Back to Back ED Visas?

[asiacurious]

My gf has an ED Visa (studying Thai) for almost a year and wants to get another ED Visa.   We are getting conflicting information from different language schools.  

 

This is what we've been told that we don't have any issue with (but please let me know if any of these first three are wrong):

• 1 - New ED Visa must be for study at a different school. (Both schools say this.)
• 2 - Must change language being studied.  (Both schools say this.)
• 3 - Must get ED Visa Cancellation Letter from current school within 7 days of leaving, take to CW, then exit Thailand.   (Current school says this.)

 

This is what isn't making sense to us:

• 4 - Must leave Thailand and come back on a 60 day Tourist Visa.  (New School says this.)
• 5 - Can NOT get ED Visa at Embassy outside of Thailand.  (New School says this.)
• 6 - Must convert Tourist Visa to ED Visa once in Thailand.  (New School says this.)

 

I've checked with two Embassies outside of Thailand and they both say that they are currently processing ED Visas, contrary to what the new language school says (in 4, 5, and 6 above).

 

I understand that you have to leave Thailand to formally end the ED Visa.  Why must you get a Tourist Visa to come back to Thailand to convert the tourist Visa to an ED Visa in country, if Thai Embassies in other countries are currently processing ED Visas?  (Remember that in-country conversions are a relatively new thing that only started during Covid.)

 

Is there something I am missing?  Do embassies NOT give ED Visas to someone who just had an ED Visa?  Or something else?

 

Thank you!

 

 

[BananaStrong]

Had an ED Visa a billion years ago.     Sorry, I can't answer your question.

 

1.   Is she really happy with her current school?  If so, can you name them?

2.  What was the cost for a year?

 

I might pursue that route again in the summer, not sure.

[JoseThailand]

4 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Is there something I am missing?  Do embassies NOT give ED Visas to someone who just had an ED Visa?  Or something else?

That's right, a second back-to-back ED visa can easily be refused by a consulate. And even if the visa granted, entry with such a visa may be refused at an airport. That's why the schools say that an ED visa must be obtained in-country, as they have more control over the process (read: know who to pay).

Edited February 22, 2023 by JoseThailand

[DrJack54]

My understanding is a second one not possible unless studies at a university. 

That may be rubbish just a vague recollection of that being the case

[asiacurious]

2 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

That's right, a second back-to-back ED visa can easily be refused by a consulate. And even if the visa granted, entry with such a visa may be refused at an airport. That's why the schools say that an ED visa must be obtained in-country, as they have more control over the process (read: know who to pay).

Ugh.  So tired of the "know who to pay" nonsense.

 

First, reputable schools don't need to "know who to pay".   And there isn't a need for that when you're a legit school offering a legit program with legit students taking it.  No "come to class if you want" program from the schools I'm talking about.  You come, or they refuse to extend your visa.  Plus, there's no "extra" money hidden in the cost of the course they are charging to pay someone anyway.

 

Lastly, the whole in country conversion thing just started several months into Covid.  Prior to Covid, the only way to get a new ED visa was outside the country.  What's more, in-country ED Visas were the only way to get them until the country started to re-open in earnest, which was October 2021 at the earliest, but more realistically not until May 2022.  So really, less than a year.  So very few people have even been able to get a back to back ED Visa since before the pandemic, when the only way to do that was outside of the country.

 

So....  I guess I should have specified that I wasn't looking for mere opinions.  I probably should have been more clear and asked for responses from people who have actual knowledge or experience.  

[asiacurious]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

My understanding is a second one not possible unless studies at a university. 

That may be rubbish just a vague recollection of that being the case

I think you're correct if you want to continue studying the same language.  At least that's what both schools have said.  Study more of the same requires shifting from a private language school to a more advanced university program.  But shifting to another language (or another subject entirely, like Muay Thai) at a different private school, does away with that need.

[asiacurious]

4 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

Had an ED Visa a billion years ago.     Sorry, I can't answer your question.

 

1.   Is she really happy with her current school?  If so, can you name them?

2.  What was the cost for a year?

 

I might pursue that route again in the summer, not sure.

Classes, books, Visa, and Extensions all came to about 80K.  Good experience at the school, though the school doesn't offer the greatest advice or guidance on issues (like this) or re-entry permits (for example, they advice students not to leave the country for more than 1 week while on an ED Visa or Immigration may not let you back in, which is total nonsense.  As long as you have a re-entry permit and return before your visa/extension expires, you can go for several weeks without any problem.)

[Liverpool Lou]

20 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

Classes, books, Visa, and Extensions all came to about 80K.  Good experience at the school, though the school doesn't offer the greatest advice or guidance on issues (like this) or re-entry permits (for example, they advice students not to leave the country for more than 1 week while on an ED Visa or Immigration may not let you back in, which is total nonsense.  As long as you have a re-entry permit and return before your visa/extension expires, you can go for several weeks without any problem.)

 

26 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

I think you're correct if you want to continue studying the same language.  At least that's what both schools have said.  Study more of the same requires shifting from a private language school to a more advanced university program.  But shifting to another language (or another subject entirely, like Muay Thai) at a different private school, does away with that need.

 

29 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

Ugh.  So tired of the "know who to pay" nonsense.

 

First, reputable schools don't need to "know who to pay".   And there isn't a need for that when you're a legit school offering a legit program with legit students taking it.  No "come to class if you want" program from the schools I'm talking about.  You come, or they refuse to extend your visa.  Plus, there's no "extra" money hidden in the cost of the course they are charging to pay someone anyway.

 

Lastly, the whole in country conversion thing just started several months into Covid.  Prior to Covid, the only way to get a new ED visa was outside the country.  What's more, in-country ED Visas were the only way to get them until the country started to re-open in earnest, which was October 2021 at the earliest, but more realistically not until May 2022.  So really, less than a year.  So very few people have even been able to get a back to back ED Visa since before the pandemic, when the only way to do that was outside of the country.

 

So....  I guess I should have specified that I wasn't looking for mere opinions.  I probably should have been more clear and asked for responses from people who have actual knowledge or experience.  

It is clear that you are much better informed than most posters here who are going to guess at answers for you and throw in a bit of gratuitous Thai-bashing!   

[Caldera]

44 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

Ugh.  So tired of the "know who to pay" nonsense.

So you think it's nonsense, but how much did your girlfriend need to pay for the locally issued Non-ED visa?

 

I don't know of any case - studying in an informal language school program mind you - where the applicant got away with  paying just the official fee without any "extras".

[asiacurious]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

So you think it's nonsense, but how much did your girlfriend need to pay for the locally issued Non-ED visa?

 

I don't know of any case - studying in an informal language school program mind you - where the applicant got away with  paying just the official fee without any "extras".

Now you know of a case.  It was 2000THB (or maybe 1900THB - some things are 1900, some are 2000).  Anyway, the school prepared all paperwork with MoE and Immigration and met a group of students at Immigration for the initial visa application.  For extensions, they prepared all the paperwork and students would go by themselves to Immigration.

 

When you're a legitimate student who is legitimately studying at a legitimate school, there are no extras.  Lots of pages of documents, but everything is on the up and up.  In all the time we've been in Thailand, we have NEVER paid (nor been asked or expected to pay) any "extras".  With the exception of what the school handled for the ED Visa, we've always dealt with Immigration on our own and we have never used an agent for anything.

 

And maybe that's the difference.  Things cost more through an agent because you're paying for their time, knowledge, employees, and overhead... not because the agent has to cover "extras" on a your behalf.

[asiacurious]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

 

It is clear that you are much better informed than most posters here who are going to guess at answers for you and throw in a bit of gratuitous Thai-bashing!   

Yeah, seems so.  I was hoping for clarification and all I got was cacophony.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Ugh.  So tired of the "know who to pay" nonsense.

 

First, reputable schools don't need to "know who to pay".   And there isn't a need for that when you're a legit school offering a legit program with legit students taking it.  No "come to class if you want" program from the schools I'm talking about.  You come, or they refuse to extend your visa.  Plus, there's no "extra" money hidden in the cost of the course they are charging to pay someone anyway.

 

Lastly, the whole in country conversion thing just started several months into Covid.  Prior to Covid, the only way to get a new ED visa was outside the country.  What's more, in-country ED Visas were the only way to get them until the country started to re-open in earnest, which was October 2021 at the earliest, but more realistically not until May 2022.  So really, less than a year.  So very few people have even been able to get a back to back ED Visa since before the pandemic, when the only way to do that was outside of the country.

 

So....  I guess I should have specified that I wasn't looking for mere opinions.  I probably should have been more clear and asked for responses from people who have actual knowledge or experience.  

There is a lot of misinformation on this forum. However, it is a fact that Non Ed visas that would have been approved at embassies/consulates in the past are now routinely rejected. It is well known that people were using Non Ed visas purely to be able to stay in Thailand, and with studying Thai being (at best) a secondary objective. For that reason, serial Non Ed visas to study at informal schools are effectively disallowed (though they are still possible through well connected schools).

 

To the OP: leaving Thailand and returning visa exempt should allow you to get a fresh Non Ed visa and subsequent extensions, if your school states that this is possible. Have your current extension cancelled formally at Immigration (with a letter from your old school) just before you leave. This ensures that you are squeaky clean on the immigration front at the point where your new application is going through the education ministry and immigration.

[proton]

36 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is a lot of misinformation on this forum. However, it is a fact that Non Ed visas that would have been approved at embassies/consulates in the past are now routinely rejected. It is well known that people were using Non Ed visas purely to be able to stay in Thailand, and with studying Thai being (at best) a secondary objective. For that reason, serial Non Ed visas to study at informal schools are effectively disallowed (though they are still possible through well connected schools).

 

To the OP: leaving Thailand and returning visa exempt should allow you to get a fresh Non Ed visa and subsequent extensions, if your school states that this is possible. Have your current extension cancelled formally at Immigration (with a letter from your old school) just before you leave. This ensures that you are squeaky clean on the immigration front at the point where your new application is going through the education ministry and immigration.

Yes abused far too much in the past, or Wallen visa mill in Bangkok might still be around ????