Minister admits local election results 'not good' for Tories as Labour vows 'best is yet to come'

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nobody voted to be poorer.

 

Obviously the electorate didn’t pay a lot of attention to Dianne Abbot when they went to the ballot box last week.

 

 

 

 

How do you know?

 

Labour gained only half of what the Tories lost? What put the other half off Labour?

[Drumbuie]

22 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The main gripe in the U.K is the cost of living crisis and the huge price increases across the board .

   The price rises have been caused by Covid and Ukraine .

A change of Government will not rectify the situation 

No. The price rises have been caused by the Conservative government's continual mishandling of the economy and of Covid. 
A major factor in the increase in the cost of living is the increase in the cost of power. Some years before the Tories, lobbied by the (privatised) energy generation companies allowed the major natural gas storage facility in the North Sea to be run down in order to maximise profits. Thus when Russian natural gas supplies were cut off due to the war in Ukraine, and the stress on energy generation in the UK (gas power having replaced coal-fired) was exacerbated by a fire in the undersea pipeline from Europe, the lack of reserves hit supply, and thus prices, hard.

Another factor in the increase in the cost of living is Brexit   Brexit has increased the cost of importing food from the EU - prior to Brexit, the UK imported the vast majority of its fruit and veg from across the Channel, through the Port of Dover and exported much of its own produce as well.  When we were in the EU, the trucks rolled on and off the ferries with no hindrance. Since Brexit, regulations have seen traffic jams stretching miles back along the motorway to Dover and sending most fresh produce eg live shellfish for the lucrative Spanish and French markets has had to cease, with many firms having to stop trading.  Similarly florists can no longer import fresh flowers from their previous suppliers. Without EU workers, UK farmers were unable to bring in the harvest. It was all predicted and denounced as "Project Fear". But it wasn't.

The mishandling of the Covid epidemic, the delay in lockdown so that the Cheltenham races could go ahead, the regular parties in Downing Street, the appalling waste of money on useless PPE bought from government cronies and donors, the handing out of £££ of Covid support by Rishi Sunak's Treasury to companies, including overseas companies, without even cursory checks, the debacle of his Eat Out To Help Out scheme... ..I could go on, but I'll spare you, and my blood pressure. 

 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, Drumbuie said:

No. The price rises have been caused by the Conservative government's continual mishandling of the economy and of Covid. 
A major factor in the increase in the cost of living is the increase in the cost of power. Some years before the Tories, lobbied by the (privatised) energy generation companies allowed the major natural gas storage facility in the North Sea to be run down in order to maximise profits. Thus when Russian natural gas supplies were cut off due to the war in Ukraine, and the stress on energy generation in the UK (gas power having replaced coal-fired) was exacerbated by a fire in the undersea pipeline from Europe, the lack of reserves hit supply, and thus prices, hard.

Another factor in the increase in the cost of living is Brexit   Brexit has increased the cost of importing food from the EU - prior to Brexit, the UK imported the vast majority of its fruit and veg from across the Channel, through the Port of Dover and exported much of its own produce as well.  When we were in the EU, the trucks rolled on and off the ferries with no hindrance. Since Brexit, regulations have seen traffic jams stretching miles back along the motorway to Dover and sending most fresh produce eg live shellfish for the lucrative Spanish and French markets has had to cease, with many firms having to stop trading.  Similarly florists can no longer import fresh flowers from their previous suppliers. Without EU workers, UK farmers were unable to bring in the harvest. It was all predicted and denounced as "Project Fear". But it wasn't.

The mishandling of the Covid epidemic, the delay in lockdown so that the Cheltenham races could go ahead, the regular parties in Downing Street, the appalling waste of money on useless PPE bought from government cronies and donors, the handing out of £££ of Covid support by Rishi Sunak's Treasury to companies, including overseas companies, without even cursory checks, the debacle of his Eat Out To Help Out scheme... ..I could go on, but I'll spare you, and my blood pressure. 

 

You neglected to mention many other factors that were beyond anyone's control.

 

Typical anti government rant missing vital information.

[Mac Mickmanus]

The Tories did actually oppose Brexit .

The Conservative Government tried to convince the public to vote remain before the vote .

   It was only after the Brexit vote that the Conservatives agreed to follow the will of the people and to get Brexit done and then due to all the Brexit voters across the Political spectrum voting Conservative , they were elected .

   Had Labour agreed to follow the will of the people and get Brexit done, they quite possibly would have been elected .

   Brexit wasn't a Conservative policy , it was just that the Conservative party were the only political party to accept the democratic vote

   

[puchooay]

22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A change of Government will effect how the impacts on ordinary people are addressed.

I hope, if there is a new government, they don't change too much.

 

I consider myself an ordinary person. Throughout the Covid pandemic and the energy crisis I believe the Government have done decent things with financial support for me, my family and other ordinary people.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

You neglected to mention many other factors that were beyond anyone's control.

 

Typical anti government rant missing vital information.

Also forgot to mention the economic catastrophe that Tory MP Truss visited on the nation and which has been a direct contributor to millions of people being faced with increased mortgage interest payments.

 

Surely on the minds of millions of voters as they headed to the polls.

 

’Anti-Government’ well anti Tory for sure, nobody votes to be poorer.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/7bad4783-e6d1-4776-8fa7-4188bbb9d86f

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Tories did actually oppose Brexit .

The Conservative Government tried to convince the public to vote remain before the vote .

   It was only after the Brexit vote that the Conservatives agreed to follow the will of the people and to get Brexit done and then due to all the Brexit voters across the Political spectrum voting Conservative , they were elected .

   Had Labour agreed to follow the will of the people and get Brexit done, they quite possibly would have been elected .

   Brexit wasn't a Conservative policy , it was just that the Conservative party were the only political party to accept the democratic vote

   

The form of the ‘Brexit’ delivered was definitely a Tory policy.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Also forgot to mention the economic catastrophe that Tory MP Truss visited on the nation and which has been a direct contributor to millions of people being faced with increased mortgage interest payments.

 

Surely on the minds of millions of voters as they headed to the polls.

 

’Anti-Government’ well anti Tory for sure, nobody votes to be poorer.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/7bad4783-e6d1-4776-8fa7-4188bbb9d86f

 

 

Indeed, Truss messed up.

 

However, increased interest rates are not a bad thing. They had been far too low for too long. Most sensible people plan for rises when they take out a mortgage. It's common sense to do so.

 

There's no helping people with no common sense.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Indeed, Truss messed up.

 

However, increased interest rates are not a bad thing. They had been far too low for too long. Most sensible people plan for rises when they take out a mortgage. It's common sense to do so.

 

There's no helping people with no common sense.

I’m not sure it was possible millions of people to prepare for the madness of ‘Truss-Economics’.

 

Regardless her policies are directly responsible for hikes in interest rates and that impacted millions of people holding mortgages, who also happen to be voters.

Clearly an issue in the elections of last week.

 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not sure it was possible millions of people to prepare for the madness of ‘Truss-Economics’.

 

Regardless her policies are directly responsible for hikes in interest rates and that impacted millions of people holding mortgages, who also happen to be voters.

Clearly an issue in the elections of last week.

 

I don't recall hearing any stories or quotes from voters blaming Liz Truss or interest rates directly for there voting choices.

 

As for preparing for interest rate rises, there is always small print on applications warning " interest rates may go up aswell as down".

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

40% of the vote equalling an 80 seat majority doesn't sound like democracy to me.

 

Too much for me to want to understand really, I'd just like to see Boris back as Dictator of the UK and Rishi stays as taking care country finance. 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Tories did actually oppose Brexit .

The Conservative Government tried to convince the public to vote remain before the vote .

   It was only after the Brexit vote that the Conservatives agreed to follow the will of the people and to get Brexit done and then due to all the Brexit voters across the Political spectrum voting Conservative , they were elected .

   Had Labour agreed to follow the will of the people and get Brexit done, they quite possibly would have been elected .

   Brexit wasn't a Conservative policy , it was just that the Conservative party were the only political party to accept the democratic vote

   

What party did Jacob Rees-Mog and the other fellow, Boris something or other belong to?. And a lot of back benchers. Cameron called for a referendum because he was facing a pro-Brexit rebellion in his own party.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Indeed, Truss messed up.

 

However, increased interest rates are not a bad thing. They had been far too low for too long. Most sensible people plan for rises when they take out a mortgage. It's common sense to do so.

 

There's no helping people with no common sense.

Agreed a rise in interest rates from the previous very low levels are not necessarily a bad thing but the scale of speed of the rises has been the problem.

 

Average mortgage interest rates in November 21 were 3.59%. They are now 7.41% with another increase likely this week. 

 

It seems inappropriate to criticise people as lacking common sense for not planning a rise of over 100% in their mortgage rates over a period of 18 months.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

Agreed a rise in interest rates from the previous very low levels are not necessarily a bad thing but the scale of speed of the rises has been the problem.

 

Average mortgage interest rates in November 21 were 3.59%. They are now 7.41% with another increase likely this week. 

 

It seems inappropriate to criticise people as lacking common sense for not planning a rise of over 100% in their mortgage rates over a period of 18 months.

Average 7.41%?

 

I've just done a quick search and the highest was 6.3%. The average obviously being lower.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Average 7.41%?

 

I've just done a quick search and the highest was 6.3%. The average obviously being lower.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/mortgage-rate

 

Even taking your figure of 6.3% that amounts to a +/-75% rise.

 

My point about it being unreasonable to criticise people for not planning for increases of that magnitude remains valid.

[youreavinalaff]

9 hours ago, RayC said:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/mortgage-rate

 

Even taking your figure of 6.3% that amounts to a +/-75% rise.

 

My point about it being unreasonable to criticise people for not planning for increases of that magnitude remains valid.

If interest rates were, say, 8% I would agree it would be unreasonable to plan for a 75% increase. I know. I had a mortgage when rates increased 5% in a day.

 

However, when base rates are 1% it is not unreasonable. Think of it as points increase. To plan for a 3% rise in base rates should always be in people's plans. It certainly has always been in mine and the lenders I have borrowed from.

 

To me it's sensible planning for the future. Something I have always done. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I was fully paid up and mortgage free by the time I was 53.

[Chomper Higgot]

43 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If interest rates were, say, 8% I would agree it would be unreasonable to plan for a 75% increase. I know. I had a mortgage when rates increased 5% in a day.

 

However, when base rates are 1% it is not unreasonable. Think of it as points increase. To plan for a 3% rise in base rates should always be in people's plans. It certainly has always been in mine and the lenders I have borrowed from.

 

To me it's sensible planning for the future. Something I have always done. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I was fully paid up and mortgage free by the time I was 53.

Nevertheless, a Tory Prime Minister and her Chancellor of the Exchequer embarked on a ‘policy’ of economic madness which has directly resulted  in what is for very many a crippling increase in mortgage interest rates.

 

As I said at the time, I look forward to the May Elections.

 

The people have spoken.

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nevertheless, a Tory Prime Minister and her Chancellor of the Exchequer embarked on a ‘policy’ of economic madness which has directly resulted  in what is for very many a crippling increase in mortgage interest rates.

 

As I said at the time, I look forward to the May Elections.

 

The people have spoken.

Also created a pleasant situation for those who have the ability to control their finances and save. They are voters too.

 

Along with those happy to see interest rates rise to stall the housing market rises.

[BritManToo]

19 hours ago, RayC said:

Average mortgage interest rates in November 21 were 3.59%. They are now 7.41% with another increase likely this week. 

If mortgage rates are 7.41%, why is my UK bank only paying me 0.5% on my savings?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If mortgage rates are 7.41%, why is my UK bank only paying me 0.5% on my savings?

Because your savings are not a mortgage.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because your savings are not a mortgage.

The bank uses my savings to finance others mortgages.

If I were still living in the UK, I'd have my money in a box under the bed.

No point in anyone letting the banks use their savings any more.

 

Would be interesting if everyone withdrew all their savings on the same day.

[Mac Mickmanus]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If mortgage rates are 7.41%, why is my UK bank only paying me 0.5% on my savings?

You can easily get 4.% interest rate on savings in UK banks these days 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

If interest rates were, say, 8% I would agree it would be unreasonable to plan for a 75% increase. I know. I had a mortgage when rates increased 5% in a day.

 

However, when base rates are 1% it is not unreasonable. Think of it as points increase. To plan for a 3% rise in base rates should always be in people's plans. It certainly has always been in mine and the lenders I have borrowed from.

 

To me it's sensible planning for the future. Something I have always done. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I was fully paid up and mortgage free by the time I was 53.

I agree that allowing some contingency for rate rises is prudent but why 3% and not 2% or 4%? It is an arbitrary figure.

 

Given that the trend in mortgage rates has been downwards since 1990 there was little indication that rates would rise so high, so quickly. As I said previously, no one foresaw that mortgage rates would rise by 75%+ within 18 months. Tying up 3% of one's capital in contingency (+/-£4kpa on a £250k mortgage@6%) has an opportunity cost; that money could be invested elsewhere.

[puchooay]

17 hours ago, RayC said:

I agree that allowing some contingency for rate rises is prudent but why 3% and not 2% or 4%? It is an arbitrary figure.

 

Given that the trend in mortgage rates has been downwards since 1990 there was little indication that rates would rise so high, so quickly. As I said previously, no one foresaw that mortgage rates would rise by 75%+ within 18 months. Tying up 3% of one's capital in contingency (+/-£4kpa on a £250k mortgage@6%) has an opportunity cost; that money could be invested elsewhere.

In my view ;

 

Surely anyone with an iota of knowledge and thought would have realised rates could only go one way.

 

Anyone who can get a 250k mortgage should have that knowledge.

 

I'm not sure why you mention "tying up capital". Surely it is just living withing one's means, isn't it?

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, puchooay said:

In my view ;

 

Surely anyone with an iota of knowledge and thought would have realised rates could only go one way.

 

Anyone who can get a 250k mortgage should have that knowledge.

 

I'm not sure why you mention "tying up capital". Surely it is just living withing one's means, isn't it?

Living within one means is a lot easier when there are no idiots enacting dogmatic economic lunacy that directly causes a massive increase in mortgage interest payments.

 

All Truss had to do was nothing.

 

The electorate have noticed she couldn’t even do that. 
 

And why wouldn’t the electorate notice, millions are now paying significantly higher mortgage interest rates.

 

 

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Living within one means is a lot easier when there are no idiots enacting dogmatic economic lunacy that directly causes a massive increase in mortgage interest payments.

 

All Truss had to do was nothing.

 

The electorate have noticed she couldn’t even do that. 
 

And why wouldn’t the electorate notice, millions are now paying significantly higher mortgage interest rates.

 

 

Massive increase? Not really.

 

If people can't take care of their ien finances, they can hardly stand there and blame the government for making a mistake.

 

You say the electorate have noticed. You seem to know a lot of people.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, puchooay said:

In my view ;

 

Surely anyone with an iota of knowledge and thought would have realised rates could only go one way.

 

Anyone who can get a 250k mortgage should have that knowledge.

 

I'm not sure why you mention "tying up capital". Surely it is just living withing one's means, isn't it?

HIndsight makes geniuses of us all.

[transam]

On 5/9/2023 at 4:21 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Also forgot to mention the economic catastrophe that Tory MP Truss visited on the nation and which has been a direct contributor to millions of people being faced with increased mortgage interest payments.

 

Surely on the minds of millions of voters as they headed to the polls.

 

’Anti-Government’ well anti Tory for sure, nobody votes to be poorer.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/7bad4783-e6d1-4776-8fa7-4188bbb9d86f

 

 

My first house mortgage was 11%, boy they have it great today.....????

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, transam said:

My first house mortgage was 11%, boy they have it great today.....????

And when was that house purchased? You'r'e not taking into account how much the cost of housing has risen.

[transam]

Just now, placeholder said:

And when was that house purchased? You'r'e not taking into account how much the cost of housing has risen.

And you haven't taken into account wages at that time....................????