"Death Highway" again - Poh Teck Tung driver dead, many injuries as two pick-ups collide in NE

[spidermike007]

26 minutes ago, kwilco said:

The arrogance of “western” drivers……

 

Detailed anecdotal descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving achieve nothing. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e. blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplifying matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea

 

·       Patience is something you admire in the driver behind you and scorn in the one ahead. ...

 

A few common truths about how motorists see themselves versus other road users

 

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

 

“ ….. there are only three types of drivers; the too fast, the timid and oneself.” 
― Virginia Graham, Say Please

 

“There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well, drive and make love.” – Stirling Moss

 

Dunning-Kruger effect: - a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.  –

 

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.

• I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore, little I can do.

• Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”

• Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.

• Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008)

• The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).

• High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education

• But not for themselves - for other people.

 

However, the reality can be a long way from these benighted perspectives

An extraordinarily sad commentary.

 

You can cite theories like the Dunning-Kruger effect, but it has no bearing on a conversation with a person who has devoted their life to being a conscious, mindful, attentive, sober, highly talented driver. It just does not relate to someone who takes ridiculous risks with their entire family on board. No parallel on any level. If you are going to cite stuff, try to make your recitations relevant. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by spidermike007

[kwilco]

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You can cite theories like the Dunning-Kruger effect, but it has no bearing on a conversation with a person who has devoted their life to being a conscious, mindful, attentive, sober, highly talented driver.

QED - what bout the rest? people are so predictable... and dare I say it? Conceited?

I've said all along that human error is common to ALL of us...except you? ...and apparently you think Thai people don't think that way too?

Edited February 22, 2023 by kwilco

[hotchilli]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

this is an inaccurate and archaic approach to road  safety.

Thailand and the UK have almost the same number of reported crashes, yet the death rate in Thailand is 12times that of the UK - can you give a scientific or evidence-based explanation to tat?

Speed, seat-belts, number of passengers per vehicle, vehicles built to a lower safety standard.

All add up to higher injury and fatality numbers.

That's just the begining.

[kwilco]

29 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Speed, seat-belts, number of passengers per vehicle, vehicles built to a lower safety standard.

You'd need to come up with some hard evidence for that.

For instance you are LESS likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in Thailand than in the States - regardless of the numbers of people in the back of pickup trucks.

 

although you may see more than 2 people on a motorbike I know o no figures to say what proportion of them are fatalities. 

We do know that  motorcycles account for 4 times more deaths than on 4-wheelers.

 

Whilst pickup are inherently less safe than sedans their are no figures to look at this. vehicles on the roads of Thailand probably go back about 15 years or so - but that in itself isn't unusual so one would expect that the build quality is about the same as other countries.  

THe "E" for engineering here could play a part as unlike many countries the process for establishing road worthiness in pretty useless. .so not so much original build quality as maintenance quality.

I expect that seat belt wearing is a factor, but the wearing of seatbelts is increasing in Thailand, but the death rate still isn't changing.

As for speed, I know of no way that anyone can confirm this - the figures suggest that speed being a factor in crashes is more o less exactly the same as it is around the rest of the world. Even alcohol involvement in crashes although at the high end compared to Sweden and UK, is not wildly more than in the USA.

 

As the collision rate in Thailand is similar to that in the UK, I think we do need to look at what happens AFTER a crash starts to unfold - one thing that concerns me is the total lack of a truly standardised first responder and emergency service as well as a follow-up Emergency room service in Thailand.

THe UK system - when it works, has an emergency response time of 8 minutes - I've never heard of that being achieved anywhere in Thailand - even if you crashed on a hospital doorstep!

 

As said, a further problem with Thai road deaths is the road environment - once the crash has started the environment is far more toxic that on a well-prepared European road.

 

so I don't think it is any one single factor I think when it comes to fatalities there are a combination of factors that lead to Thailand being a perfect storm

Edited February 22, 2023 by kwilco

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

QED - what bout the rest? people are so predictable... and dare I say it? Conceited?

I've said all along that human error is common to ALL of us...except you? ...and apparently you think Thai people don't think that way too?

I tend to agree. But, are you presuming the vast majority of terrible accidents here are human errors, that could not have been avoided? If I decide to cut you off on a highway, when you are going 120kph, and I am making a u-turn, and there was plenty of room behind you for me to make a safe turn, is that an error, if it results in a horrific, fatal accident, and I take the lives of you and your family? 

 

Sometimes an error is wearing white after Labor day in New York City. And sometimes an error is invading Germany in the winter.

 

I don't make the kind of errors that result in bad accidents, much less fatalities. Why? Because I am very, very careful on the road, and very, very respectful of other drivers, their lives, and those of their families. That is a choice that results in NOT making very many terrible mistakes. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by spidermike007

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

But, are you presuming the vast majority of terrible accidents here are human errors,

No I'm not I'm reporting various organisations on road safety - including the WHO.

citing single or hypothetical incidents is misleading - I'm basing my posts on the hardest evidence available - thousands of crashes and to assess human error, millions worldwide over the years.

you need to re-read my bit about humanerror - you are fixating on the extreme end of RTIs tht actually only make up a tiny part of te deaths on Thai roads or in any country.

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

No I'm not I'm reporting various organisations on road safety - including the WHO.

citing single or hypothetical incidents is misleading - I'm basing my posts on the hardest evidence available - thousands of crashes and to assess human error, millions worldwide over the years.

you need to re-read my bit about humanerror - you are fixating on the extreme end of RTIs tht actually only make up a tiny part of te deaths on Thai roads or in any country.

And I am also basing this on experience. Nowhere else in the world have I seen people consistency take the kinds of chances and risks in the road, that they take here, with their families in the car. Nowhere. When they could have waited four seconds to make the uturn or turn onto the highway, and have a completely clear path, they instead choose to take a tremendous risk. It is beyond comprehension. I see it all the time. My eyes do not lie to me. This rarely ever happens to me in the US. 

[spidermike007]

32 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You'd need to come up with some hard evidence for that.

For instance you are LESS likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in Thailand than in the States - regardless of the numbers of people in the back of pickup trucks.

 

although you may see more than 2 people on a motorbike I know o no figures to say what proportion of them are fatalities. 

We do know that  motorcycles account for 4 times more deaths than on 4-wheelers.

 

Whilst pickup are inherently less safe than sedans their are no figures to look at this. vehicles on the roads of Thailand probably go back about 15 years or so - but that in itself isn't unusual so one would expect that the build quality is about the same as other countries.  

THe "E" for engineering here could play a part as unlike many countries the process for establishing road worthiness in pretty useless. .so not so much original build quality as maintenance quality.

I expect that seat belt wearing is a factor, but the wearing of seatbelts is increasing in Thailand, but the death rate still isn't changing.

As for speed, I know of no way that anyone can confirm this - the figures suggest that speed being a factor in crashes is more o less exactly the same as it is around the rest of the world. Even alcohol involvement in crashes although at the high end compared to Sweden and UK, is not wildly more than in the USA.

 

As the collision rate in Thailand is similar to that in the UK, I think we do need to look at what happens AFTER a crash starts to unfold - one thing that concerns me is the total lack of a truly standardised first responder and emergency service as well as a follow-up Emergency room service in Thailand.

THe UK system - when it works, has an emergency response time of 8 minutes - I've never heard of that being achieved anywhere in Thailand - even if you crashed on a hospital doorstep!

 

As said, a further problem with Thai road deaths is the road environment - once the crash has started the environment is far more toxic that on a well-prepared European road.

 

so I don't think it is any one single factor I think when it comes to fatalities there are a combination of factors that lead to Thailand being a perfect storm

You do make some good points. And how about the length of time it takes the ambulance to get to the hospital due to road congestion, and many people's unwillingness to extend courtesy to an ambulance? There are so many factors, some of them cultural, and as you say, this leads to a perfect storm. 

 

 

[spidermike007]

When I was growing up, we took drivers education courses. They showed us horrendous films, of semi trucks plowing into cars, and literally obliterating everything in their path. They also showed us graphic images of head on collisions. 120mph impacts. Even as a young kid, it made quite an impression. It was horrific, and it was hard to get those images out of your head afterwards. But, it left a lasting impression, and when I started driving, I understood it was serious business, and that it was a very dangerous thing to do. Also, I had the benefit of my lovely Mom, as my instructor. She spent countless hours in the car with me giving me tips, advice, and teaching me driving etiquette, courtesy and respect toward other drivers. That was priceless, and I doubt many Thai kids benefit from that kind of guidance. 

 

I see people driving here, with their families in the car, and doing things, and taking the kinds of risks no rational or sane person with common sense would do. What for? To gain one minute? Why take those risks? What is the logic? Often, when I am cruising along at 100kph, or more, someone cuts right in front of me. Or someone comes out from the side road, right in front of me. I have to slam on my brakes, or change lanes to avoid him. I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me. So, if he had waited two seconds, he would have had completely safe passage onto the highway. What gives? Where is the intelligence, caution, and prudence? Where is the common sense? What about just the survival instinct? 

[novacova]

13 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Yeah but I wasn't a racist until I started driving in Thailand. ????

 

Watch a few of these videos and see if you notice any patterns.

 

 

Amerin and other tv channels here will run these clips for up to an hour or more during programming. Cameras everywhere and they’ll show it on and on in detail, unlike in the US where it’s just a brief blip if mentioned at all. And…per capita, I see more careless westerners driving than I do Thais, simply because they’re in unfamiliar territory like driving on the wrong freaking side of the road, not to mention I certainly see a lot more westerners hobbling around with injuries from motorcycle accidents.

I’ve driven thousands of kilometers here and I have no problem with the safety of any of the roads I’ve driven on, and staying within the limitations of the road and watching out for other drivers is always paramount to safe driving anywhere. I don’t think Thailand is less safe or more dangerous except for a lot of motorcycles I see at night with no lights, and yes I’ve driven by quite a few motorcycle fatalities during the night.

Edited February 22, 2023 by novacova

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

You'd need to come up with some hard evidence for that.

For instance you are LESS likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in Thailand than in the States - regardless of the numbers of people in the back of pickup trucks.

 

although you may see more than 2 people on a motorbike I know o no figures to say what proportion of them are fatalities. 

We do know that  motorcycles account for 4 times more deaths than on 4-wheelers.

 

Whilst pickup are inherently less safe than sedans their are no figures to look at this. vehicles on the roads of Thailand probably go back about 15 years or so - but that in itself isn't unusual so one would expect that the build quality is about the same as other countries.  

THe "E" for engineering here could play a part as unlike many countries the process for establishing road worthiness in pretty useless. .so not so much original build quality as maintenance quality.

I expect that seat belt wearing is a factor, but the wearing of seatbelts is increasing in Thailand, but the death rate still isn't changing.

As for speed, I know of no way that anyone can confirm this - the figures suggest that speed being a factor in crashes is more o less exactly the same as it is around the rest of the world. Even alcohol involvement in crashes although at the high end compared to Sweden and UK, is not wildly more than in the USA.

 

As the collision rate in Thailand is similar to that in the UK, I think we do need to look at what happens AFTER a crash starts to unfold - one thing that concerns me is the total lack of a truly standardised first responder and emergency service as well as a follow-up Emergency room service in Thailand.

THe UK system - when it works, has an emergency response time of 8 minutes - I've never heard of that being achieved anywhere in Thailand - even if you crashed on a hospital doorstep!

 

As said, a further problem with Thai road deaths is the road environment - once the crash has started the environment is far more toxic that on a well-prepared European road.

 

so I don't think it is any one single factor I think when it comes to fatalities there are a combination of factors that lead to Thailand being a perfect storm

Well you seem to have everything covered so I'll leave it there.

 

[SABloke]

Two teams are playing a football match: Team A has a professional coach, lots of support staff, and train five days a week. All the players know the rules of the game and try their best to win. Team B has no coach or support staff and some players don't t know the rules of the game. Furthermore, the team never trains.

 

During the game, Team A totally dominates. Team B constantly gives away penalties (mostly for players picking up the ball with their hands), and one Team B player tries their best to score as many own goals as possible (This player actually knows the rules and that they're travelling in the wrong direction, but the feeling of seeing the ball strike the back of the net is enjoyable, and the closest goal is the one on their side of the field. They don't give care whether they win or lose.)

 

At the end of the match the score is 57 - 1 (A few of the Team B players were actually good and against all odds managed to score a goal).

 

Some of the supporters (from both teams) in the stadium make statements that Team B are not good at football. The don't judge their entire existence as humans, but based on what they observed in terms of football, they feel that Team B are bad. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a person in the stands claims that Team B are not bad at football and that saying so is racist! ????

[Photoguy21]

20 hours ago, kwilco said:

Top me it just illustrates how little people understand about road safety. Rubber has shock absorption qualities if correctly used but you seem to think road safety in Thailand is a joke.

I think you are a joke. Grow up

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

When I was growing up, we took drivers education courses. They showed us horrendous films, of semi trucks plowing into cars, and literally obliterating everything in their path. They also showed us graphic images of head on collisions. 120mph impacts. Even as a young kid, it made quite an impression. It was horrific, and it was hard to get those images out of your head afterwards. But, it left a lasting impression, and when I started driving, I understood it was serious business, and that it was a very dangerous thing to do. Also, I had the benefit of my lovely Mom, as my instructor. She spent countless hours in the car with me giving me tips, advice, and teaching me driving etiquette, courtesy and respect toward other drivers. That was priceless, and I doubt many Thai kids benefit from that kind of guidance. 

 

I see people driving here, with their families in the car, and doing things, and taking the kinds of risks no rational or sane person with common sense would do. What for? To gain one minute? Why take those risks? What is the logic? Often, when I am cruising along at 100kph, or more, someone cuts right in front of me. Or someone comes out from the side road, right in front of me. I have to slam on my brakes, or change lanes to avoid him. I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me. So, if he had waited two seconds, he would have had completely safe passage onto the highway. What gives? Where is the intelligence, caution, and prudence? Where is the common sense? What about just the survival instinct? 

you need an exercise in critical thinking - you're attitudes to road safety are archaic.

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You do make some good points. And how about the length of time it takes the ambulance to get to the hospital due to road congestion, and many people's unwillingness to extend courtesy to an ambulance? There are so many factors, some of them cultural, and as you say, this leads to a perfect storm. 

 

 

Staistics road safety and Emergency services

 

You again are not looking at the big picture but determined to use smaller individual incidents and I'm not even sure what point you hope to make. For instance out of about 30,000 incidents there was ONE reliably reported one about 4 years ago that an ambulance was blocked by a stubborn or unaware driver. The standard of the vehicles, their equipment and training of the staff in them is another more universal problem. It is true however that traffic does not readily part to allow emergency vehicle through – compared to somewhere like Germany – this is a n “E for Education” matter.

There is a "golden hour" for serious injury - although not a specific time it is proven that if a patient gets first response treatment of a high standard t at the scene it dramatically improves their chances of recovery and if they then get good emergency service at a hospital the sooner the better.

The problem can be very serious - people with relatively minor injuries is not treated ASAP can go into shock an die.

Thailand has no systems like this in place. If you come of your bike on Samui or anywhere else  for instance there are competing ambulances that will debate on which hospital to take you - they get a fee of the hospitals - there have even been fist fights between ambulance teams over who gets to recover the people (or bodies).

 

Recounting single possible issues isn't a good way to appraise the whole raod safety scenario but an overview of emergency service (E number 4) is could account for a significantly higher number of road deaths..

Unfortunately before one can get a good overview of road safety without relying on anecdotal evidence, guesswork and prejudice one needs reliable statistics.

Thai stats are pretty poor and the ones that are available are only partial. however organisations like the WHO can make sense of what is available to a point so we get an overall picture. Again the media don’t look at these stats intelligently – they focus ONLY on one that is the number of deaths per 100k – tere are loads of others that show Thailand in a different light and they should t least be looked at together to get a good international comparison.

Those stats include – deaths per miles covered/car ownership, miles covered per vehicle, road miles, density of traffic deaths per accident and one of the most important is the categorising of injuries into - Minor – major – and fatal – Thailand fails to do this.

The stats compiled by Thailand don't actually conform to international conventions - only in the last couple of years have they begun to move towards a more compliant format.

The problem with all this is that the media, members of the public and eve the government are left to make ridiculous comments on road safety that are completely without evidence or foundation – the myth of the “bad driver” accompanied by confirmation bias are allowed to run rampant – one result of this we ca be sure of is that for 30 years there has been no significant improvement in road safety in Thailand

 

 

  

[kwilco]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And I am also basing this on experience

This is so not the way to do it -  personal experience is worthless especially if it isn't engaged with critical thinking. It normally just results in confirmation bias.

As I said earlier - I hae a lot of driving experience in Thiland but my most valuable asset is my training in road safety - and I don't mean police driving theory - although I do have copy of "Road Craft"

Edited February 23, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:11 AM, NorthernRyland said:

Have you seen these people drive? Your road stands no chance.

"my road" ????

[kwilco]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:13 AM, Tubulat said:

I have to disappoint you in this one, the cars manufactured in Thailand have a much lesser crumple zone.

A car damage company once showed me that, especially with a Honda Civic.

You have no evidence to support that.

TheCivic isn't just one model so you aren't even making a proper comparison so your conclusions are unfounded.

Here is a test Civic crash test results for ASEAN

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/new-honda-civic-gets-five-star-rating-in-asean-ncap-crash-test/articleshow/87585753.cms

Edited February 23, 2023 by kwilco

[NorthernRyland]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I see people driving here, with their families in the car, and doing things, and taking the kinds of risks no rational or sane person with common sense would do. What for? To gain one minute? Why take those risks? What is the logic?

Exactly. Everything is downstream from this. 

[NorthernRyland]

16 hours ago, kwilco said:

For instance you are LESS likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in Thailand than in the States - regardless of the numbers of people in the back of pickup trucks.

 

Where are you getting that from? That would mean the extensive laws and enforcement in the US are actually producing worse results than Thailand who has no active enforcement of anything, even speed limits. The only possible explanation is that Thai drivers are so highly defensive (because they can't' trust anyone to follow any laws).

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

The problem with all this is that the media, members of the public and eve the government are left to make ridiculous comments on road safety that are completely without evidence or foundation – the myth of the “bad driver” accompanied by confirmation bias are allowed to run rampant – one result of this we ca be sure of is that for 30 years there has been no significant improvement in road safety in Thailand

Is what you're saying across all these comments is Thailand is actually safer and has overall better drivers than developed countries like in Europe or the USA and it's actually just our bad reasoning skills which is leading us to believe it's dangerous? Nothing you're saying appears to be anywhere near reality so I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from.

[NorthernRyland]

15 hours ago, novacova said:

I don’t think Thailand is less safe or more dangerous except for a lot of motorcycles I see at night with no lights, and yes I’ve driven by quite a few motorcycle fatalities during the night.

So all the road rules we follow in the US have no results? Thailand has no enforcement of anything driving laws (outside of check points) so that would be the US should follow and stop enforcing all laws? Help me understand how this could be true.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

Where are you getting that from? That would mean the extensive laws and enforcement in the US are actually producing worse results than Thailand who has no active enforcement of anything, even speed limits. The only possible explanation is that Thai drivers are so highly defensive (because they can't' trust anyone to follow any laws).

 

“The only possible explanation “ -??

 

Well first observation is you are making a false dichotomy –  you are only using “E” for enforcement and not the other 4 Es……you are also being lead again by perception rather than reality.

 

To get the figures – do the math.

Road deaths per 100 k in each country – divide that down by vehicle type then compare – in fact I used cars and pickups in the USA and EVERY kind of vehicle except M/Cs in Thailand …

 

Thailand deaths per 100k in 4- wheeled (private, buses and commercial vehicles etc) =  8.829

USA – deaths per 100k in 4 wheeled (private only) = 10.6

-       [Insurance Institute for Highway Safety]

 

The truth is that the USA has a very poor road death rate and vey high alcohol driving rate too. Just looking at the death rate alone it is 4 times that of UK and other EU countries. (6 times that of Sweden) and only a third of the death rate of Thailand.

 

Unlike places like Europe, Australia and New Zealand the USA haven’t adopted the “safe System’.

The motoring laws are enforced individually state by state the figures put then 4 to 5 time higher than the better nations in Europe.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

56 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Is what you're saying across all these comments is Thailand is actually safer and has overall better drivers than developed countries like in Europe or the USA and it's actually just our bad reasoning skills which is leading us to believe it's dangerous? Nothing you're saying appears to be anywhere near reality so I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from.

I think now you are just "sealioning" ... 

Again you make another false dichotomy - your really need to brush up your critical thinking skills. - Nowhere in any of my posts have I said anything like you are suggesting. -

 

I'm explaining both why Thai death rate is so high and why most people on this thread don't understand why as they don't understand road safety

 

Nowhere in any of my posts have I said anything like you are suggesting. - but the btuse resistance by the public, media and authorities to understand th road safety "Safe System" means that there can be no significant improvement in Thai road safey - this I have said at least once before on this thread alone.

 

Your reasoning skills and prejudgements are leading your failure to understand the topic of road safety.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Thailand deaths per 100k in 4- wheeled (private, buses and commercial vehicles etc) =  8.829

USA – deaths per 100k in 4 wheeled (private only) = 10.6

-       [Insurance Institute for Highway Safety]

 

These numbers are hard to believe but If that's true then maybe the US should abolish all traffic enforcement like in Thailand? It seems having people hold licenses is not helping the US either and maybe they should do away with that also.

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

Your reasoning skills and prejudgements are leading your failure to understand the topic of road safety.

well you make very little sense and come across as a Thai boot licker but I can't understand your big brain arguments well enough so who knows.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

Is what you're saying across all these comments is Thailand is actually safer and has overall better drivers than developed countries like in Europe or the USA and it's actually just our bad reasoning skills which is leading us to believe it's dangerous? Nothing you're saying appears to be anywhere near reality so I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from.

Perhaps you are being baited, as am I. One wonders where the sources are for his infinite treasure chest of reports and how can those reports be depended upon here? 

[kwilco]

25 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

These numbers are hard to believe but If that's true then maybe the US should abolish all traffic enforcement like in Thailand? It seems having people hold licenses is not helping the US either and maybe they should do away with that also.

Again you're clinging to a  false dichotomy - E for enforcement is only one factor in road safety.

OK you mention licences too - licenses - this comes under E for education - and a "test" is only part of driver education which should be life-long learning - but in most cases it is just the accumulation of bad habits.

We also know tht until the last decade or so the US driving test in most states was a joke - in fact the Thai test isn't that bad - it's just avoided by many people.

Try getting an American to reverse park a car without laughing.

Thais tend to look on driving as a necessity - something for work and goods - cars are a recent addition.

In America driving is seen a a right

InEurope it's seen as a privilege.

All result in a different attitude to driving.

 

Picking out or clutching at single issues - driving laws, licences will never give you an overview of road safety anywhere - the figures that you seem to fail to understand are not individual cases or personal anecdote - tey involve MILLIONS of motorists very few of whom drive "recklessly" 0 iit is their normal behaviour that when gathered into statistics give you an overall picture of what is happening..

 

Remember the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[kwilco]

33 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

well you make very little sense and come across as a Thai boot licker but I can't understand your big brain arguments well enough so who knows.

I think that kind of remark says more about yourself than anything.

[radiochaser]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:28 AM, NorthernRyland said:

LOL. Are you serious?

I believe he is.