Barclays UK On-shore Accounts

[doctormann]

Just a heads up for those with Barclays on-shore accounts who do not have a UK address.

 

I just received a notification that my Barclays current account and savings account will be closed on 30 August 2023 as I no longer have a registered UK address.  Wonderful service after 60 years of customer loyalty - NOT!!  Barclaycard pulled the same stunt some years ago and my credit cards got cancelled so I have been expecting this for some time.  This is going to cause big problems for those people who do not have alternative banking arrangements - how are their pensions going to get paid now!

 

Fortunately, in my case, I do have a Barclays International account which, apparently, is not affected by the new rules so, presumably, I can get my pensions paid into that account.  This will probably be a PITA to arrange but should, at least be doable.  We'll see.

[Crossy]

Yeah, it's UK banking legislation that account holders must be UK resident.

 

Banks are gradually clamping down so everyone should really be making suitable arrangements. I suggest it's not a matter of "if" more a matter of "when" your account will get pulled ???? 

 

I do maintain a UK address via my parents but that isn't going to last forever (both are in their 90s) and I really don't want to impose on my baby sister.

 

I already have an IoM account with Lloyds (USD, Sterling and Euro) so if the worst happens, I'll move all my banking over there.

 

[doctormann]

I've just been checking with the UK gov International Pensions site on how to change my banking details.  Can't do it by email  - as usual - so it's either by 'phone or by snail mail.  I can imagine just how frustrating a phone call is likely to be - but I will try it, once the UK wakes up - so I'll probably do it via EMS, which should work.

 

My occupational pension provider's web site is also unhelpful as there is no option there to change banking details.  At least, they do reply to emails so I've asked them what I need to do.  Probably will require snail mail again but we'll see.

 

Crossy, did you have to provide proof of address as far as using your parents' address was concerned - like a Council Tax bill or something like that?  When my Barclaycard account got closed it wasn't enough to just give an address - you actually needed proof that you lived there and a Council Tax bill seemed to be the only thing that was acceptable.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yeah, it's UK banking legislation that account holders must be UK resident.

 

Banks are gradually clamping down so everyone should really be making suitable arrangements. I suggest it's not a matter of "if" more a matter of "when" your account will get pulled ???? 

 

I do maintain a UK address via my parents but that isn't going to last forever (both are in their 90s) and I really don't want to impose on my baby sister.

 

I already have an IoM account with Lloyds (USD, Sterling and Euro) so if the worst happens, I'll move all my banking over there.

 

As an international gypsy since 1977, it is a struggle these days. After my parents passed, the 'holding address' duties were taken on by my sister. Then she had a stroke just before Covid and working through my autistic niece was challenging. I shifted my address to my mate's place last summer and all under control for the moment but he's planning on retiring, selling his house and moving to Thailand!

 

There are several UK companies that wil provide a mailing address and have different packages for either opening/scanning/emailing or physical mail forwarding. If you form a company through an agency, some of those will include the same mail holding/processing/forwarding for a fee.

 

I held onto a PO Box in the US for several years after my departure but gradually the expense wasn't worth it. As banks, businesses and subscriptions pushed for more electronic document format and less physical mail, there was no point in paying my lawyer's assistant to do the monthly box emptying and forwarding. I still use their office address to satisfy the residency rules but for the likes of online purchases, there's a couple of international package consolidation and forwarding services that work fine.

[NanLaew]

37 minutes ago, doctormann said:

When my Barclaycard account got closed it wasn't enough to just give an address - you actually needed proof that you lived there and a Council Tax bill seemed to be the only thing that was acceptable.

That's a worry. I opened a Barclay's account as a backup in 2018 and my only two walk-in dealings have been quite fraught as the 'advisor' was pretty obvious in trying to catch if I was truly a UK resident. One trick question was reading out my street address as she typed on the computer, then qucikly turning to look at me while asking innocently, "Whereabouts is that?" Luckily, I know the town well enough that it's not in any named borough so the confident answer was "You know, off the A9, between the industrial estate and the river."

Edited February 28, 2023 by NanLaew

[Crossy]

37 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Crossy, did you have to provide proof of address as far as using your parents' address was concerned - like a Council Tax bill or something like that?

 

They've not moved for a number of years, I used to be on the electoral roll (probably still am) which, at the time, was adequate. They're not likely to move again.

 

Hopefully they're both good to get their telegram from The King ???? 

 

[doctormann]

Well, just to put the icing on the cake, UK International Pensions now want a life certificate from me!

Ah well, been there and done that before.

Of course, as per usual, the documents were sent out by snail mail so they will need to be returned by EMS to stand a chance of arriving on time.  Why they cannot set up a secure email system just defeats me.  How hard can it be!

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

That's a worry. I opened a Barclay's account as a backup in 2018 and my only two walk-in dealings have been quite fraught as the 'advisor' was pretty obvious in trying to catch if I was truly a UK resident. One trick question was reading out my street address as she typed on the computer, then qucikly turning to look at me while asking innocently, "Whereabouts is that?" Luckily, I know the town well enough that it's not in any named borough so the confident answer was "You know, off the A9, between the industrial estate and the river."

 

I have just 'switched' my Barclays account to First Direct. I only had 2 small insurance direct debits on the account (from a much earlier switching exercise).

 

Piece of cake online.........and they gave me GBP 175 ????

[phetphet]

7 hours ago, doctormann said:

Fortunately, in my case, I do have a Barclays International account which, apparently, is not affected by the new rules

Don't those accounts charge the Earth to maintain?

[doctormann]

11 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Don't those accounts charge the Earth to maintain?

Depends on what balance you keep in the account.  If you are relatively wealthy it costs you nothing.  I'm not, so I have to pay a 40 quid a month fee, which I am not happy about.  Additionally, every transfer of funds into my Thai bank costs 15 quid.  Transfers from the on-shore account are free - but the account will soon be closed.

 

Going back to 2004, when I moved out here, Barclays told me that I needed an international account in order to make transfers to Thailand.  I suspect that they lied as I have never needed to use it and have just transferred from the on-shore account with zero issues.  I seriously considered closing the international account but couldn't get a straight answer from Barclays as to if I actually needed it.  Maybe, seeing what has happened now, it's a good job that I kept it open.

[doctormann]

35 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

I have just 'switched' my Barclays account to First Direct. I only had 2 small insurance direct debits on the account (from a much earlier switching exercise).

 

Piece of cake online.........and they gave me GBP 175 ????

Interesting - but is it possible to do this without being a UK resident?

[phetphet]

1 minute ago, doctormann said:

Depends on what balance you keep in the account.  If you are relatively wealthy it costs you nothing.  I'm not, so I have to pay a 40 quid a month fee, which I am not happy about.  Additionally, every transfer of funds into my Thai bank costs 15 quid.  Transfers from the on-shore account are free - but the account will soon be closed.

 

Going back to 2004, when I moved out here, Barclays told me that I needed an international account in order to make transfers to Thailand.  I suspect that they lied as I have never needed to use it and have just transferred from the on-shore account with zero issues.  I seriously considered closing the international account but couldn't get a straight answer from Barclays as to if I actually needed it.  Maybe, seeing what has happened now, it's a good job that I kept it open.

Would you still be charged if you transferred the money from your international account to Wise, and then did the transfer from there?

[doctormann]

Just now, phetphet said:

Would you still be charged if you transferred the money from your international account to Wise, and then did the transfer from there?

No idea.  I've never really considered Wise - seems to give problems with proving that transfers are international.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

Well, just to put the icing on the cake, UK International Pensions now want a life certificate from me!

Ah well, been there and done that before.

Of course, as per usual, the documents were sent out by snail mail so they will need to be returned by EMS to stand a chance of arriving on time.  Why they cannot set up a secure email system just defeats me.  How hard can it be!

 

My small PPF (Pension Protection Fund) pension uses an App "mypensionID" which is a piece of cake once set up. They just send me an email each year and the app takes a selfie and another where I blink (to show I'm alive I assume). Easy peasy ????

 

[doctormann]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

My small PPF (Pension Protection Fund) pension uses an App "mypensionID" which is a piece of cake once set up. They just send me an email each year and the app takes a selfie and another where I blink (to show I'm alive I assume). Easy peasy ????

 

I cant' see UK Gov ever being so logical and sensible.  Bureaucracy rules!!

[Eff1n2ret]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

I used to be on the electoral roll (probably still am)

Unless your parents have included you on their return, you are probably not still on the electoral roll. It is quite easy to register as an overseas voter in your former constituency, and the "15 years limit" has recently been abolished, so you can stay on for life, subject to re-registering every year, which is quite easy, I do it by email. In practice the only way to vote is to nominate a proxy, which again is quite easy.

None of that, however, is of any assistance in opening or retaining a UK bank account, which is the topic. I have been with First Direct for a long time before I moved to Thailand, but a few years ago they stopped me opening any new savings account with them because of non-residence. I will be very sorry if they close my account altogether.

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, doctormann said:

I cant' see UK Gov ever being so logical and sensible.  Bureaucracy rules!!

 

Sadly, i suspect you are correct ???? 

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

None of that, however, is of any assistance in opening or retaining a UK bank account, which is the topic.

 

Yeah, it's a looong time since I switched to my parent's address when my ex. moved and told me to "make other arrangements", and I thought we had an amicable divorce!

[hotandsticky]

54 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Depends on what balance you keep in the account.  If you are relatively wealthy it costs you nothing.  I'm not, so I have to pay a 40 quid a month fee, which I am not happy about.  Additionally, every transfer of funds into my Thai bank costs 15 quid.  Transfers from the on-shore account are free - but the account will soon be closed.

 

Going back to 2004, when I moved out here, Barclays told me that I needed an international account in order to make transfers to Thailand.  I suspect that they lied as I have never needed to use it and have just transferred from the on-shore account with zero issues.  I seriously considered closing the international account but couldn't get a straight answer from Barclays as to if I actually needed it.  Maybe, seeing what has happened now, it's a good job that I kept it open.

 

Barclays have a habit of lying. Hopefully you won’t have too much tied up in the Channel Islands come your demise…….there is an extra layer of Probate to go through.

[hotandsticky]

50 minutes ago, doctormann said:

No idea.  I've never really considered Wise - seems to give problems with proving that transfers are international.

No it doesn’t. Thousands of expats in Thailand (like me) use the monthly income option for extensions - and use WISE. 

[hotandsticky]

59 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Interesting - but is it possible to do this without being a UK resident?

I did !

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

Well, just to put the icing on the cake, UK International Pensions now want a life certificate from me!

Ah well, been there and done that before.

Of course, as per usual, the documents were sent out by snail mail so they will need to be returned by EMS to stand a chance of arriving on time.  Why they cannot set up a secure email system just defeats me.  How hard can it be!

Why should that be an issue when you have 16 weeks to return the completed Life Cert?  I posted mine by registered mail on the 2nd February and it was delivered to the IPC/DWP on the 13th...that's 11 days, at least 13 weeks leeway.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

Interesting - but is it possible to do this without being a UK resident?

I did !

But did you fib a little?!

[doctormann]

26 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why should that be an issue when you have 16 weeks to return the completed Life Cert?  I posted mine by registered mail on the 2nd February and it was delivered to the IPC/DWP on the 13th...that's 11 days, at least 13 weeks leeway.

It becomes an issue when the documents take two months to get to me.  This is partially caused by the postal service in my area being absolutely appalling.  We see the postie maybe once a month, if we are lucky, and items arrive that are often months old.

 

OK, in the current case I should have plenty of time to return the documents BUT I have known registered mail to the UK to take several weeks - usually gets stuck in the Heathrow Langley sorting office.  EMS at least ensures that the item gets on the first available flight out of Suvarnabhumi, whereas registered mail can wait around for a while, until the mail container is sufficiently full to warrant dispatch.  Registered mail is not guaranteed to be any faster than unregistered - but at least you can track it.

[doctormann]

40 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

I did !

I took a look on the First Direct website - clearly say UK residents only so maybe not possible to do any longer.

[doctormann]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

No it doesn’t. Thousands of expats in Thailand (like me) use the monthly income option for extensions - and use WISE. 

The problem seems to arise when the intermediary bank that Wise pays into registers the payment as local, rather than international.  This is unacceptable to Immigration so the payee gets involved in a paper chase, trying to prove that the payments were international.  This may not be a problem with all banks but it certainly does happen.  Many reports of difficulties have been reported on this forum.

 

Which bank do you use?  I am with TTB - used to be TMB until they merged with Thanachart.  Not the best but all I could get at the time (2004) as others that I tried wanted a work permit and as a retiree I didn't have one, of course!!

[foreverlomsak]

9 hours ago, Crossy said:

I already have an IoM account with Lloyds (USD, Sterling and Euro) so if the worst happens, I'll move all my banking over there.

My Lloyds GBP account is based in Jersey, according the latest statement (Nov 2022) with a correspondence address in Douglas IoM.

They have been requesting on the account statement, for a quite a while, that I provide a Tax Identification Number (TIN) and Tax Residency Information. As I live permanently in Thailand (and they are well aware of that as they have sent 108 statements plus cheque books and credit cards to me here, since they "took over" my Bank of Scotland International account), this means I am Tax Resident in Thailand (here for more than 180 days per year) and if I obtain a Thai TIN, I could find myself liable for tax in both countries.

The old Double Taxation (i.e. tax due only where the income was generated) agreement has gone. The latest agreement I have seen leaves you wide open to being taxed twice, with civil servants only being able claim relief on UK tax, if they get taxed twice on their civil service pension. 

[hotandsticky]

7 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

But did you fib a little?!

I don't recall doing....I used my UK correspondence address...

 

I can't recall whether the phrase 'UK resident ' appeared anywhere or not......

[hotandsticky]

6 hours ago, doctormann said:

The problem seems to arise when the intermediary bank that Wise pays into registers the payment as local, rather than international.  This is unacceptable to Immigration so the payee gets involved in a paper chase, trying to prove that the payments were international.  This may not be a problem with all banks but it certainly does happen.  Many reports of difficulties have been reported on this forum.

 

Which bank do you use?  I am with TTB - used to be TMB until they merged with Thanachart.  Not the best but all I could get at the time (2004) as others that I tried wanted a work permit and as a retiree I didn't have one, of course!!

I am with Kasikorn.

 

It is only an issue if you, or your Immigration office, make it an issue.

 

I supplied the standard bank letter plus 12 months statements where I highlighted the monthly transfers. I also had a PDF for each transfer but the IO showed no interest in those 

[hotandsticky]

6 hours ago, doctormann said:

I took a look on the First Direct website - clearly say UK residents only so maybe not possible to do any longer.

I did it a couple of weeks ago. 

 

That is why @Liverpool Lou asked if I fibbed. In the context of using my UK correspondence address, then I guess I did.