Florida House passes 6-week abortion ban, expected to be signed by governor

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1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

What 'mistake' do you mean? Sex is a choice.  Getting pregnant is also a choice.   You are right that I personally think a 15 week limit is probably more realistic, but if this is what Florida decides, then so be it.  Similar if California decides on abortion up to the day of delivery. Up to them. Such is the miracle of federalism. 

And punishing people is also a choice. And unforgiveable when it's so clearly hypocritical.

 

These are the 10 states without expanded Medicaid:

Wyoming, Kansas, Texas, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida

All of them except Kansas, now have very harsh anti-abortion laws. And the only reason Kansas doesn't is because the citizens were allowed to vote on in a referendum to guarantee abortion rights.. (The Florida legislature has seen to it that referendums sponsored by citizens will be virtually impossible to get on the ballot. Not so for referendums authorized by the legislature)

So, no, it's not about protecting children. It's about punishing women for having sex the way they choose to have it.

 

Children Are Left Behind When States Fail to Expand Medicaid

Growing numbers of uninsured children are concentrating in states that have not expanded Medicaid.

While Medicaid expansion was designed to help 
uninsured adults who could not afford private 
insurance, the policy change also benefits children.

Extending access to Medicaid coverage for adults benefits the whole family by providing continuous access to care and improving reproductive health

https://ccf.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Kids-and-Medicaid-expansion_2-19.pdf

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

And punishing people is also a choice. And unforgiveable when it's so clearly hypocritical.

 

These are the 10 states without expanded Medicaid:

Wyoming, Kansas, Texas, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida

All of them except Kansas, now have very harsh anti-abortion laws. And the only reason Kansas doesn't is because the citizens were allowed to vote on in a referendum to guarantee abortion rights.. (The Florida legislature has seen to it that referendums sponsored by citizens will be virtually impossible to get on the ballot. Not so for referendums authorized by the legislature)

So, no, it's not about protecting children. It's about punishing women for having sex the way they choose to have it.

 

Children Are Left Behind When States Fail to Expand Medicaid

Growing numbers of uninsured children are concentrating in states that have not expanded Medicaid.

While Medicaid expansion was designed to help 
uninsured adults who could not afford private 
insurance, the policy change also benefits children.

Extending access to Medicaid coverage for adults benefits the whole family by providing continuous access to care and improving reproductive health

https://ccf.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Kids-and-Medicaid-expansion_2-19.pdf

You keep using the word "punish", but that is not what is happening. Nobody is being punished. However, they ARE being forced to be responsible for their actions.  No woman in Florida can be made to carry a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. She has 6 weeks to decide. The men in the equation are the ones with no power. They have no say in whether or not the abortion happens, and also no say after the baby is born.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You keep using the word "punish", but that is not what is happening. Nobody is being punished. However, they ARE being forced to be responsible for their actions.  No woman in Florida can be made to carry a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. She has 6 weeks to decide. The men in the equation are the ones with no power. They have no say in whether or not the abortion happens, and also no say after the baby is born.

The OP says MOST women don't know they're pregnant at 6 weeks. Men should have no say in whether an abortion happens. Your last sentence needs clarification. Fathers do have rights after a bay is born.

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2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You keep using the word "punish", but that is not what is happening. Nobody is being punished. However, they ARE being forced to be responsible for their actions.  No woman in Florida can be made to carry a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. She has 6 weeks to decide. The men in the equation are the ones with no power. They have no say in whether or not the abortion happens, and also no say after the baby is born.

If she even knows she's pregnant inside of 6 weeks. But after 6 weeks she has no right to have an abortion in Florida except in certain constricted circumstances.

And of course it's about punishment. If it was about concern for children, these legislators would long since have passed legislation to see to it that all children in Florida have access to decent medical care. Same goes for those other states, too.

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If she even knows she's pregnant inside of 6 weeks. But after 6 weeks she has no right to have an abortion in Florida except in certain constricted circumstances.

And of course it's about punishment. If it was about concern for children, these legislators would long since have passed legislation to see to it that all children in Florida have access to decent medical care. Same goes for those other states, too.

Perhaps this law will make people a bit more careful about their sexual activity then.  Have unprotected sex, use the morning after pill. Not sure? Take a pregnancy test at the first sign of a missed period.   

 

Pro abortion folks? Get moving and set up networks in Florida for women to have quick access to transportation if necessary, testing if necessary, etc.  Ball is in your court now. 

 

TBH, I think it is a bit of a tight window, but this is what the Florida legislature wants.  People can vote them out if they want in the next election. 

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4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Perhaps this law will make people a bit more careful about their sexual activity then.  Have unprotected sex, use the morning after pill. Not sure? Take a pregnancy test at the first sign of a missed period.   

You want to educate people. You do that by teaching. Not by punishment.

 

Don’t say “period”: How Florida Republicans are taking aim at basic sex education

"Florida schools are not required to teach sex education, but are required to teach comprehensive health education. There is no statewide curriculum for sex education, which makes instruction inconsistent across the state, according to an ABC report."

https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/3/24/23649277/dont-say-period-florida-republicans-restricting-sex-education#:~:text=Florida schools are not required,according to an ABC report.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You keep using the word "punish", but that is not what is happening. Nobody is being punished. However, they ARE being forced to be responsible for their actions.  No woman in Florida can be made to carry a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. She has 6 weeks to decide. The men in the equation are the ones with no power. They have no say in whether or not the abortion happens, and also no say after the baby is born.

Of course, it’s the men who are the victims.

 

Or was that more rightwing self asserted grievance stroking?

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

TBH, I think it is a bit of a tight window, but this is what the Florida legislature wants.  People can vote them out if they want in the next election. 

Did you not pay attention to the part about Florida being massively gerrymandered. And the state legislature making it virtually impossible for a citizen sponsored referendums to make it to the ballot box. This happened in the wake of a overwhelming vote by the citizenry to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour.

[RocketDog]

How did it get to the point that a woman cannot choose to have a 1cm lump of cells (look it up) removed from her body?

 

If it was a common lipoma under her skin a clinic would remove it, do a few stitches, and she would leave relieved.

 

Too many folks spending too much time worrying about somebody else's womb. Find a another hobby , or at least keep your nose out of someone else's private parts.

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

The men in the equation are the ones with no power. They have no say in whether or not the abortion happens, and also no say after the baby is born.

Naturally you would like to change that too I assume?

 

"It takes a village" after all to agree on such private matters. Should the outcome be decided by simple majority or should it legally be unanimous in a county forum.?

Power to the people!

[placeholder]

Not only that. Just to make that more women in Florida get pregnant, the legislature is going after Planned Parenthood. by depriving them of state funding. Their excuse is that Planned Parenthood supports abortion services. However, the money from Florida goes to contraceptive and other health services. Not to abortion.

Defund Planned Parenthood? Florida is going to try.
A federal judge previously blocked part of a 2016 abortion law.

Citing the Supreme Court case that reversed Roe v. Wade, Florida’s attorney general on Wednesday filed a motion to reinstate part of a 2016 law that would have blocked state funds from going to Planned Parenthood and other organizations that perform abortions.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/22/abortion-moody-desantis-planned-parenthood-clinic-funding/

 

[TKDfella]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You are right, and many pro life people would agree. However, political reality intrudes. Much like the gun issue, where a lot of anti gun people would rather there be zero guns in America. Most people see a compromise position somewhere in the middle. 

 

This bill allows abortions up to 15 weeks for rape and incest, and also for risk of life/substantial health risk of the mother. So it is not actually a ban.  More an imposition of responsibility on people who choose to be sexually active. 

I am pro-life (and not religious) but with conditionals you mention. How often does one see a comment about Thai people not taking responsibility for their actions? Yet when it comes one's own country, the principle seems to get lost. If a person doesn't want children then they shouldn't play 'Russian roulette' with their body.

[Sweet Swede]

I Welcome back USA to ancient times that place females as second rate citizens. Will the next be that they cannot vote as they are just a rib of Adam and should know their real place which is cooking food for their mate and giving birth to new superior males. Trump republicans' and ISIS are now so alike that they should assimilate. Pro Life movement is in reality Pro dead. Although they are a clear minority they might just like Hitler did, succeed. Fascism is something we should fear and USA Christian Nationalism is without doubt the a recent version of that. It is a pervert and disgusting religious belief that belong in the dark ages. 

[Tug]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

If the men are actual deadbeats and not paying court ordered support, then they need to be tracked down and have their wages garnished. Responsibility for actions.  No need for kids to suffer if one of their parents is a bum.

Let’s consider the opposite no need for women to suffer poverty and a dead end life because of an unplanned pregnancy humm?how about letting the lady make that choice humm?how about tracking down the ugly people who try to force their will on others separate church and state vote the bums out!

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, Tug said:

Let’s consider the opposite no need for women to suffer poverty and a dead end life because of an unplanned pregnancy humm?how about letting the lady make that choice humm?how about tracking down the ugly people who try to force their will on others separate church and state vote the bums out!

There is no reason for women to suffer that fate. They can choose not to have unsafe sex, can choose to abort their pregnancy within 6 weeks, can choose to put their baby up for adoption.  Nobody is forcing poverty on anyone. 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Not only that. Just to make that more women in Florida get pregnant, the legislature is going after Planned Parenthood. by depriving them of state funding. Their excuse is that Planned Parenthood supports abortion services. However, the money from Florida goes to contraceptive and other health services. Not to abortion.

Defund Planned Parenthood? Florida is going to try.
A federal judge previously blocked part of a 2016 abortion law.

Citing the Supreme Court case that reversed Roe v. Wade, Florida’s attorney general on Wednesday filed a motion to reinstate part of a 2016 law that would have blocked state funds from going to Planned Parenthood and other organizations that perform abortions.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/22/abortion-moody-desantis-planned-parenthood-clinic-funding/

 

Good. Why should the government fund them?  The money they get from govt grants just goes into a big pot, there is no way to distinguish which dollars go to which procedure or usage.  Howzabout dedicated pro abortion people pony up the cash to make up for the shortfall? Should be easy if so many people support their mission. 

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, Tug said:

Let’s consider the opposite no need for women to suffer poverty and a dead end life because of an unplanned pregnancy humm?how about letting the lady make that choice humm?how about tracking down the ugly people who try to force their will on others separate church and state vote the bums out!

Absolutely, it not only affects the women but also the children:

 

Women who are denied abortions risk falling deeper into poverty. So do their kids

"I defaulted on student loans that I was navigating," she says. She'd been studying to be a paralegal but had left without a degree. Within about a year, she also defaulted on credit card payments, which eventually led to her meager checks being garnished. At one point, she juggled three jobs — one of them full time — trying to make it all work. "It was certainly rough."

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/26/1100587366/banning-abortion-roe-economic-consequences

 

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10 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Good. Why should the government fund them?  The money they get from govt grants just goes into a big pot, there is no way to distinguish which dollars go to which procedure or usage.  Howzabout dedicated pro abortion people pony up the cash to make up for the shortfall? Should be easy if so many people support their mission. 

What do you mean there's no way to keep them separate. Apparently you have no experience with even basic bookkeeping. Such nonsense.

[JonnyF]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

Typical punitive attitude of the right when it comes to sex.

And what this means for poor women in the region is particularly awful. They're going to have to travel farther and more expensively if they want to get an abortion. Already the costs are prohibitively high for many.

 

Condoms are cheap. And personal responsibility is free. Maybe schools could teach that instead of critical race theory?

 

Just a thought...

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Condoms are cheap. And personal responsibility is free. Maybe schools could teach that instead of critical race theory?

 

Just a thought...

Can you please share with us the evidence that Florida schools are or were teaching critical race theory? Maybe for a change you could stop making things up.  Anyway,  since the Florida schools didn't and don't teach critical race theory, there's no "instead" about it. And it's clearly a lot more to the point to teach the facts about sex and  contraception than it is to teach some general idea of personal responsibility. How would that even work? Teach via fables?

 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Can you please share with us the evidence that Florida schools are or were teaching critical race theory? Maybe for a change you could stop making things up.  Anyway,  since the Florida schools didn't and don't teach critical race theory, there's no "instead" about it. And it's clearly a lot more to the point to teach the facts about sex and  contraception than it is to teach some general idea of personal responsibility. How would that even work? Teach fables?

 

Teach them how condoms work. Teach them that actions have consequences and you can't always rely on others to bail out your poor decisions.

 

That way you don't need dangerous, expensive medical procedures to remove unwanted unborn children from the womb.

 

Sounds like common sense to me. Prevention has to be better than "cure".

 

 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Teach them how condoms work. Teach them that actions have consequences and you can't always rely on others to bail out your poor decisions.

 

That way you don't need dangerous, expensive medical procedures to remove unwanted unborn children from the womb.

 

Sounds like common sense to me. Prevention has to be better than "cure".

Most abortions are not "expensive medical procedures". They are drug induced miscarriages. The result of this law will be a return to coathangers.

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Most abortions are not "expensive medical procedures". They are drug induced miscarriages. The result of this law will be a return to coathangers.

That depends on the stage of pregnancy.

 

Besides, you might want to check the original post I quoted and take up the whole "this further persecutes the poor" narrative with them.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

That depends on the stage of pregnancy.

 

Besides, you might want to check the original post I quoted and take up the whole "this further persecutes the poor" narrative with them.

I'm not interested in  your original post, only your deflection that abortions are "expensive medical procedures" which is not true in the main. Surgical abortions are mainly carried out when there are complications.

[2009]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You keep using the word "punish", but that is not what is happening. Nobody is being punished. However, they ARE being forced to be responsible for their actions.  No woman in Florida can be made to carry a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. She has 6 weeks to decide. The men in the equation are the ones with no power. They have no say in whether or not the abortion happens, and also no say after the baby is born.

Exactly!

 

They say father's shouldn't have any say whatsoever, yet they seem to expect men to support abortion. Lol

 

Why would we care, if it's none of our business?

Her body, her choice, her business. 

 

 I ain't voting for it.

 

Give fathers a say, and I'll think about it.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Teach them how condoms work. Teach them that actions have consequences and you can't always rely on others to bail out your poor decisions.

 

That way you don't need dangerous, expensive medical procedures to remove unwanted unborn children from the womb.

 

Sounds like common sense to me. Prevention has to be better than "cure".

 

 

Abortions are far less dangerous than pregnancies are to a pregnant woman. Abortions are only expensive if someone has to travel out of state and stay in hotels and pay for transportation to have one. And abortion by medication is very inexpensive. Once again, you're making things up. Stop making things up.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Teach them how condoms work. Teach them that actions have consequences and you can't always rely on others to bail out your poor decisions.

 

That way you don't need dangerous, expensive medical procedures to remove unwanted unborn children from the womb.

 

Sounds like common sense to me. Prevention has to be better than "cure".

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/average-childbirth-cost/

 

Even if one don't have insurance, abortions cost far less:

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/dashboard/abortion-in-the-u-s-dashboard/

 

As for "dangerous"

The comparative safety of legal induced abortion and childbirth in the United States

The pregnancy-associated mortality rate among women who delivered live neonates was 8.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions. In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/

 

[Stargeezr]

The USA is leaping back at least 50 years. I hope that all women and some men vote for the anti abortions laws

to be banned. Just my opinion of course. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

Exactly!

 

They say father's shouldn't have any say whatsoever, yet they seem to expect men to support abortion. Lol

 

Why would we care, if it's none of our business?

Her body, her choice, her business. 

 

 I ain't voting for it.

 

Give fathers a say, and I'll think about it.

So, you think the male should have veto power over the woman? She's the one on whom the burden falls most heavily. So it's only fair that she gets final say.  Anyway, the issue here isn't about men having the power to stop women, but rather the government.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Stargeezr said:

The USA is leaping back at least 50 years. I hope that all women and some men vote for the anti abortions laws

to be banned. Just my opinion of course. 

Well, Kansas and Michican did just that by referendum. One reason why states with right wing government and anti-abortionists are trying to make lawmaking by referendum a lot more difficult.