Asylum plan 'very concerning' and would break international law - UN refugee agency

[James105]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I should thank you for this link. Every time someone makes claims about the heavy and oppressive hand of the EU, and how the UK and other nations need to liberate themselves from it,  it will use your link.

Please do, although the EU is not the ECHR (which has 47 members) and was formed in 1950 so it would be completely irrelevant to whatever point you think you would be making by using it.       

[transam]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, if I'm off topic then so are you. You're the person who stated that they don't consult a certain news source. How is that relevant?

Silly statement, gawd 'elp us.......  

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

Please do, although the EU is not the ECHR (which has 47 members) and was formed in 1950 so it would be completely irrelevant to whatever point you think you would be making by using it.       

Unfortunately for me, that's a fair point you are making.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Silly statement, gawd 'elp us.......  

Thank you for your  reply. Next time, don't bother supplying so many reasoned arguments to support your case.

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I avoid more Brexit stuff 

why are you even debating about returning refugees to their previous country of travel then?

 

Do you even realize Brexit cancelled the Dublin III Regulation which enabled the UK to return asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims?

 

apparently this is what you would like to do, but sorry, this is not possible anymore, because of "Brexit stuff". 

 

Brexit has made it considerably easier for small boat crossings to reach the UK that's why record numbers of people cross the Channel now.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Hi from France said:

why are you even debating about returning refugees to their previous country of travel then?

 

Do you even realize Brexit cancelled the Dublin III Regulation which enabled the UK to return asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims?

 

apparently this is what you would like to do, but sorry, this is not possible anymore, because of "Brexit stuff". Brexit has made it considerably easier for small boat crossings to reach UK

I don't care what it cancelled, just get on with getting stuff sorted to stop/remove the spongers....????

[Hi from France]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't care what it cancelled, just get on with getting stuff sorted to stop/remove the spongers....????

well you just can't "get stuff sorted" refugees who have fled a variety of conflict zones including Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Eritrea are there

 

....and the UK must take its share there no way around this and it's a good think the UK stopped being an EU member and now starts having to take its responsibilities.

 

 

anyway the country is in dire need of builders (in London half of them are foreign), fruit pickers, carers for the elderly....

[Hi from France]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

LONDON — Three things are certain in life: death, taxes, and U.K. Tory leaders flirting with leaving the European Convention on Human Rights.

https://www.politico.eu/article/tories-prime-minister-quit-echr-david-cameron-theresa-may-boris-johnson-liz-truss-rishi-sunak/

I like that one 

 

Quote

 

Boris Johnson

---

After May’s departure, it was down to the ever-consistent Boris Johnson to try and crack this particular Tory nut.

Johnson — who had previously described the ECHR as “one of the great things we gave to Europe

“one of the great things we gave to Europe"

 

thank you Boris

[vinny41]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Repeating yourself much? It's clear you have no answer for the point i raised. Still...

 

The Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement 1998 created a duty on the UK government to incorporate the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) into domestic law “with direct access to the courts, and remedies for breach of the Convention, including the power for the courts to overrule Assembly legislation on the grounds of inconsistency”.1 This incorporation was achieved through the HRA.2

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/23735/pdf/

 

The Human Rights Act, and the European Convention on Human Rights that it incorporates, are embedded as a key pillar of devolution. Convention rights run through the Good Friday Agreement, set the framework for post-conflict policing, and restrain the Northern Ireland Assembly.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/belfast-and-beyond/human-rights-act-overhaul-could-undermine-good-friday-agreement

You do know that your posting on a forum and the amnesty blog is just another opinion piece 

I must admit I find it strange that when cases reach the UK supreme court that they take so long to deliberate over each case where they could save time by simply saying here a link provided by placeholder which indicates its a slam dunk next case please

[vinny41]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Repeating yourself much? It's clear you have no answer for the point i raised. Still...

 

The Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement 1998 created a duty on the UK government to incorporate the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) into domestic law “with direct access to the courts, and remedies for breach of the Convention, including the power for the courts to overrule Assembly legislation on the grounds of inconsistency”.1 This incorporation was achieved through the HRA.2

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/23735/pdf/

 

The Human Rights Act, and the European Convention on Human Rights that it incorporates, are embedded as a key pillar of devolution. Convention rights run through the Good Friday Agreement, set the framework for post-conflict policing, and restrain the Northern Ireland Assembly.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/belfast-and-beyond/human-rights-act-overhaul-could-undermine-good-friday-agreement

You do know that your posting on a forum and the amnesty blog is just another opinion piece 

I must admit I find it strange that when cases reach the UK supreme court that they take so long to deliberate over each case where they could save time by simply saying here a link provided by placeholder which indicates its a slam dunk next case please

[vinny41]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Repeating yourself much? It's clear you have no answer for the point i raised. Still...

 

The Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement 1998 created a duty on the UK government to incorporate the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) into domestic law “with direct access to the courts, and remedies for breach of the Convention, including the power for the courts to overrule Assembly legislation on the grounds of inconsistency”.1 This incorporation was achieved through the HRA.2

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/23735/pdf/

 

The Human Rights Act, and the European Convention on Human Rights that it incorporates, are embedded as a key pillar of devolution. Convention rights run through the Good Friday Agreement, set the framework for post-conflict policing, and restrain the Northern Ireland Assembly.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/belfast-and-beyond/human-rights-act-overhaul-could-undermine-good-friday-agreement

You do know that your posting on a forum and the amnesty blog is just another opinion piece 

I must admit I find it strange that when cases reach the UK supreme court that they take so long to deliberate over each case where they could save time by simply saying here a link provided by placeholder which indicates its a slam dunk next case please

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You do know that your posting on a forum and the amnesty blog is just another opinion piece 

I must admit I find it strange that when cases reach the UK supreme court that they take so long to deliberate over each case where they could save time by simply saying here a link provided by placeholder which indicates its a slam dunk next case please

Even if that's the case, I notice you haven't addressed my link to the uk parliamentary report. Or is that your idea of an opinion piece, too?

 

 

[Will B Good]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:15 AM, Social Media said:

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has said he is "up for the fight"

Sounds like he's been infected with the dreaded 'small man' complex.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Even if that's the case, I notice you haven't addressed my link to the uk parliamentary report. Or is that your idea of an opinion piece, too?

 

 

If your not aware this is a public forum I don't work for you and I will post as I see fit

[placeholder]

Just now, vinny41 said:

If your not aware this is a public forum I don't work for you and I will post as I see fit

Where have I questioned your right to post? Stop setting up straw men.

Clearly you have no answer for the fact that I also linked to a parliamentary report on the issue.

[Will B Good]

On 3/8/2023 at 2:05 PM, Denim said:

Cool. So what is needed to stop illegal channel crossings and people trafficking ?

Legal routes through which they can apply.

[vinny41]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Where have I questioned your right to post? Stop setting up straw men.

Clearly you have no answer for the fact that I also linked to a parliamentary report on the issue.

If the Uk Goverment wanted to leave the ECHR they will, no amount of posts by yourself will prevent that outcome

Repeating the great leader Tony Blair "Am I bothered"

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If the Uk Goverment wanted to leave the ECHR they will, no amount of posts by yourself will prevent that outcome

Repeating the great leader Tony Blair "Am I bothered"

Which, of course, is utterly irrelevant to your skepticism about the ECHRJ being Incorporated into the Good Friday agreement.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Which, of course, is utterly irrelevant to your skepticism about the ECHRJ being Incorporated into the Good Friday agreement.

Repeating the great leader Tony Blair "Am I bothered"

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

Brexit has made it considerably easier for small boat crossings to reach the UK that's why record numbers of people cross the Channel now.

Explain please - how has Brexit made it easier for a boat to get from France to the UK? Has it made the waves smaller? 

 

The record number of Channel crossings is more likely due to the people trafficking industry expanding - because they make millions from it.

[James105]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

why are you even debating about returning refugees to their previous country of travel then?

 

Do you even realize Brexit cancelled the Dublin III Regulation which enabled the UK to return asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims?

 

apparently this is what you would like to do, but sorry, this is not possible anymore, because of "Brexit stuff". 

 

Brexit has made it considerably easier for small boat crossings to reach the UK that's why record numbers of people cross the Channel now.

People often cite the "Dublin agreement" as though it really allowed the UK to return asylum seekers who came to the UK on small boat crossings.   It did not.

 

"There were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece. There were just 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France."

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/444/transfers-of-asylum-seekers-from-the-uk-under-the-dublin-system#:~:text=There were just 209 transfers,4.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

why are you even debating about returning refugees to their previous country of travel then?

 

Do you even realize Brexit cancelled the Dublin III Regulation which enabled the UK to return asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims?

 

apparently this is what you would like to do, but sorry, this is not possible anymore, because of "Brexit stuff". 

 

Brexit has made it considerably easier for small boat crossings to reach the UK that's why record numbers of people cross the Channel now.

Nonsense. It's the French who are making it easier.

[vinny41]

Here a Case of 

Ireland is asking its citizens to leave the country if they can't find a job in a desperate bid to slash Irish welfare costs

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/unemployed-told-to-leave-ireland-in-desperate-move-to-slash-welfare-costs-9002720.html

Ireland isn't the only country doing it 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where did I say that, so stop making it up!

But you felt it was perfectly ok to take what I said and make it into something else, hypocritical or what!

You should respond to what is posted, not what you think is posted.

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Explain please - how has Brexit made it easier for a boat to get from France to the UK? Has it made the waves smaller? 

 

The record number of Channel crossings is more likely due to the people trafficking industry expanding - because they make millions from it.

The boat crossings have gone up as lorry crossings have gone down.

The crossings are less likely to be impeded by the French as the UK left the Dublin Regulation and things are no longer a level playing field, it could be said the waves have become smaller.

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Explain please - how has Brexit made it easier for a boat to get from France to the UK? Has it made the waves smaller? 

 

The record number of Channel crossings is more likely due to the people trafficking industry expanding - because they make millions from it.

same perilous sea but smuggling is easier, because if they are caught they cannot be sent back.

 

Now they just have to cross the border in the middle of the Channel and it's just done, no “take charge” requests no expulsion

 

.. and no need to hide once you're in UK waters, you can just call the help hotline : 0043 50 43 112

 

Quote

 

when the UK was part of the EU, under a mechanism known as Dublin the UK could ask other EU countries to take back people they could prove had passed through safe European countries before reaching the UK.

 

The UK could make “take charge” requests and officials were often able to prove that asylum seekers had passed through other countries thanks to the Eurodac fingerprint database. But since Brexit the UK no longer has access to that database, so it is harder to prove definitively which other European countries small boat arrivals to the UK have previously passed through.

 

so it's technically less dangerous since you're able to call the lifeboat halfway out

 

 

One 19-year-old man from Sudan who is currently in Calais said: “We believe we will not be safe unless we can reach the UK. Here the French police beat us and evict us every day from the places where we are sleeping outside. It brings back bad memories from Libya where I was locked up and beaten many times by traffickers. Because of Brexit I believe that once I reach the UK I will be safe at last. No Dublin, no fingerprints any more.”

 

He said he had no money to pay smugglers and would try to find a way to cross with a small group of friends in an abandoned kayak. “Every night we go to the beach to look for small boats that have been abandoned and we will try to cross that way.”

 

 

 

in a kayak.... god

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/12/brexit-easier-small-boat-crossings-to-reach-uk-refugees-say

 

 

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

same perilous sea but smuggling is easier, because if they are caught they cannot be sent back.

 

Now they just have to cross the border in the middle of the Channel and it's just done, no “take charge” requests no need to hide once you're in UK waters, you can call the help hotline

 

 

 

One 19-year-old man from Sudan who is currently in Calais said: “We believe we will not be safe unless we can reach the UK. Here the French police beat us and evict us every day from the places where we are sleeping outside. It brings back bad memories from Libya where I was locked up and beaten many times by traffickers. Because of Brexit I believe that once I reach the UK I will be safe at last. No Dublin, no fingerprints any more.”

 

He said he had no money to pay smugglers and would try to find a way to cross with a small group of friends in an abandoned kayak. “Every night we go to the beach to look for small boats that have been abandoned and we will try to cross that way.”

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/12/brexit-easier-small-boat-crossings-to-reach-uk-refugees-say

 

 

 

He said "Because of Brexit" blah blah blah, so a kid from Sudan knows all about Brexit................Your 'story' does read like something out of a novel...A Biggles era one.....????

[Hi from France]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

He said "Because of Brexit" blah blah blah, so a kid from Sudan knows all about Brexit................Your 'story' does read like something out of a novel... 

you just read the Guardian, one of the leading world newspapers, fiercely independent

 

 

congrats ????

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

you just read the Guardian, one of the leading world newspapers, fiercely independent

 

 

congrats ????

And it was nonsense...............

Congrats....????

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Here a Case of 

Ireland is asking its citizens to leave the country if they can't find a job in a desperate bid to slash Irish welfare costs

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/unemployed-told-to-leave-ireland-in-desperate-move-to-slash-welfare-costs-9002720.html

Ireland isn't the only country doing it 

Brilliant! At the same time Ireland expects migrants to be a large percentage of an expected population jump of one million by 2040 (20%), (Project Ireland 2040), the Irish are already asking natives to leave! Many Irish citizens oppose this much migration and there have been several demonstrations already. The EU freedom of movement pillar is past its sell-by date.

 

https://www.sant.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/dahrendorf_essay_maeve_moynihan.pdf