On 4/7/2023 at 12:25 PM, Social Media said:

But the report also acknowledges that the government should have begun the evacuation of civilians earlier.

Mr Trump responded that the White House was playing a "disinformation game".

The deadly pull-out in August 2021 ended America's longest war.

Soooooo, Biden took over in January and the pull out was in August, but it's Trump's fault?

 

Pathetic, IMO.

 

https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/

miserably inadequate; of very low standard.

"he's a pathetic excuse for a man"

Many bickering posts regarding monetary costs and getting close to personal attacks have been removed.  Continue and suspensions will occur.

On 4/7/2023 at 1:57 PM, stoner said:

leaving weapons behind is common by the US army. logistics and cost make it more economical not to bring it home. 

Did they destroy them then, or leave them for the taliban to use? It's normal to destroy equipment left behind.

4 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Sadly, looks like biden will have to accept blame for this disaster, even if his fans are putting on a brave face and trying to weasel out of taking any responsibility(standard MO) for the moment - aided by activist msm. 

I'm sure he's looking for something to deflect attention from it though. No doubt something else to blame on Trump.

A baiting post has been removed. 

8 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

So the Trump Administration  agreed to completely pull out all US Governmental institutions and personnel from Afghanistan by August 31, 2021?  

No. As I told you before (Placeholder confirmed it and also posted a link about it), it was May in the agreement, not August.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US–Taliban_deal

Edited April 8, 20233 yr by candide

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Joe learned from his mentor Barack. 

Anything positive take credit for it.

Anything negative blame on the previous adminstration. 

I don't recall that.  I recall Obama inheriting two unfinished wars and an economy in freefall.  And I remember Trump inheriting a strong economy but insisting "I inherited a mess" in order to explain why he didn't keep his campaign promises.

 

In this case, Biden genuinely inherited a mess caused by Trump's cut-and-run peace plan.

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I don't recall that.  I recall Obama inheriting two unfinished wars and an economy in freefall.  And I remember Trump inheriting a strong economy but insisting "I inherited a mess" in order to explain why he didn't keep his campaign promises.

 

In this case, Biden genuinely inherited a mess caused by Trump's cut-and-run peace plan.

It's called a poisoned chalice. If Biden had opted to send troops back to Afghanistan, the Republicans would have exploited that. As it was, he followed through and got blamed. I think one piece of ineptitude that can be laid at the Biden Administrations withdrawal is that they didn't publicize that fact that what they were doing was in accordance with the agreement signed by the Trump Administration. That should have been put front and center.  Even someone like sqwakvfr, who clearly is personally very familiar with the situation inside Afghanistan, didn't know that it existed.

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did they destroy them then, or leave them for the taliban to use? It's normal to destroy equipment left behind.

Ask the Taliban!

Taliban angry at US for destroying military equipment: They destroyed national assets

"The Taliban expressed their anger at the US for destroying military equipment before their withdrawal from Afghanistan saying Americans destroyed their “national assets”.

Taliban member, Anas Haqqani said: “The US had deliberately destroyed military equipment including helicopters, military vehicles, and facilities,” according to Afghan news oulet Ariana news."

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2021/09/01/Taliban-angry-at-US-for-destroying-military-equipment-They-destroyed-national-assets

 

 

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's called a poisoned chalice. If Biden had opted to send troops back to Afghanistan, the Republicans would have exploited that. As it was, he followed through and got blamed. I think one piece of ineptitude that can be laid at the Biden Administrations withdrawal is that they didn't publicize that fact that what they were doing was in accordance with the agreement signed by the Trump Administration. That should have been put front and center.  Even someone like sqwakvfr, who clearly is personally very familiar with the situation inside Afghanistan, didn't know that it existed.

Exactly. Had Biden sent troops back to Afghanistan, the GOP and the MAGA fans hete would criticise him for extending the war, while Trump had negotiated a perfect peace deal.

No one is pointing out that when Trump signed his deal with Afghanistan the military knew the date and were still unprepared as it drew near.

I don't believe any politician is capable of organizing a military withdrawal. Military generals do. And they failed to be prepared. 

Edited April 8, 20233 yr by Purdey

It was a shatty withdrawl, Americans lost there live because of it and the whole world saw it unfurl on TV. Yes, Mr Biden it was your fault.

Well, let's see....

 

The self-proclaimed "Greatest Negotiator" released 5000 Taliban warriors and leaders frm prison and got NOTHING in return. Absolutely nothing. Then he planned to invite some of these same released prsioners to a meeting at Camp David to be held of September 11th. His staff informed him that would be 'bad optics'.

 

Those released captives went on to lead the takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban, and they now lead the country. It is highly likely those same leaders would have sanctioned the attack on the airport during the US withdrawal---a withdrawal to which trump committed the US.

 

AFter the trump commitment to withdraw, trump ordered no removal of any equipment and did not even order that anything be pre-positioned for removal, a process that would have taken the better part of a year (a country that spent 17 years building up cannot remove everything in an afternoon). Biden inherited the commitment and time table, so the fact hundreds of billions worth of gear was left abandoned falls largely on trump, too.

 

It seems much of what followed during the withdrawal was a direct result of what trump did. Besides, none of the right wing critics ever offered any alternative plan on how they would have done it, because there was no easy way once the Taliban leadership was back at full strength and closing in on Kabul for the final takeover.

 

1 hour ago, candide said:

No. As I told you before (Placeholder confirmed it and also posted a link about it), it was May in the agreement, not August.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US–Taliban_deal

i don't rely upon wikipeidis for accurate information.  Again did the agreement call for the complete withdrawal of all US Government personnel from Afghanistan and the closure of the Embassy by August 31, 2021?  Cannot seem to find a reliable source for the true answer.

Just now, sqwakvfr said:

i don't rely upon wikipeidis for accurate information.  Again did the agreement call for the complete withdrawal of all US Government personnel from Afghanistan and the closure of the Embassy by August 31, 2021?  Cannot seem to find a reliable source for the true answer.

Here's a link to the official text of the agreement

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

54 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

It was a shatty withdrawl, Americans lost there live because of it and the whole world saw it unfurl on TV. Yes, Mr Biden it was your fault.

Afghanistan fell faster than the military expected, largely due to the Taliban being reinforced by 5,000 seasoned fighters courtesy of Trump.

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well for you to claim everything the Pentagon says is fake, leaves little else to debate with you on that.

Everything. Zero truth coming from those heathens. It is the mission of the armed forces and the intelligence community to hold back information, and to mislead the public. 

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Wrong as per usual. That may be what you'd like the topic to be, but here's what it actually is: 

"Joe Biden administration blames chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump"

And I said "the topic problem still concerns the actual withdrawal and how badly it was managed", which amounts to the same thing. 

 

Unfortunately, Biden was the C-in-C and the responsibility is all his.

24 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

i don't rely upon wikipeidis for accurate information.  Again did the agreement call for the complete withdrawal of all US Government personnel from Afghanistan and the closure of the Embassy by August 31, 2021?  Cannot seem to find a reliable source for the true answer.

Is this source ok to you?

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-taliban-peace-deal-agreement-afghanistan-war

"all U.S. and other foreign troops will leave Afghanistan within fourteen months"

 

I let you do the calculation, knowing that the agreement was signed on February 29, 2020

 

Also this one:

"In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 20233 yr by candide

A post making unsubstantiated claims has been removed along with replies.

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Afghanistan fell faster than the military expected, largely due to the Taliban being reinforced by 5,000 seasoned fighters courtesy of Trump.

Susan Boyle - I had a dream.

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

And I said "the topic problem still concerns the actual withdrawal and how badly it was managed", which amounts to the same thing. 

 

Unfortunately, Biden was the C-in-C and the responsibility is all his.

False again. Joe Biden administration blames chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump

Not how badly it was managed. 

Also, I note that you seem to have no answer for the fact that the Trump administration continued the pullout despite the fact that the Taliban repeatedly violated the agreement.

 

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

False again. Joe Biden administration blames chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump

Not how badly it was managed. 

Also, I note that you seem to have no answer for the fact that the Trump administration continued the pullout despite the fact that the Taliban repeatedly violated the agreement.

 

What is false is Joe Biden's administration blaming the chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump. It's down to Joe  Co. 

Just now, nauseus said:

What is false is Joe Biden's administration blaming the chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump. It's down to Joe  Co. 

Thank you for your marshalling of zero evidence to support your claim. Maybe you believe that if you say it repeatedly that makes it true?

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thank you for your marshalling of zero evidence to support your claim. Maybe you believe that if you say it repeatedly that makes it true?

That's exactly what this whitewash report has done. 

Just now, nauseus said:

That's exactly what this whitewash report has done. 

From the landing page of the World News Forum:

Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

Perhaps many of the aircraft could have been flown out, but the helicopters and drones would need to be transported out by air. Anything wheeled might have been driven out but tracked vehicles would need to be transported.

 

That would have most likely have been from Kabul and all areas through the Khyber Pass, a death trap. into Pakistan and down to Karachi docks, some 1,400 km one way.

 

The aircraft would probably have flown to Karachi airport before being dismantled and shipped back to the USA.

 

The cost would have been enormous and certainly more than the value of the equipment.

 

How many transporters would have been needed to be driven from Karachi to Kabul and return just to bring 1 or 2 tracked vehicles each trip.

 

Not to mention the complicated agreement that would be needed with Pakistan to transit the country.

On 4/6/2023 at 10:10 PM, sqwakvfr said:

I knew two men who did not come from Herat and Jalabad.  The blame game is not important but accountability is.  So far not a single senior military officer has been fired or forced into early retirement.  The fact that Gen Miley is still the chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff is in a word disgusting for all us who served in Afghanistan.  This includes myself. 

 

If Joe wants to blame anyone else he can go back as far 2006  because back then Bush was spending 4 Billion a month in Iraq and 1 Billion a month in Afghanistan. Afghanistan was never a top priority for the Department of Defense or the single most useless governmental agency in modern times: The State Department.  

 

 

"...the single most useless governmental agency in modern times: The State Department."

 

That is an incredibly ignorant thing to say.  Was the State Department under former Secretary of War George Marshall useless when it implemented the Marshall Plan, helping western Europe recover from World War II?

 

Was Defense Secretary James Mattis wrong when he said "If you don’t fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition ultimately,"?

 

Have you noticed that in the 21st Century the US Military has shown that it is very good at winning wars, but not at winning the peace?  Winning the peace is the hard part, in fact it's incredibly difficult and the US Military doesn't want the job.  We need a competent, well funded State Department for that.

 

Of course before committing to war it would help tremendously if the US in general and the US President in particular would insist on a credible plan for winning the war and the ensuing peace.

 

 

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Afghanistan fell faster than the military expected, largely due to the Taliban being reinforced by 5,000 seasoned fighters courtesy of Trump.

I always provide a link.

 

Biden failed, simple as that. Now he has to own it.

I think all of us should read the report before making assumptions.  It's never easy to retreat from a lost war.   Many people can be blamed including the people who began this war without a plan B for retreat. It didn't take a person with secret clearance to see how much damage trump did to many government organizations.  I did hear that it was suggested to Biden to leave 2500 troups behind.  But then the death toll could have been much higher.   Tough position but most Americans didn't support these wars.