Retire Sooner? Or Later? What Would You Do?

[Oldboy]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old, but it has happened, and we are setting it up to live in Thailand, probably Chiang Mai, when we quit working. We are trying to decide when that will be. Sooner, or later?

We could do it as soon as September 2008 with 500K THB in the bank and a combined monthly income of 35K THB. We could squeak by on the retirement visa financial requirement with that. If we forego a planned trip to the region this year, we could have another 125K THB in the bank. After two years, our monthly income would increase to 55K THB. So, that's the "sooner" scenario.

Or, we could wait. If we retire in 2010, our monthly will be 65K THB and we should have an even million THB banked. That's the "later" scenario. Every year we put it off, our monthly retirement income goes up, and we bank more, but 2010 is as long as we will wait.

Which would you choose? Retire next year at 35K a month with 500K banked, or wait two more years and live on 65K with a million banked?

And, yes, we did not plan this very well at all, never expecting to live this long.

[Neeranam]

If you're over 70, do it now.

[twix38]

i wouldn't retire there. I would expect to return to UK once a year for a break and to see family and friends and other paperwork etc requirements and enjoy 1, 2 or 3 months here of our summer (hopefully). Then you just get a non immigrant O visa for the next 9 months+ in Thailand. Do 2+ border runs each 3 months as a holiday or a one day visa run before the next years eagerly awaited short trip home. Then retire there once you really KNOW it's ALL right for you both for the rest of your lives. I expect for many it turns a bit sour after years and il health probably forces many back here with little money left. You can only bring back 50,000 Baht each trip without tor tor 3 etc. There are many reasons NOT to commit to LOS (Land of Smiles)

If you do expect to return to UK, then...........No money kept in Thailand. No risk to your capital. No requirements other than visa run after 3 months.

Test to see what life is like first before jumping in and sending funds to Thailand.

Personally, after seeing through some of the smiles and becoming aware of the foreigners lot, I have the oppinion that Thailand is great for a holiday of what ever length (cheap, weather, girls etc) , but without financial commitment and without burning bridges.

Use a Nationwide flex card to withdraw funds

Golden rule = Don't take more into Thailand than you can afford to walk away from.

Edited July 6, 2007 by twix38

[Eff1n2ret]

Both the previous posts have got it right.

I mean, how old are you? Your decision has far more to do with your personal circumstances than whether or not you go and live in Thailand.

If I retired now I could "squeak by" in Thailand on a small pension. However, I am trading off the drudgery of another couple of years working for employers I despise against netting another £45k+ in that time and then have a more adequate pension, more than enough to live on there. The finishing post doesn't look that far away, so I can probably hack it.

"Up to you"

[retiredusn]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old, but it has happened, and we are setting it up to live in Thailand, probably Chiang Mai, when we quit working. We are trying to decide when that will be. Sooner, or later?

We could do it as soon as September 2008 with 500K THB in the bank and a combined monthly income of 35K THB. We could squeak by on the retirement visa financial requirement with that. If we forego a planned trip to the region this year, we could have another 125K THB in the bank. After two years, our monthly income would increase to 55K THB. So, that's the "sooner" scenario.

Or, we could wait. If we retire in 2010, our monthly will be 65K THB and we should have an even million THB banked. That's the "later" scenario. Every year we put it off, our monthly retirement income goes up, and we bank more, but 2010 is as long as we will wait.

Which would you choose? Retire next year at 35K a month with 500K banked, or wait two more years and live on 65K with a million banked?

And, yes, we did not plan this very well at all, never expecting to live this long.

Since your from the US I would guess you are refering to social security benifits plus what ever savings. I retired early (only because I could) and have not regreted it at all but if you are sure of Thailand as a retirement home go for it...But I would strongly suggest you take care of the retirement visa (oa) in the US prior to coming here, that way the first hurtle is over and you do not have too worry about visa runs ect. Enjoy while you can Good Luck

[Jingthing]

You are TWO people.

Don't you need DOUBLE the figures you mentioned?

I thought the rule had changed to require that for married farang couples.

If so, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

How about Mexico?

Edited July 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[ronz28]

I would wait the two years. I don't live there but from my visits and reading about cost of living you would need additional income to be prepared for contingencies. What if you have to return to your country and couldn't get a job at your age what ever that is.... could you... would your Thailand income be enough? Make hay while the sun shines.

Edited July 6, 2007 by ronz28

[Oldboy]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old

To clarifly the age question, if we retire in late 2008, I will be 62 and my wife 60. I would be drawing Social Security and my wife a pension from her job. In 2010, she would also start drawing Social Security.

If we wait until 2010, I would be 64 and collecting an increased amount from SS, my wife would have SS and an increased pension from her job.

And we would almost certainly have more savings.

[misterme]

If you can retire now, why even question it.

Life is too short. Do it Now!

[farang prince]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old, but it has happened, and we are setting it up to live in Thailand, probably Chiang Mai, when we quit working. We are trying to decide when that will be. Sooner, or later?

We could do it as soon as September 2008 with 500K THB in the bank and a combined monthly income of 35K THB. We could squeak by on the retirement visa financial requirement with that. If we forego a planned trip to the region this year, we could have another 125K THB in the bank. After two years, our monthly income would increase to 55K THB. So, that's the "sooner" scenario.

Or, we could wait. If we retire in 2010, our monthly will be 65K THB and we should have an even million THB banked. That's the "later" scenario. Every year we put it off, our monthly retirement income goes up, and we bank more, but 2010 is as long as we will wait.

Which would you choose? Retire next year at 35K a month with 500K banked, or wait two more years and live on 65K with a million banked?

And, yes, we did not plan this very well at all, never expecting to live this long.

My guess is that you and your wife are in your early 60's. Are both of you working? Is your retirement income based solely on Social Security or on 401k funds or company retirement funds? Personally I would not retire to Thailand on 35k Baht a month. Frankly, that is pretty marginal. I have two retirements -- military and law enforcement -- that total 79k Bt a month. But we also split our time 50/50 between Thailand and the USA (just as a sanity check). We live well but conservatively and so far after four years I haven't touched my investment income.

[ThaiPauly]

Whatever you decide to do, if either of you suffer from Astma or bronchial problems the re-consder your choice of location.

However if I were you I would do it now...who knows whats around the corner?

I packed up at 49 and I don't regret it.

[Naam]

You are TWO people.

Don't you need DOUBLE the figures you mentioned?

I thought the rule had changed to require that for married farang couples.

If so, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

the rule has not changed. THB 65k/month or show 800k p.a. = sufficient for farang couple.

[puuchai299]

Presumably you have already spent time in Thailand and like it well enough to want to retire here,If that be the case then what the hel_l,go for it now,relax and enjoy.good luck...

[Penkoprod]

To be honest you would always be struggling to meet the visa requirements, finance-wise, should you retire to Thailand

Putting it bluntly (and i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings here) you are borderline now. Just think to what it will be like should the Baht continue its slow, but steady climb back up to what it was pre 1997

Could you meet the financial requirements at an exchange rate of say, 25 TBH to the Dollar?

Would you be able to meet any increases the Thai authorities impose on the requirements....say to a million Baht a year for a retirement visa?

Only you can answer those questions, but, if you are honest with yourself, i think your answer will be "no"

So, in all honesty, i wouldnt consider retiring to LOS..........better to see it as a nice place for a few weeks/months per year, with no looking over your shoulder, waiting for the day the hammer falls, and you will be forced to either look elsewhere in the region (cheaper) or to return home to US

Its OK flying by the seat of your pants, when you are in your 20's, 30's and early 40's, but not at an age when all you want to do is potter about.

What i suppose i am saying is we all have to cut our coat according to our cloth, and, to be brutally frank, you seem to not have enough cloth to have a comfortable retirement in LOS

Penkoprod

[astral]

Retire as soon as you can.

There is no point in carrying on working, when you can be enjoying life.

I retired at 50.

I still do some contract work, but the rest of the time is mine.

[Oldboy]

To be honest you would always be struggling to meet the visa requirements, finance-wise, should you retire to Thailand

Putting it bluntly (and i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings here) you are borderline now. Just think to what it will be like should the Baht continue its slow, but steady climb back up to what it was pre 1997

Could you meet the financial requirements at an exchange rate of say, 25 TBH to the Dollar?

Would you be able to meet any increases the Thai authorities impose on the requirements....say to a million Baht a year for a retirement visa?

Only you can answer those questions, but, if you are honest with yourself, i think your answer will be "no"

So, in all honesty, i wouldnt consider retiring to LOS..........better to see it as a nice place for a few weeks/months per year, with no looking over your shoulder, waiting for the day the hammer falls, and you will be forced to either look elsewhere in the region (cheaper) or to return home to US

Its OK flying by the seat of your pants, when you are in your 20's, 30's and early 40's, but not at an age when all you want to do is potter about.

What i suppose i am saying is we all have to cut our coat according to our cloth, and, to be brutally frank, you seem to not have enough cloth to have a comfortable retirement in LOS

Penkoprod

You make some good points, and thanks for your frankness. As I said in the OP, we did not prepare for this well at all. We didn't save, we traveled. We stayed in less well-paid jobs with lots of time off rather than take career paths that paid well but kept us working long hours and demanded levels of commitment we were unwilling to live with. As a result, we are ill-prepared for retirement, compared to many.

We live in San Diego. If we can't afford to retire to Thailand, then given the cost of living here in Southern California, we will just work until we die, or if we are forced to quit our jobs, just immediately kill ourselves.

Seriously, we know that we will just be getting by, living at a level that many would find unacceptable, but we have been traveling the region enjoyably, getting by on roughly the same amount. We are most interested in exploring more of Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar, hence a projected Chiang Mai base. We like the areas in the region that remind us of Thailand 25 years ago.

We will have medical/repatriation insurance, and several hundred thousand frequent flyer miles for any flights back to the states. We are active and in good health.

We have not lived our lives playing it safe by any measure, and it's just too late to start. If it doesn't work out, we can always come back and mooch off our kids.

[bendix]

Am I the only poster who thinks that 500k in the bank and a monthly income of 35k is VERY VERY small amount to leave one's country for (in your sixties) for the uncertainties of living abroad?

Frankly, even the 2010 option doesnt sound that attractive, although much much better.

Reading between the lines I'm assuming you have no property or other assets back home.

I would seriously advise you to wait two years when it sounds like you can double your financial position. It's only 2-3 years.

(PS . I'm confused by your assertion you never expected to live this old. You're early sixties? What do you do for a living? Professional stuntman?)

[Oldboy]

(PS . I'm confused by your assertion you never expected to live this old. You're early sixties? What do you do for a living? Professional stuntman?)

Not exactly. But I'm a Vietnam War veteran, both Army and Navy. I was a mine worker, a teamster and an industrial electrician. I have been a yacht racer and a commercial fisherman. I am a lifetime motorcyclist and no stranger to crashes. I have been hit by cars twice as a pedestrian. I have been stabbed in the chest and hit in the head with a baseball bat. I have had thirteen broken bones (not counting fingers and toes) and seven trauma operations. I have had over a thousand stitches in my body.

Evidently I am immortal, but sadly, not invulnerable to serious injury.

And now I'm a middle manager, with all the associated stresses and hazards. Hardest thing I ever did.

[JimGant]

I have been stabbed in the chest and hit in the head with a baseball bat. I have had thirteen broken bones (not counting fingers and toes) and seven trauma operations. I have had over a thousand stitches in my body.

You'll get bored in Chiang Mai. Have you considered Iraq?

[Penkoprod]

You make some good points, and thanks for your frankness. As I said in the OP, we did not prepare for this well at all. We didn't save, we traveled. We stayed in less well-paid jobs with lots of time off rather than take career paths that paid well but kept us working long hours and demanded levels of commitment we were unwilling to live with. As a result, we are ill-prepared for retirement, compared to many.

We live in San Diego. If we can't afford to retire to Thailand, then given the cost of living here in Southern California, we will just work until we die, or if we are forced to quit our jobs, just immediately kill ourselves.

Seriously, we know that we will just be getting by, living at a level that many would find unacceptable, but we have been traveling the region enjoyably, getting by on roughly the same amount. We are most interested in exploring more of Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar, hence a projected Chiang Mai base. We like the areas in the region that remind us of Thailand 25 years ago.

We will have medical/repatriation insurance, and several hundred thousand frequent flyer miles for any flights back to the states. We are active and in good health.

We have not lived our lives playing it safe by any measure, and it's just too late to start. If it doesn't work out, we can always come back and mooch off our kids.

Its not the fact that you haven't got sufficiant funds to live thats the problem, its the funds needed to meet any long term visa requirements that will come back to bite you in the ass, and preclude you having a base of any substance in Thailand.

That said, though, you have answered your own question. Does the expression "have suitcase will travel" strike a chord with you ?

And, it doesn't matter what others find acceptable, or not, its down to you to decide how and what you can live on and how well you can live on what you have.

You give 2 dates here.....whats wrong with splitting the difference, and working towards 2009 as a date and putting by as much as you can til then and getting the hel_l out of the rat race then?

You seem to have had a rich and interesting life, and one that might put you in a good position to do a bit of "ducking and diving, bobbing and weaving" as we say in my country. Pan-handling, in other words should the need arise.

A little bit of "off the books" work now and again when the opportunity arises can go a long way to extending your roaming lifestyle

And, like you say, you will always have "mooching off the kids" to fall back on should the need arise.

One more thing to consider is what your wife feels about this lifestyle you are aiming at.

On a practical note (and a morbid one) one of you will die before the other. What if its you that goes 1st? Woud she be able to cope out there on her own? Would you be able to cope on YOUR own, should the opposite happen and she goes before you? This is probably a more important question you should be asking yourselves, than any monetary questions

Penkoprod

[LPCustom69]

If you own your home in San Diego, then you have a sizable nest egg there. Don't forget contingencies for hospital expenses as most insurance (from what I've been told) doesn't apply in Thailand. I think you may be a little low on what you think you'll be getting from SS. I would retire as soon as you both think that it's the right thing to do.

(PS . I'm confused by your assertion you never expected to live this old. You're early sixties? What do you do for a living? Professional stuntman?)

Not exactly. But I'm a Vietnam War veteran, both Army and Navy. I was a mine worker, a teamster and an industrial electrician. I have been a yacht racer and a commercial fisherman. I am a lifetime motorcyclist and no stranger to crashes. I have been hit by cars twice as a pedestrian. I have been stabbed in the chest and hit in the head with a baseball bat. I have had thirteen broken bones (not counting fingers and toes) and seven trauma operations. I have had over a thousand stitches in my body.

Evidently I am immortal, but sadly, not invulnerable to serious injury.

And now I'm a middle manager, with all the associated stresses and hazards. Hardest thing I ever did.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm American, and at age 56, I retired with two pensions, knowing I'd also draw SS starting at age 62. Went to the poorest state of Mexico, and couldn't live on $950 per month. Ended up in Chiang Mai, and have now been here 4 years, and don't need to work now that I draw the SS pension. However, there have been months I spent over 35,000 baht on....'entertainment.' I have taken numerous solo trips that cost well over 35K, and had two surgeries that cost more than that. I have excellent medical plans, but it's still 4k for this, 5k for that, which never get reimbursed.

I'm with those of us who are saying you need far more than 35K to survive in the long run, allowing for the travel you wish to do. We just had a marathon debate about the cost of living in CMai, and agreed you can't live here cheaply unless you really want to live poor.

Don't even think about living off a lifetime savings of 500K baht. I have a 401(k) type savings, which I never touch, because it's for when I'm in my late 70's or older. You are asking for the kind of trouble that neither of you can solve, if you come here in 2008. I wouldn't be too optimistic about 2010, either. I wish you luck and yes, there's a chance you might do well here. Less than a 1% chance, methinks.

Of course, you could always come on B visas, and teach English. Starting salary in CMai is about 25K each. But it's more stressful than middle management. (:

[Jingthing]

Sorry for the false alarm about visa rule changes for marrieds.

However, I would have to agree with PB that you don't have enough money banked (unless you have a bigger source coming like a US house sale) to have any kind of secure life in Thailand. Yes, you could make it for some years, but you are setting yourself up for a downfall.

[Monkeypants]

I don't know about Chang Mai, but there are plenty of people in other areas of Thailand that live very comfortably on less money than 35k per month, I guess it depends on your lifestyle.

But you could always work until (god forbid) you have a heart attack, stroke or anything else, Me I would get there now, buy a couple of hammocks, relax, chill out, lay back, and life could be one long holiday.

It really doe's depend on what you want to do.

Good luck in what ever you decide.

[PeaceBlondie]

Like that other very long, recent thread, the man intends to retire in Chiang Mai, and I assume he means amphur muang, the central city. We discussed that ad nauseum, and 90% of us agreed that 19K baht per month, for one person, wasn't enough to scrape by on. Some of us are repeating that whilst Geoffrey Upinham may live on 18K in Nakhon Ahnheavensdoor, and Bubbles O'Hooolihan can live in a grass hut outside Satun on 17K, it's hardly a life of leisure for two Americans to survive long term on 35K.

[Big A]

If you can retire now, why even question it.

Life is too short. Do it Now!

Hear hear!! Do it now!!

[retiree]

Here's something that may help your decision process.

The expected lifetime value of your social security is equal, no matter when you start to draw, IF you die more or less when the mortality tables say you should.

However, the facts that a) SS is indexed to US inflation, and that it goes on forever (as far as you're concerned) make it a much safer bet for you to put off filing until 65 or even 70 if you can. It's all about the end game -- delaying now can help insulate you from inflation shocks in your 70's, and make a huge difference in your quality of life when you're in your 80's.

Good luck!

Retiree

[Jingthing]

Here's something that may help your decision process.

The expected lifetime value of your social security is equal, no matter when you start to draw, IF you die more or less when the mortality tables say you should.

However, the facts that a) SS is indexed to US inflation, and that it goes on forever (as far as you're concerned) make it a much safer bet for you to put off filing until 65 or even 70 if you can. It's all about the end game -- delaying now can help insulate you from inflation shocks in your 70's, and make a huge difference in your quality of life when you're in your 80's.

Good luck!

Retiree

And if you do delay it that long, you have a much greater chance of never getting one cent of your social security benefits. It is called death. Sorry, reality check.

Most articles I have read on this issue say clearly, most people are better off filing for ss the moment they are eligible.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

If you can retire now, why even question it.

Life is too short. Do it Now!

Hear hear!! Do it now!!

Can implies having the money to do it. It is never 100 percent whether you have enough or not, but the facts as stated by the OP show clearly, they do not. If they look at it like a long term vacation and they have some idea of how they can return to US without being homeless, that would be more rational. I am usually on the side of the risk takers, but with odds this bad, might as well buy a lottery ticket.

If they can't survive in the US or Mexico on that money, there are some lower cost choices. Ecuador and Nicaragua come to mind and both of those would be visa-possible for them.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[Mahout Angrit]

Whether you can live or survive on a particular sum depends largely on the lifestyle you hope to lead. As in any place in the world, the money you spend on rent/service charges/ maybe utilities will be the largest necessary outgoing. (so do you want A/C, hot water, 3 ensuite bedrooms?)

If you eat off the street or at home it'll be cheap but every fancy restaurant you frequent and every beer you drink will escalate your expenses.

Will you need to run a car or will a m/c do?

Without cash in your pocket for a social life it could be pretty mundane in Chiang Mai, judging by your adventurous life! (or are you happy just in each others company?)

However 2 can probably almost live as cheap as 1 so judging by the quoted much discussed figure you should make it and hopefully should you get in dire straits your kids will bale you out with an air fare home or medical treatment.

If you're sure Thailand is for you I'm in the "Do it now" camp as you dont sound like a wimp to me!

Good luck.