Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan warns that those in power who support coups still exist

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In 2010 red shirts barricaded the streets for months, and they burnt a substantial part of the city, because their leader paid them to do that. Thaksin wanted "his" money back. It had nothing to do with democracy. 

Any proof that Thaksin paid for all those protesters?

 

Don't you think the judicial coup that installed Abhisit as PM had something to do with the protests?

 

Most important:  Why don't you address the obvious corruption of the military coup leaders in the unnecessary coups?

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The same voters who vote again and again for criminals and known corrupt politicians? 

Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  A thousand times Yes!

 

Better corrupt elected leaders than corrupt unelected coup leaders.  That's a no-brainer; elections allow unpopular leaders to be removed.  There is no such mechanism for military rulers.

Edited March 13, 2023 by heybruce

[scorecard]

17 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  A thousand times Yes!

 

Better corrupt elected leaders than corrupt unelected coup leaders.  That's a no-brainer; elections allow unpopular leaders to be removed.  There is no such mechanism for military rulers.

The reality is that the military have a long nasty history of being the rulers/decision makers etc., (under the king) and even now plenty believe they are entitled to continue that scenario.

 

Many members will recall the general* who about 3 years back took his turn at the top pf the military and was very outspoken (*son of the nasty general who 2+ decades back pushed the public and elected officials aside, with quite some violence and death, and forceably set  himself and 2 more outspoken generals up as the prime minister (Gen S.) and 2 general sidekicks). Many will also remember the live news on TV pool with Gen S and an opposition politican protrated on the floor at the feet of the then K., as they were given a very severe scolding and told to get things back into order.

MODS, IF THIS COMMENT IS TOO STRONG OR TOO CLOSE TO THE LAW PLEASE REMOVE MY POST.

Edited March 13, 2023 by scorecard

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Any proof that Thaksin paid for all those protesters?

 

Don't you think the judicial coup that installed Abhisit as PM had something to do with the protests?

 

Most important:  Why don't you address the obvious corruption of the military coup leaders in the unnecessary coups?

The coups wouldn't have happened without Thaksin and his little sister. 

I hope they die in the desert and never return to Thailand.

And I hope one day the majority of Thais will vote for honest competent people. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  A thousand times Yes!

 

Better corrupt elected leaders than corrupt unelected coup leaders.  That's a no-brainer; elections allow unpopular leaders to be removed.  There is no such mechanism for military rulers.

I agree, it has a lot to do with people who have no brain or don't use it. 

[Burma Bill]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I hope they die in the desert and never return to Thailand.

Personally, I hope Bangkok sinks into the mire along with it's "elite"!

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In 2010 red shirts barricaded the streets for months, and they burnt a substantial part of the city, because their leader paid them to do that. Thaksin wanted "his" money back. It had nothing to do with democracy. 

 

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Any proof that Thaksin paid for all those protesters?

 

Don't you think the judicial coup that installed Abhisit as PM had something to do with the protests?

 

Most important:  Why don't you address the obvious corruption of the military coup leaders in the unnecessary coups?

I think that you must take a more reasonable view my hot-headed friend @heybruce.

 

The Thai people were merely protesting having the government which they had elected taken from them for the second time in three years, whereas our enthusiast for the smack of firm government was seriously inconvenienced - he couldn't use his nearest bus stop for weeks!

[herfiehandbag]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I hope they die in the desert and never return to Thailand

 Is posting such a hope allowed?

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Any proof that Thaksin paid for all those protesters?

 

Don't you think the judicial coup that installed Abhisit as PM had something to do with the protests?

 

Most important:  Why don't you address the obvious corruption of the military coup leaders in the unnecessary coups?

Or the influential circles that instigate the green lights for such coups and establishment insurrection. 

It all starts from the top. 

Something that we tend to dismiss or ignore within our analysis. 

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The coups wouldn't have happened without Thaksin and his little sister. 

I hope they die in the desert and never return to Thailand.

And I hope one day the majority of Thais will vote for honest competent people. 

Really?  There were no coups in Thailand before Thaksin?  I guess all the history books are wrong.

 

The coups happened because the Thai people elected people who threatened the established order.  The fact that that is what the Thai voters wanted didn't matter to the elites. 

 

The current constitution was written to weaken democracy and strengthen the hand of the elites, but if it proves insufficient to the task there will be another coup.  Coups will continue until democracy is allowed to survive long enough to become established and the military experts at overthrowing governments age out.

 

Have you ever considered what might have happened if the 2014 coup had not happened?  The popularity of the Shinawatras was in steep decline and other parties promising a better democracy were being formed.  The coup put the Shinawatras back on the pedestal as martyrs for democracy and eliminated the opportunity to get rid of them democratically.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Or the influential circles that instigate the green lights for such coups and establishment insurrection. 

It all starts from the top. 

Something that we tend to dismiss or ignore within our analysis. 

Actually we don't ignore it, we're aware that we aren't allowed to post about it.

[Scott Tracy]

No <deleted> Sherlock. Coups are the way of Thailand and have been for every long time. This is the Thai way. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Really?  There were no coups in Thailand before Thaksin?  I guess all the history books are wrong.

 

The coups happened because the Thai people elected people who threatened the established order.  The fact that that is what the Thai voters wanted didn't matter to the elites. 

 

The current constitution was written to weaken democracy and strengthen the hand of the elites, but if it proves insufficient to the task there will be another coup.  Coups will continue until democracy is allowed to survive long enough to become established and the military experts at overthrowing governments age out.

 

Have you ever considered what might have happened if the 2014 coup had not happened?  The popularity of the Shinawatras was in steep decline and other parties promising a better democracy were being formed.  The coup put the Shinawatras back on the pedestal as martyrs for democracy and eliminated the opportunity to get rid of them democratically.

Interesting.

I was writing about the last two coups, I mentioned that several times. I was in Thailand when they happened and I have an idea why they happened.

Obviously there are history books about the last coups and the coups before that. But as always, those "books" are always written from the view of the authors and what really happened might have been different.

I like your idea that the Shinawatras might have been removed peacefully by a developing democracy. And maybe you are right, and maybe that would have happened. And maybe that would have happened in a year or two, and maybe much slower. And maybe with bad or not so bad fights. It's difficult to predict.

Looking i.e. at the USA with a long-established democracy, I don't get the impression that that democracy over there gets better over time. Maybe it would get better in Thailand, maybe not.

What I can say is when the last two coups happened in Thailand many people were not surprised. Because the pressure was rising, and the feeling was something had to happen. At that time there didn't seem to be a clear democratic way forward.

So now looking forward to the next election let's see what happens. And let's see how the new elected government will use their power. Will they try to improve the lives of all Thais? Will they try to unite Thailand? Or will there be another attempt to whitewash the criminal fugitive? If that happens, that will divide the nation further, and maybe the consequences will be similar like in the recent past.

I hope for a competent honest government which will bring happiness to all Thais and people who live in Thailand. It would be wonderful if no coup will ever happen again. We will see.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Interesting.

I was writing about the last two coups, I mentioned that several times. I was in Thailand when they happened and I have an idea why they happened.

Obviously there are history books about the last coups and the coups before that. But as always, those "books" are always written from the view of the authors and what really happened might have been different.

I like your idea that the Shinawatras might have been removed peacefully by a developing democracy. And maybe you are right, and maybe that would have happened. And maybe that would have happened in a year or two, and maybe much slower. And maybe with bad or not so bad fights. It's difficult to predict.

Looking i.e. at the USA with a long-established democracy, I don't get the impression that that democracy over there gets better over time. Maybe it would get better in Thailand, maybe not.

What I can say is when the last two coups happened in Thailand many people were not surprised. Because the pressure was rising, and the feeling was something had to happen. At that time there didn't seem to be a clear democratic way forward.

So now looking forward to the next election let's see what happens. And let's see how the new elected government will use their power. Will they try to improve the lives of all Thais? Will they try to unite Thailand? Or will there be another attempt to whitewash the criminal fugitive? If that happens, that will divide the nation further, and maybe the consequences will be similar like in the recent past.

I hope for a competent honest government which will bring happiness to all Thais and people who live in Thailand. It would be wonderful if no coup will ever happen again. We will see.

"What I can say is when the last two coups happened in Thailand many people were not surprised. Because the pressure was rising, and the feeling was something had to happen. At that time there didn't seem to be a clear democratic way forward."

 

There was a democratic way forward:  Elections.  The people would have voted for the candidates and parties that they thought would improve their lives.  Maybe the majority would have stuck with the Shinawatras, maybe they would have chosen another party.  However they would not have chosen a party that the military and other Bangkok elites wanted, so they had Suthep organize the protests and election interference.  Even the lame protests were rapidly losing steam, so the military acted before their excuse of restoring order lost all credibility.

 

In your time in Thailand, have you noticed that the military never takes actions against protesters undermining elections and elected leaders, but cracks down hard on protesters objecting to unelected leaders?

 

The nation isn't that divided, the majority want democracy.  Even Prayut and company know that, so they pretend the military installed government is a democracy even though it clearly isn't.  The only division is between the minority that benefit from the corrupt status quo, and everyone else.  Unfortunately the minority controls the guns.