Draft Charter Ready For Vote

[Hampstead]

Interesting to note that srt have apparently been halting trains to the north on monday, and srt denying this, i wonder if anyone has the real facts or are we now so much in the hands of these propaganda responses by all state organisations protecting the vile tactics of the military, trying to keep their Yes vote in tact.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=120843

is this the start of some major disruptions in all the transport networks to the north and north east over the next 6 days?

it certainly smells like it

Edited August 13, 2007 by Hampstead

[blaze]

...As I said before, It does come down to someone putting things in a format that the under educated can understand. If that is done it will take much of the wind out of the sails of the people that are encouraging others.

I wonder how many of the 'educated' understand the historic role of the beaurocracy in this country- the beaurocracy that the new constitution promises to further insulate from the elected government.

The poor who have over the years been the major victims of the beaurocrats, probably have a much better understanding of this than many of their more 'educated' neighbors.

Edited August 13, 2007 by blaze

[Mid]

The Thais want to see an end to all of this and get on with their lives. I read that in their faces when I go out.

paganshopping.com

[Mid]

Charter's military-related articles still raise questions

Published on August 13, 2007

This is the second in a series on the new charter, in a countdown to the August 19 referendum

The difference between two controversial but crucial articles pertaining to the military in the junta-sponsored draft constitution is that one became headline news and the other has barely been mentioned.

The one that's been attracting attention is Article 309, which grants de facto amnesty for the junta's past and, arguably, even future actions. The article that got little notice in the news media is Article 77, which states that it is the state's duty to "adequately" provide "modern" arms and armed forces.

snip

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

[sriracha john]

The train situation clarified and de-mystified....

Northern Trains Temporarily Stop Operation after Collapse of Rail Track in Pijit

Northern trains have temporarily ceased operation for repairs on Monday morning after the soil under the railway tracks at Pijit province collapsed. Later in the afternoon, the service resumed.

The train station at Ban Huadong in Muang district of Pijit province has temporarily stopped its operation after farmers released water from a water gate, causing a softening of the soil beneath the rail tracks.

The State Railway of Thailand has announced that northern trains will cease operation until the problem is fixed. After several hours of repair, authorities were able to raise the collapsed rail tracks, resulting in services being resumed. However, trains passing through that area have been asked to use low speed so this has delayed all northern-bound trains by at least half an hour to an hour.

Officials will continue to monitor the tracks closely, fearing that more heavy rains may cause them to collapse again. Currently, wood has been laid under the tracks to prevent them from sinking but heavy machinery will be brought in to make more permanent repairs. Train services may be halted from 11am to 1pm on Tuesday for these repairs. Train commuters on northern-bound lines are asked to check with the State Railway of Thailand for the schedule of trains again in the next couple of days.

Monday morning's halt of train services has caused many people to have been stranded and not able to return to work after the Mother's Day long weekend.

This is reportedly the fourth time the rail tracks at Ban Huadong station has collapsed. The train station has asked the State Railway of Thailand for 5 million baht to repair the tracks but the proposal has not yet been approved by the state.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited August 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Anti-charter campaign smacks of sour grapes

So the die-hard supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra want the referendum on the draft constitution this Sunday to be reduced to a choice between the former prime minister and a political future without him.

It is probably the only remaining card that they hope will help sway opinion among people who they believe are still loyal to Thaksin.

They are obviously banking on the 14 million votes that swept Thaksin back to power in the election in 2005. Convinced that their former political boss is still widely popular among the rural folk, the Thai Rak Thai remnants apparently hope their latest message can help prompt these people to reject the draft charter.

But their "vote no" campaign is at best a self-serving political endeavour. While a defeat of the draft constitution will be nothing less than a slap in the face for the Council for National Security, it will not in any way change the political landscape. With or without the newly-drafted constitution, Thaksin will not be able to set foot in this country again in the foreseeable future - let alone make a political comeback.

It's probably a coincidence that the ex-Thai Rak Thai members' campaign came on the heels of charges that there were attempts to bribe at least two judges on the Constitution Tribunal to sway its ruling in the electoral fraud case against the former ruling party. It doesn't require the most intelligent of political pundits to see the connection between the two events.

While the police have yet to conduct a full investigation into the bribery charges, it's already public knowledge that someone was trying to rig the court's ruling. The investigation centres on a police colonel and a senior member of the judiciary known for their close ties to the former administration.

Though few people expect the investigation to eventually unmask the mastermind behind the bribery attempt, it's already known who would have benefited the most if the court's ruling had gone the other way over the much-publicised fraud allegations in the snap April 2 general election. Two favourable votes would have saved the entire Thai Rak Thai leadership from being politically disqualified for five years.

In hindsight, the unfolding bribery investigation helps explain the "political sixth sense" that drove then acting Thai Rak Thai leader Chaturon Chaisaeng to confidently declare that he and his colleagues were prepared to accept whatever decision was made by the Constitution Tribunal. But his display of political confidence was short-lived. As soon as the tribunal decided to dissolve the party and impose a political ban on the entire Thai Rak Thai leadership, Chaturon declared the ruling a product of military dictatorship.

Of course, had the tribunal decided to reverse the political ban on the 111 Thai Rak Thai executives (read: if the bribery succeeded), these same executives would be busy preparing for the promised election - although under a new political banner - instead of working to derail the draft constitution. Before the ruling, they were confident that a Thai Rak Thai leadership that remained intact would stand a good chance of regaining power through an election - and subsequently be in position to restore their disgraced leader.

The decision of the tribunal had the effect of splintering the once mighty ruling party. Those still loyal to Thaksin, who are now regrouping under the banner of the People's Power Party, know that they are too weak to make an impact in the election, while others who have defected are unlikely to rally around Thaksin again.

So for these TRT remnants, it's not the constitution that is the real issue. It's the prospect that they will be rejected in the election that has prompted them to oppose the draft. Their campaign is essentially a symbolic act of defiance against the junta and an exercise aimed at political survival rather than a sincere political undertaking to promote democracy.

There is a lot of hypocrisy involved in the ongoing campaign against the draft constitution by the Thai Rak Thai die-hards. Those who are crying foul over what they claim to be an undemocratic constitution are the same people who had no qualms about serving an administration that was bent on destroying the constitutional spirit. They kept silent as they watched Thaksin undermine practically all the mechanisms of checks and balances that formed the basis of the 1997 Constitution.

It is therefore exceedingly presumptuous for these Thaksin supporters to present Thai people with the choice between constitution and their former political master, who they want to portray as a democratic symbol. Their own political records clearly betray their trumpeting about democracy.

While the new constitution may not offer an answer to all the political problems, it is much less sinister than they are trying to portray it to be. But if the referendum is to be a contest between a new political dawn and a return of Thaksin then the choice would be clear-cut.

A vote for the charter may not immediately put the country back on track to democracy but would at least set the stage for a less polarised and less despotic political environment. But a vote against - "for Thaksin" - would mean a vote for a return to a system in which electoral fraud and bribing of judges are part of the norm.

- Thepchai Yong, Hard talk, The Nation

[John K]

Yes colypat you are correct the chaos will continue as long as the TRT are not in jail. It is 100% obvious that they can’t follow the courts ruling voluntarily and will need some help from the corrections department. The general elections will be next so you can certainly expect them to sow their trouble with that event. I can’t wait to hear their twist on things when their fearless leader becomes a fugitive.

[ColPyat]

Yes colypat you are correct the chaos will continue as long as the TRT are not in jail. It is 100% obvious that they can’t follow the courts ruling voluntarily and will need some help from the corrections department. The general elections will be next so you can certainly expect them to sow their trouble with that event. I can’t wait to hear their twist on things when their fearless leader becomes a fugitive.

Are you just playing obtuse or do you have difficulties with reading?

Giles Ungpakorn, whose statement i have posted, has been all along outspoken against TRT, long before his present most vocal opponents have split from TRT.

Sombat Boonngamanong, one of the leaders of the "No" vote campaign has never been, and still is not a TRT supporter. The many academics who have been critical of the new constitution have also not been TRT supporters.

It is time for you to realize that Thaksin is not hiding behind every corner, that the present political crises is NOT just TRT against the military, and that many critics of the coups and the military have been critics of Thaksin as well.

[LaoPo]

Draft Charter Ready For Vote,

...Thailand's lawmakers approve draft post-coup charter

That's the title of this topic.

Usually I don't comment very much in this topic but I'm flabbergasted, shocked and stunned about the comments of some intelligent (I assume) TV-members...

I question myself over and over again why on earth they're trying to convince themselves and others regarding this -draft- constitution and, more important, the justification of the same.

IMHO it's a draft constitution, approved by the 'lawmakers'...

Gentlemen -and Ladies of course-, please tell me: WHO are those lawmakers ?

Are they democratically elected, chosen, or appointed ?

By WHOM ?

You tell me if this draft constitution and the dangerous, almost hidden, special clauses, are justified or not ?

The constant bashing about the past government and it's leader, for almost a year now, makes me sick and tired.

For me: that's a thing of the past and if 'they' -TRT- and/or Mr. T. did something (or many things) wrong, fine, let it be -and it should be- in the hands and judged by -DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED- Judges and Courts, not appointed by a small group of army people, their old elite bosses & puppets...trying to re-gain control of their power, money, greed and protection -again-.

Let me tell you something: they're succeeding and a lot of [Thai] people are 'buying it'...including some TV-members!

I'm amazed that so many intelligent people, also here on TV, believe almost everything they read in the -steered- news/television/papers/magazines, fed by the 'Public Relations Agencies' of the CNS/Government,...................paid with tax money of the Thai people...

Unbelievable !

LaoPo

[jumnien]

I personally see this document allowing more cash to flow to the people as the ‘wanna be corrupt politicians’ are kept on a short leash.

Kept on a short leach by equally corrupt Generals and Bureaucrats, known to be riddled by departmental rivalries under the civil service and class rivalries and factionalism in the armed forces, who can't even be elected out of office if they are overstepping lines.

As to policy corruption, while most social programs have been scrapped or lost huge budgets, military budget since the coup has been rising enormously.

As to rigged or dirty elections, the referendum so far has been dirtier than anything that TRT has done. State intimidation of activists advocating a "No" vote, millions of tax payers money spent on accepting the new constitution, arrests of activists, intimidation, unfounded accusations of vote buying (ironic, while the junta is spending vast sums on pressuring a "yes" vote), media influencing worse than Thaksin has ever done, etc.

Here two pieced critical of the referendum, on by Giles Ungpakorn, and the next by the only Nation writer that sometimes can get a critical piece through:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The 19th August Constitutional Referendum Process is Undemocratic

It is now obvious that the military junta have no intention of conducting a clean and democratic referendum on their new constitution. While the government is shamelessly spending millions of the public's baht on propaganda urging the population to vote "yes" and accept the constitution, those who are opposed to it are prevented from campaigning properly by arrests, threats and a total lack of access in the media. The referendum cannot therefore be regarded as democratic, according to any international or Thai standards. Regardless of the outcome of this dirty referendum, the Peoples Movement must continue to campaign for real political reform, social justice and the building of a welfare state from progressive taxation.

It is necessary to remind ourselves that those in the Peoples Alliance for Democracy (P.A.D.) and those intellectuals and academics who welcomed the coup as the "only way to get rid of Thaksin's authoritarianism", used the excuse of a "dirty election" on the 2nd April 2007 to justify the coup and to justify collaborating with the junta. The present referendum is infinitely more dirty and undemocratic compared to the 2 nd of April election, which was a kind of referendum on the Thaksin government. At that time we and many others were able to campaign openly for a "no" vote against Thaksin without any threats or hindrance. The press carried the views of those who opposed the government. Yet we hear no protests from the ex-members of the P.A.D. or from the pro-coup intellectuals about the way the junta's referendum is being conducted.

We would really prefer to boycott this undemocratic referendum. Yet, the current to boycott among the millions who oppose the junta's constitution is very small. Therefore we shall stand with the majority and urge people to vote "No". Never the less, if the referendum results in a "yes" majority, the outcome can have little legitimacy.

There are many reasons for voting against the junta's constitution apart from the fact that the whole drafting process was undemocratic, resulting from a coup and lacking any public participation. Despite the lies by junta supporters, the constitution decreases the democratic space while increasing the power of the unelected military, judiciary and bureaucracy. There has been no significant progress over the 1997 constitution on issues related to gender rights, community and ethnic rights, trade union rights and the issue of a free media. The constitution is even more neo-liberal and pro-market, increasing the role of big business, privatisation and forcing governments to cut public welfare spending, while increasing the military budget. Where it mentions welfare or health, the clauses are more backward than the existing system. Finally, there is no road to peace and justice for the South built into the constitution. None of this is surprising. The junta's drafters and their supporters are in no way interested in true political reform, democracy and social justice. There sole aim is to block the re-election of Thai Rak Thai and to decrease the democratic space because they do not think that the poor should have the right to vote. This is why they have ignored all the important proposals for political reform which many of us in the Peoples Movement have been discussing from long before the time of the coup.

The struggle for democracy, social justice and peace must continue. A "No" vote is only an important part of this struggle against dictatorial powers and injustice in Thailand.

Giles Ji Ungpakorn

On behalf of the Peoples Coalition Party

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/08/13...cs_30044769.php

Charter's military-related articles still raise questions

This is the second in a series on the new charter, in a countdown to the August 19 referendum

Published on August 13, 2007

The difference between two controversial but crucial articles pertaining to the military in the junta-sponsored draft constitution is that one became headline news and the other has barely been mentioned.

The one that's been attracting attention is Article 309, which grants de facto amnesty for the junta's past and, arguably, even future actions. The article that got little notice in the news media is Article 77, which states that it is the state's duty to "adequately" provide "modern" arms and armed forces.

The words "modern" and "adequate" didn't appear in the 1997 constitution, and critics like Assoc Prof Prasit Pipawattapanich, from Thammasat University's Law Faculty, pointed out that it is quite the opposite of what Article 83 says. Article 83 states that the state must follow the "sufficiency" policy when it comes to arms purchase, but it is "adequacy", or phieng phor in the Thai, and not "sufficiency" or phor phieng that is preferred.

There was virtually no debate on the issue when the junta-appointed Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) penned it, before the junta-appointed Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) speedily approved it, also without any debate or objection.

When The Nation recently asked Kiatichai Pongpanich, a member of the CDA, if this approval would lead to a further increase in the arms budget, he merely said that there was nothing "irregular" about it.

Yet material published by the anti-coup and anti-junta-sponsored-draft-charter group noted that the annual increase in percentage figures of armed forces expenditure over the past decade was never above 10 per cent. But the figure has risen by 66.4 per cent since last September. "This is the cost of the coup," the September 19 Network Against Coup stated categorically in one of its booklets.

On the much-publicised controversy over the issue of amnesty to the junta granted in Article 309, which is the last article under the draft charter, another Thammasat University law lecturer Vorachaet Phakeerat said that having such an article simply undermined the whole "principle" of the constitution being supreme law.

Vorachaet reasoned that the charter itself cannot allow an "unconstitutional act" to be regarded as "constitutional" while still wanting to have the charter considered sacred by others.

Prasit, meanwhile, pointed out that the de facto amnesty was not retroactive, but perversely covered future actions of the junta which may otherwise be "unconstitutional" even after the draft charter comes into effect - provided it is endorsed in the referendum.

Many opponents pointed out that such an article sets a wrong precedent and could encourage more coups in the future.

Just last week, junta leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin continued toying with the idea of entering electoral politics and said there was nothing to be afraid of since he had been involved in something a lot more risky - staging a coup to oust Thaksin Shinawatra.

Prasit went on to speculate that this may also have something to do with the unfinished probe against Thaksin's alleged ill-gotten wealth that may not be completed in time for the elections. Those examining Thaksin's assets have been hand picked by the Council for National Security (CNS) itself.

Supporters of the draft charter say the junta may have already granted itself amnesty in the 2006 interim charter written by the coup-makers themselves.

As witnessed by the recent one-time televised debate, both Articles 309 and 77 are not something proponents and writers of the junta-sponsored draft charter are proud of.

Meanwhile, their opponents are quick to claim that some appalling form of conflict of interest is at work here and that there are no checks and balances whatsoever when it comes to the increasing role of the junta in particular and the military in general.

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Great post! The junta cheerleaders won't be happy, but why should they?

[hammered]

Ive been asking a few Thai people if they think the Charter will pass or fail yet to find one who thinks it wont. Not sure why they all seem so certain but they do. I never thought it was a certainty myself but then again I aint a Thai voter. I havent asked the follow up of why but those that volunteer it say people want to move on.

[Jai Dee]

Surin campaigns for people to vote in referendum

More than 1,000 Development for Democracy Volunteers are campaigning for people in Surin (สุรินทร์) province to take part in the 2007 constitution referendum on August 19th.

The province of Surin is organizing a campaign to support democracy and encourage people to vote in the referendum. The event is joined by Surin Governor Poonsak Pranutnorapan (พูลศักดิ์ ประณุทนรพาล) together with village headmen and members of the public. They are knocking on people’s doors and calling them to vote in the referendum. The theme of this campaign is Surin People Is Ready to Vote in the Referendum.

During the opening of this campaign, the Governor of Surin has vowed to be loyal to Their Majesties the King and Queen, work for the country, will not engage in vote-buying activities and will encourage people to exercise their rights to vote. The Governor has instructed his provincial district-chiefs together with the Development for Democracy Volunteers to help urge public members to participate in Thailand’s first ever referendum.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

Labor Ministry urges its officials and employees to vote in referendum

The Ministry of Labor leads a group of officials to campaign for government employees and civil servants to take part in the 2007 constitution referendum on August 19th.

The Labor Ministry Spokesman and Deputy Permanent Secretary for Labor, Mr. Pairote Sooksamrit (ไพโรจน์ สุขสัมฤทธิ์), presided over the opening of this campaign under the theme Laborers Love Democracy and Will Vote in Referendum. The event includes a musical parade proceeding in and around the Labor Ministry, and its purpose is to encourage more than nine million Thai laborers nationwide as well as civil servants to vote in the referendum.

Mr. Pairote says the Ministry of Labor has continually campaigned for people to vote in the referendum by organizing concerts and various events. He is confident that all Labor officials and personnel will participate in this national event even though a few Thai laborers who are working abroad may not have the opportunity to exercise their voting rights.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

State Railway of Thailand reduces fares by 50% for voters traveling to public referendum

The State Railway of Thailand will be providing convenience to commuters on August 19th's public referendum by implementing a fare reduction for rail services from August 17-20.

The Public Relations Division of the State Railway of Thailand reports that rail services from August 17-20 will be subjected to a 50 percent fare reduction on all routes in order to encourage passengers to travel to their home provinces in order to vote in the August 19th public referendum. Voters traveling by rail are asked to please display their identification cards in order to receive discounts.

The State Railway of Thailand is also reducing freight cargo rates for fruits transported from the three southern border provinces from 4.11 baht per kilogram to 2 baht per kilogram in order to assist southern agriculturists who are currently experiencing an excess surplus of fruits in the southern market.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

Sakon Nakhon Provincial Police ready to deal with voting obstruction

The Sakon Nakhon Provincial Police is ready to handle ill-intentioned people who are attempting to obstruct others from voting in the 2007 constitution referendum on August 19th.

Maj. Gen. Udom Jampajan (อุดม จำปาจันทร์), the Superintendent of the Sakon Nakhon Provincial Police, says it is now the final stage of the campaign for people to vote in the national referendum. He says the provincial police officers in all precincts are urgently educating people about the 2007 charter draft and the referendum while keeping a close eye on the old political clique’s movement.

Maj. Gen. Udom says police will be dispatched in all areas on August 19th to prevent potential mishaps from happening. He says if people have been obstructed to take part in the referendum, the wrongdoers will be punished immediately.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

Government may abolish martial law in some areas

The Prime Minister says that the government may consider abolishing martial law in certain provinces.

Gen. Surayud Chulanont (สุรยุทธ์ จุลานนท์) conducted a walk rally to campaign for participation in the public referendum yesterday. Gen. Surayud revealed that the Council for National Security is calling on former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to participate in the public referendum if he loves his country, and to oppose the public referendum if he does not. The Council for National Security has affirmed that the public referendum is not linked to politics.

The Prime Minister said that officials may consider abolishing martial law in certain provinces even though martial law will have no effect on the public referendum process. Gen. Surayud said that matters of national security would be taken into account before martial law is revoked.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007

[Mid]

Martial law not lifted for referendum: Army chief

Tuesday 14 August 2007 11:33:25 AM (GMT+7:00)

BANGKOK, Aug 13 (TNA) - The martial law in effect in Thailand since last year's coup d'etat which toppled the government of prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra last September 19 will not be lifted before this weekend's referendum for the draft constitution, Council for National Security chairman Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratkalin said Monday.

snip

MCOT Public Company Limited.

the government will do what it's told .............................

[John K]

LaoPo; a good point. I don’t know how far you are going back but I only started on this thread when I heard about the vote buying. Up to that point I felt this was Thai business and I was very content just to let the Thais deal with it in a democratic way. Vote buying is not democratic on my opinion.

Colpyat: a very good post and certainly much more in depth than I have time for normally. It does provide another viewpoint. However in a general sense I feel my comment is correct. If there is less skimming then certainly more money will get down to the poor for whatever their basic needs are. That is just simple math and that is all I am saying. The people who want the charter to fail are doing so for personal gain. The charter has a very nasty set of teeth that would certainly bite anyone who had their hands in the till. The in depth post is great however for the most part it reflects the wants of only a small percentage of people. I think the new charter os not the finial answer but certainly it is a step in the right direction. I am just annoyed the Thaksin and his gang are very deliberately mucking things up for self serving reason. If that was not going on I doubt you would see any of my posts in this thread.

Sunrise07; At least for me I am trying to look at actions and ignoring what ever name they have. So far in the last 10 plus months this is what I have seen:

I have seen quick decisive action taken to deal with people who clearly don’t have the best interest of the country in mind. Compared to the US congress, it make the US congress look like they are running on Thai time. I know Sonthi is behind much of the decisions but non the less they are the correct decisions to move the country out of the self serving political mess Thaksin put it in.

I have seen the Thai courts go from being a joke to being something I now feel is highly respectable on a global scale. The ruling make sense and don’t leave me doing one of these -> . However I am not sure if that applies to all courts or just the major courts.

I have seen that Thaksin’s business sense is difficult to match and the policy and decision makers are making far less than stellar decisions. That has resulted in the countries economy taking a hit. False and misleading comments about the level of tourism that no way matches the reality of hotel bookings.

I agree with Prem in that Sunday will clear the political air and allow the government to move on until the general elections.

[Jai Dee]

EC says it is not illegal for Interior Ministry to campaign for people to vote in referendum

The Election Commission (EC) of Thailand indicates that the Ministry of Interior’s letters to 17 central provinces with a message to encourage people to vote in the 2007 constitution referendum is not against the law.

Recently, Thai Rak Thai core member Chaturon Chaisang (จาตุรนต์ ฉายแสง) has accused the EC for being biased by trying to take actions against people who are against the new constitution draft while the interim government is campaigning for people to accept the charter draft. In response, EC member Sumet Uppanisakorn (สุเมธ อุปนิสากร) says the government is not at fault as its intention is only to encourage public members to vote in the referendum.

In the meantime, the EC organized a training course for 200 university students who will make phone calls to different households, with an aim to encourage Thai residents to take part in the referendum on August 19th.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

All eyes are now on August 19

The government is striving to encourage a large turnout for the August 19 referendum regardless of how voters pass judgement on the charter, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said yesterday.

"The people can make their own decision and the government won't mind the outcome, be it an acceptance or rejection," he said.

He played down speculation about an influx of funds from abroad to be used to defeat the charter, claiming that people were more intent on getting politics back on course. "Only those familiar with buying their way into power would think about using money to rig the referendum's outcome," he said.

He voiced optimism that more than 70 per cent of voters would cast ballots, as predicted by opinion polls.

Meanwhile an aide said chief royal adviser General Prem Tinsulanonda was closely monitoring the run up to the vote out of concern about ill-intentioned elements trying to derail the referendum. "Prem remains on top of the situation," Vice Admiral Pajun Tampratheep said.

PM's Office Minister Thirapat Serirangsan said the government was willing to arrange a new round of debate on the charter this Friday if opponents and proponents wanted another televised venue to air their views. The previous debate took place on August 3.

Thirapat urged voters to make an effort in turning out for the ballot, voicing concern that many might stay home because they were certain of a successful referendum.

In order to dispel doubts about the outcome, more than 23 million votes, representing about half the eligible voters, should be cast, he said.

Interior Minister Aree Wongsearaya said he expected a turnout of more than 60 per cent. He said he had heard about the spread of funds to sway votes in Chiang Rai, although he did not expect voters to fall prey to such a scam. The money reportedly came from a casino in Burma, seen to be linked to an ousted politician.

Junta chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin, meanwhile, asked government agencies to probe the allegation about the casino funds.

However, despite attempts by anti-coup groups to reject the draft, he was confident the charter draft would be approved in the referendum.

Former Thai Rak Thai MP Itthidet Kaewluang from Chiang Rai said the allegation about buying referendum votes was a smear designed to discredit the ousted government. "Ousted politicians are no longer in a position to exploit state mechanisms to spread money around and sway votes; I see that only soldiers are capable of doing such a thing," he said.

Source: The Nation - 14 August 2007

[blaze]

The new charter is probably a fait accompli. Within hours of the coup taking place, a senior military official quipped that this would take Thailand to where it was in 1932. And it will. The patronage system that had dominated Thai society for the previous hundred years wherein beaurocrats protected by the military bestowed favors on the rising bourgeoisie will be again the norm. The beaurocrats and military will again be in a position to make sure their precious nation is not sullied by the machinations of the ignorant masses. The notorious corruption of Thai beaurocrats will reach new highs and the army will plunder the state coffers at will.

The charter is, according to every commentary I have read on it, designed to ensure that no one party becomes strong enough to upset the apple cart- for to do so they would have to be strong enough to rewrite or at least seriously ammend the constitution. And that in itself could constitute the threat to national security that the army is prepared, under the constitution, to deal with. A great leap backwards.

[ColPyat]

LaoPo; a good point. I don’t know how far you are going back but I only started on this thread when I heard about the vote buying. Up to that point I felt this was Thai business and I was very content just to let the Thais deal with it in a democratic way. Vote buying is not democratic on my opinion.

Colpyat: a very good post and certainly much more in depth than I have time for normally. It does provide another viewpoint. However in a general sense I feel my comment is correct. If there is less skimming then certainly more money will get down to the poor for whatever their basic needs are. That is just simple math and that is all I am saying. The people who want the charter to fail are doing so for personal gain. The charter has a very nasty set of teeth that would certainly bite anyone who had their hands in the till. The in depth post is great however for the most part it reflects the wants of only a small percentage of people. I think the new charter os not the finial answer but certainly it is a step in the right direction. I am just annoyed the Thaksin and his gang are very deliberately mucking things up for self serving reason. If that was not going on I doubt you would see any of my posts in this thread.

Sunrise07; At least for me I am trying to look at actions and ignoring what ever name they have. So far in the last 10 plus months this is what I have seen:

I have seen quick decisive action taken to deal with people who clearly don’t have the best interest of the country in mind. Compared to the US congress, it make the US congress look like they are running on Thai time. I know Sonthi is behind much of the decisions but non the less they are the correct decisions to move the country out of the self serving political mess Thaksin put it in.

I have seen the Thai courts go from being a joke to being something I now feel is highly respectable on a global scale. The ruling make sense and don’t leave me doing one of these -> . However I am not sure if that applies to all courts or just the major courts.

I have seen that Thaksin’s business sense is difficult to match and the policy and decision makers are making far less than stellar decisions. That has resulted in the countries economy taking a hit. False and misleading comments about the level of tourism that no way matches the reality of hotel bookings.

I agree with Prem in that Sunday will clear the political air and allow the government to move on until the general elections.

Thaksin has not introduced corruption in Thailand. The system has been corrupt long before Thaksin was born. The new constitution gives more power to military and bureaucracy, and where that will lead us we have seen in history. If you would open your eyes, you could see for example, that since the coup the military budget has been increased substantially, more than in a decade, on the cost of budget decreases for much needed social policy budgets. This is not just police corruption for institutions, but if you know how business works in Thailand, this is direct personal corruption as well due to increased leakage for military contracts directly into the hands of the officers overseeing those contracts.

At least corrupt politicians can be voted out by the populace, while our new lords and masters are beyond public scrutiny. Nothing new there, we had decades of similar systems in Thailand, and decades of Thais fighting against that in favor of more democracy, more public scrutiny and more power of elected politicians.

A step forward is not re-introducing the same powers that have proven themselves countless times not being able to govern the country, but to start trusting democratic systems sorting faults out by itself in the democratic way. But democracy has never been given a real chance here - the first severe crisis since the introduction of the '97 constitution led to complete abolishment. Accepting the new constitution means to legitimize such extra-constitutional actions, and sets a precedent for the next crises.

[yeti]

A summary of the debate on the 1997 Constitution vs. 2007 Constitution: Charan-Jirmsak-Somkid vs. Nidhi-Chaturon-Vorachet

At 9.00 a.m. on 3 August 2007, People Network for Election in Thailand (P-NET), Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL), and Committee for the Campaign for Human Rights organized a debate on the weaknesses and strengths of the 2007 draft constitution at the auditorium of Ban Manangkasila. The event was also broadcast live by the Nation Channel and Prachatai Website.

Click here to read the rest of the article on the Prachatai english website.

[cmsally]

I don't know quite how there can be any debate on this. As far as I am concerned the government was overthrown by a military coup, a new military government installed, they picked the judges to decide the case against the 2 main political parties. Democrats must have wormed their way into the military's good books as they survived. Military picked most (but probably all) of those responsible for setting up the new constitution. They also have a stranglehold on the media so we see no real debate about the state of affairs including the constitution and now people are having to vote on the country's future under an illegal government. Advertising campaign looks very bias as is often headed by a green light in some posters which to me suggest a go/for vote.

Also appealing to the more superstitious voters in BKK by suggesting a vote for will get the country out of its run of bad luck.

For a country to return to such a situation in 2007 is a great shame and sets a horrifying precedent for the future.

Looks more like payback time, which says a lot about Thai politics.

[John K]

Colpyat I agree with you that new faces are needed. No mater how many times you rearrange something it is still the same thing. That does pose the question as why that does not happen. As I see it there are only two possible answers to that question. Non qualified or they are discouraged by the old faces one way or another.

Although that is a bit off topic, I feel the new charter makes it easier for new faces to enter the political arina.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat I agree with you that new faces are needed. No mater how many times you rearrange something it is still the same thing. That does pose the question as why that does not happen. As I see it there are only two possible answers to that question. Non qualified or they are discouraged by the old faces one way or another.

Although that is a bit off topic, I feel the new charter makes it easier for new faces to enter the political arina.

Actually, no, it doesn't.

The new charter gives far more power to the military and burocracy apparatus, and takes power away from elected politicians. If "new faces" decide to enter politics, then their voices under the new charter will be given far less weight.

TRT had many "new faces", admittedly though - they did not hold much power within TRT, but they did exist. Now though, after the blanket ban of the 111 executives, many of those "new faces" have no chance, while the godfather style politicians can simply continue by both sending their front men, and by making alliances with the military. Which has happened already.

Anything that has happened since the coup was nothing else than getting power in Thailand back into the hands of the military and bureaucracy, equally corrupt, and riddled with factional infighting, and very little public scrutiny.

[Mid]

Overseas Thai students urge 'no' on new Constitution

Tue, August 14, 2007 : Last updated 16:10 hours

A group of Thai students in foreign countries has issued a petition encouraging Thais to vote against the draft Constitution.

At press time, 104 people have signed the online petition: http://www.biolawcom.de/petition/.

snip

The Nation

[John K]

Colpyat;

Certainly we are on a topic and position I would enjoy debating with you on if my time allows. However both you and I understand that there are several elements that make up the new draft. I mostly have been looking at how it will curb corruption and that part I am very impressed with.

Your points are no doubt valid but they speak of another element of the draft that I feel is Thai business and I would prefer to let the Thais deal with that. However in general no document will stop a tank if the people in charge of the document get too out of line. No country is immune from that including the USA.

If the people feel the draft gives too much to the military, it does have provisions to change that if enough people back the change.

I don’t want to use too many metaphors because younghusband may get confused but this is like a sculpture. First you rough it out with the big tools, and then finish with the small tools. At the moment the Thai people are at the quarry deciding if they want this piece of roughed out granite or not. Checkout is on Sunday.

[cmsally]

Anything that has happened since the coup was nothing else than getting power in Thailand back into the hands of the military and bureaucracy, equally corrupt, and riddled with factional infighting, and very little public scrutiny.

Agree with this completely. Under the present situation, no chance of getting rid of corruption, it will just move across to another faction.

[Jai Dee]

Cabinet to discuss PR for public referendum with CNS this week

The Cabinet is preparing to discuss public relations work for the upcoming public referendum with the Council for National Security by the end of the week.

The Cabinet will be meeting with Council for National Security Chairman Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน ) in order to discuss measures to encourage public participation in the August 19th public referendum. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Industry Kosit Panpiemras (โฆสิต ปั้นเปี่ยมรัษฎ์ ) will be proposing that the Cabinet revoke its decision to establish the 3rd phase of the Lad Krabang Industrial Estate zone.

Meanwhile Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Social Development and Human Security Paiboon Wattanasiritham (ไพบูลย์ วัฒนศิริธรรม ) will be proposing the restructuring of the million household cattle project, especially changes in the project's name. The Ministry of Education will be proposing a memorandum for educational cooperation between Thailand and Malaysia.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 August 2007