40 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well we don't agree.

140 million people and 40 million today you don't think makes a difference well Goodluck with that. 

How then has Ukraine managed to thrash Russia in battle for the past year? What has changed now to allow Russia to win? Ukraine's military is far stronger now than it was a year ago and getting stronger.

Edited February 20, 2023 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, Saanim said:

There are no longer 40 million. Even before the war started there were hardly 30 M, many of them permanently emigrated during last 20 years, many working abroad for decades.  No census over last 20 years.

 

And during the past year perhaps another 10 M have gone somewhere.  And how many were in the areas separated from Ukraine? 

 

So, who are those really engaged in this war? There are many different figures, who can say which ones are really correct?  

43 million. If there has been no census where did you get  your figures? Why are your numbers more accurate than this link?

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/

[Scott]

A post making unsubstantiated claims has been reported and removed.

 

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well we don't agree.

140 million people and 40 million today you don't think makes a difference well Goodluck with that. 

A lot depends on the kill ratio. Russia is now using human wave attacks. Does it need to be explained what the means?  In addition, Ukrainians are fighting for the survival of their nation.  Russian soldiers aren't. Ukraininas quite understandably don't believe that Russia has changed its ultimate goal  and has now confined its ambitions to the Donbas.

[Saanim]

13 hours ago, ozimoron said:

43 million. If there has been no census where did you get  your figures? Why are your numbers more accurate than this link?

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/

Just a simple maths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022–2023_Ukrainian_refugee_crisis

 

(BTW, how did you get 43 M when no census?)