I think I completely missed the point about (not) having kids

[BritManToo]

59 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This of course depends your metric of a good life.... IF working in factory 9-5... going home to an evening of TV, perhaps the Pub with mates on a Friday night... spending all year looking forwards to that 2 week Majorica holiday...  then the outlook may well be different.... 

 

But at least give children an opportunity, rather than wrongly deciding that ‘education’ is not necessary.

I've never seen any evidence that a good education gives a good life.

And what if the kids are no good at school?

Forcing them to go will make them hate you and hate their life.

[Harsh Jones]

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed... Choice... So would you choose that Education is unnecessary for a child because they can get a job as a plumber ????   

Or.. would you give your child the best education you can so they can make their informed choices along the way ???

 

That doesn't mean every youngster has to go to University etc... But at least do our very best to place them in a position where they can make the best choices. 

 

 

Education in the context you are using it in has nothing to do with making informed choices in life. All you need to do is look at all the ppl with 6 digit student debts. 

[bignok]

1 minute ago, Harsh Jones said:

Education in the context you are using it in has nothing to do with making informed choices in life. All you need to do is look at all the ppl with 6 digit student debts. 

Exactly. Higher education only suits some not all. Many people end up with useless degrees or change careers.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

Education in the context you are using it in has nothing to do with making informed choices in life. All you need to do is look at all the ppl with 6 digit student debts. 

Debt is a definitely a major issue. As is cost of education.

 

Making an informed choice also means being in the position to evaluate whether a University education is a viable option - as exampled with some of the responses on this forum, a University education is beyond some people...  they can make an informed choice to do something else. 

 

IF a solid / good education is not provided in the first place, a youngster will never be in the position to make an informed choice about their future at that stage. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

37 minutes ago, bignok said:

Finish school then become a plumber if you want.

Sure, one make great money as a plumber or a shearer. Later in life, their fate is usually crippling rheumatism/arthritis for the former, and chronic back pain for the latter.

[Celsius]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

If I ever made the mistake of propagating, the LAST thing I would do is overspend on a kid of leave them much inheritance. That would rob them of what I found to be life's greatest pleasure, which is meeting challenges and making one's self a success.

 

Let the kid find out what he or she is made of.

 

This is kind of the point of my thread. I have literally nothing to look forward to. I don't care about starting new projects. I don't care about my life in Thailand anymore and this is why I made it one of my projects to move bsck to Canada with wife. I think money is becoming completely meaningless to me and I am by no means rich. So, I agree that giving momey to kids will rob them of certain opportumities in life and send them on a bad path. People are programmed to struggle for survival.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Celsius said:

This is kind of the point of my thread. I have literally nothing to look forward to. I don't care about starting new projects. I don't care about my life in Thailand anymore and this is why I made it one of my projects to move bsck to Canada with wife. I think money is becoming completely meaningless to me and I am by no means rich. So, I agree that giving momey to kids will rob them of certain opportumities in life and send them on a bad path. People are programmed to struggle for survival.

If you mean giving them a load of ‘cash’ then I’d agree..... But you can ‘invest’ in your children in other ways....   Education (as discussed) is a key facet... as is life experience, holidays, travelling, experiences....   that all costs money....   and then of course is the time and dedicated attention needed to guide well rounded individuals.

... a lot of money, a lot of effort and for some of us a feeling that is simply unparalleled, while for others, not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

[IvorBiggun2]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Later in life, their fate is usually crippling rheumatism/arthritis for the former, and chronic back pain for the latter.

Doesn't matter what ones job is/was in life, ailments will surface according to your age and not necessarily your occupation. IMO

[bignok]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Sure, one make great money as a plumber or a shearer. Later in life, their fate is usually crippling rheumatism/arthritis for the former, and chronic back pain for the latter.

Shearing is a lot harder. Plumbers do well. Anyway it's up to individuals to decide. Not many can become surgeons.

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Doesn't matter what ones job is/was in life, ailments will surface according to your age and not necessarily your occupation. IMO

This is true if diet is bad. Office workers can suffer from lack of exercise and poor diet.

[bignok]

20 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

This is kind of the point of my thread. I have literally nothing to look forward to. I don't care about starting new projects. I don't care about my life in Thailand anymore and this is why I made it one of my projects to move bsck to Canada with wife. I think money is becoming completely meaningless to me and I am by no means rich. So, I agree that giving momey to kids will rob them of certain opportumities in life and send them on a bad path. People are programmed to struggle for survival.

I agree with you. I don't care about money either. Rather be around good people.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, bignok said:

I agree with you. I don't care about money either. Rather be around good people.

IMO you would care about money quite a lot if you had none.

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO you would care about money quite a lot if you had none.

I agree. 

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Education (as discussed) is a key facet... as is life experience, holidays, travelling, experiences....   that all costs money....   and then of course is the time and dedicated attention needed to guide well rounded individuals.

Completely disagree on all points.

Education is what your kids make of it, you spending big money won't make them learn.

Holidays also irrelevant, most kids on't want to holiday with their parents, I certainly never did.

 

What would be interesting is for you to share the success stories that came from your spending big money on your kids. How many kids, what sort of holidays and schools, how much time do they spend with you today?

 

Because all the kids I made any big effort with totally blank me now.

All all the kids I spent minimum money on, but was around for seem to still love me.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Doesn't matter what ones job is/was in life, ailments will surface according to your age and not necessarily your occupation. IMO

There are quite a few occupations where ailments associated with that work are statistically much higher than the average for the general population. Black lung in coal miners, silicosis in stone cutters, mesothelioma in brake mechanics.

While it is true more ailments surface with age, they can be dealt with either by medical means, or lifestyle changes.

 

Back on topic, IMO it is a mistake to force kids into higher education if they don't have the desire. Better to let them find their own path.

Some kids know what they want to do as soon as they learn to read and write. I was lucky that way. Others may be successful, but have a life-long

aimlessness. They sometimes work in jobs they despise, even though it pays well.

[richard_smith237]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Completely disagree on all points.

Thats fair enough - we all have different experiences... 

 

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Education is what your kids make of it, you spending big money won't make them learn.

But it will...  Placing them in a better learning environment can make a significant difference. 

Placing a Child in Harrow or Bangkok Patana gives them far greater learning potential than placing them in a local temple school. 

 

We do our best, thats all we can ask of ourselves. 

 

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Holidays also irrelevant, most kids on't want to holiday with their parents, I certainly never did.

Again... disagree - seeing different cultures, eating different foods...  enjoying great family time. 

You may not have enjoyed time with your family... however, I always did and look back fondly on our holidays as a child.

 

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What would be interesting is for you to share the success stories that came from your spending big money on your kids. How many kids, what sort of holidays and schools, how much time do they spend with you today?

Too personal to respond to in detail - but an outstanding school (not a boarding school if thats the implication), all spare time spent with family (us), holidays all over, together, thoroughly enjoyable 

 

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Because all the kids I made any big effort with totally blank me now.

All all the kids I spent minimum money on, but was around for seem to still love me.

To be fair... you’ve given up a lot of information with your posting history and much of the above is not a significant surprise - albeit anecdotal..

 

I thoroughly loved holidays with parents, awesome memories and still spend as much time with the folks as practically possible.

 

From a parental point of view being the best parent is more important than any money... 

That said, I’m not here to be my son’s best friend, I’m here to be the best father I can be and sometimes that means not being his friend, meanwhile I do anything in my power to ensure he’s safe and give him the best tools to become a well rounded human being with the brightest possible future - the rest is also up to him. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

That said, I’m not here to be my son’s best friend, I’m here to be the best father I can be and sometimes that means not being his friend, meanwhile I do anything in my power to ensure he’s safe and give him the best tools to become a well rounded human being with the brightest possible future - the rest is also up to him. 

So you have no adult children and are just speculating on the outcome! 

[Pink Mist]

Baiting and Bickering troll posts have been removed.  The trolling of each other will stop or suspensions will be forthcoming.

 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Back on topic, IMO it is a mistake to force kids into higher education if they don't have the desire. Better to let them find their own path.

Some kids know what they want to do as soon as they learn to read and write. I was lucky that way. Others may be successful, but have a life-long

aimlessness. They sometimes work in jobs they despise, even though it pays well.

Agreed... Give them the opportunity to make their informed choices. 

Selling the children short and putting them in a crappy school limits their opportunity. 

Equally so, pushing a youngster to University when they are not suited is also flawed. 

 

I’ve seen it with friends kids.. one anecdote:

- Daughter, ridiculously bright, off to Oxford Uni.

- Son, nice lad, struggled at school (just finished at 16) - wants out of education.

 

Both are going to have to find something...  the girl has a better chance at a successful future.

There’s no point in forcing the boy into another 2 years of A Levels and then Uni - he’d just enter debt and most likely fail anyway.

Both were given the best opportunities available to them to make their choices.

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

That said, I’m not here to be my son’s best friend, I’m here to be the best father I can be and sometimes that means not being his friend, meanwhile I do anything in my power to ensure he’s safe and give him the best tools to become a well rounded human being with the brightest possible future - the rest is also up to him. 

So you have no adult children and are just speculating on the outcome! 

 

You need to make a better point than that Brit... 

 

Are you suggesting doing whatever we can to ensure our children have the best tools for the future is pointless because in your experience some of them may end up not liking us ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Doesn't matter what ones job is/was in life, ailments will surface according to your age and not necessarily your occupation. IMO

It does matter... a lot of ‘ailments’ as you refer to them are considered an occupational hazard. 

 

That also works both ways... A lawyer is less likely to be as fit as a postman, meanwhile a postman faces elevated risks to health and wealth-fare through other factors. 

 

So this aspect is difficult to quantify... 

 

So.. some may consider putting a child through university so they can work in a factory as a waste, but thats not the point, its gives them the opportunity to not work in a factory.... 

 

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, bignok said:

Exactly. Higher education only suits some not all. Many people end up with useless degrees or change careers.

That's what happens when you chose a uselass degree. Art major or maybe social sciences could be one of those stupid career goals. Pharmacy degree, a Master's in Engineering could be a nice earner. What sane parent wouldn't try to guide their kid's to a good education. 

 

I didn't listen to my father, my son didn't listen to me about college. We both ended in an industry that pays extremely well traveling the world. So, college isn't necessary but it can sure pave the way to a good paying job that doensn't require 12 hr work days 7 days a week for months on end.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

That's what happens when you chose a uselass degree. Art major or maybe social sciences could be one of those stupid career goals. Pharmacy degree, a Master's in Engineering could be a nice earner.

Its a ’sliding scale’ and the type of degree and institution all matter.... 

 

At the very basic level a degree is proof that the the holder has undergone a prolonged course of study, stayed the course and passed.

 

 

15 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

What sane parent wouldn't try to guide their kid's to a good education. 

Exactly...   I suspect some commentators on this forum are trying to justify to themselves that it was ok to completely sell out their children. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I didn't listen to my father, my son didn't listen to me about college. We both ended in an industry that pays extremely well traveling the world. So, college isn't necessary but it can sure pave the way to a good paying job that doensn't require 12 hr work days 7 days a week for months on end.

Sounds like the Oil industry - a lot of uneducated people were very lucky to get a foot in the door and get a break without which they’d be in a factory and lucky to make a 5th of their income. 

 

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

kids are usefull in old age when you need some help to cut your toenails and many other things

[BritManToo]

48 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You need to make a better point than that Brit... 

 

Are you suggesting doing whatever we can to ensure our children have the best tools for the future is pointless because in your experience some of them may end up not liking us ?

 

The point I'm making is you've not raised any kids, but insist on telling us how it should be done. 

[richard_smith237]

 

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The point I'm making is you've not raised any kids, but insist on telling us how it should be done. 

Are you suggesting that only those who have raised kids could possibly understand the importance of education ???

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Are you suggesting that only those who have raised kids could possibly understand the importance of education ???

Absolutely!

Until you've seen the outcome, you can't know.

And the more educated your children are, the less time they will spend with you as adults.

Obviously, they will suddenly become more interested in you when there's the prospect of an inheritance in the near future.

[473geo]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You seem to be of the impression that a happy healthy childhood and excellent education are mutually exclusive - this is not so. 

 

It's perfectly possible to have both a wonderfully happy childhood and an excellent education at the same time (there are good examples in Thailand: Harrow, Bangkok Patana etc).

 

Giving the child as many tools as possible so they have choice and can make informed choices is one of the best gifts we can give them for their future success.

 

How that success is measured is individual, as you mentioned, high-salary jobs may not be that measure, but having a great education doesn’t mean a child will go into a high salary high pressure job, it just means they’ll have a greater choice and greater opportunity. 

 

But.. If a child does not show the potential for eduction, there are all other options - its all about doing our best to help our children meet their potential - Not doing this and not giving them the best chance is selling them short IMO.  Those who don't value education should not be having children IMO. 

 

Richard I was a day boy at a public school and to see the highlight of the month being the 'tuck box' sent by parents did not endear me to the idea of children being boarded in the school environment, just my opinion of 'higher learning' 

Today I have been making oatmeal biscuit mix with my 4 year old grand daughter, teaching her how to break eggs into the mix, hopefully it will serve her well, making her own 'tuck box' memories of grandpa ????

[Don Chance]

Here all the links that prove that having children will make you unhappy.

 

https://healthland.time.com/2011/04/1... https://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases... https://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/08/he... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst... https://psychcentral.com/lib/3-relati...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45732371 https://www.todaysparent.com/family/p... https://www.todaysparent.com/family/p... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl... https://www.theatlantic.com/family/ar... https://fortune.com/2016/05/09/mother... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar... https://www.privateschoolreview.com/t... https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2... https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsaf... https://www.goodto.com/family/ways-ki...

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Are you suggesting that only those who have raised kids could possibly understand the importance of education ???

Absolutely!

Until you've seen the outcome, you can't know.

This is difficult to address because its such a ridiculous point....

 

- If you don't know the outcome why would choose not to give your children the best education you can get for them ?????

 

 

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

And the more educated your children are, the less time they will spend with you as adults.

Sure about that ????..    Kids who as adults who don’t want to spend time with their parents probably do so because of a flawed family environment. 

 

And this is certainly not a reason to sabotage a child’s eduction. it seems ridiculously selfish, even more so as it comes from someone who’s openly admitted his children don’t like him.

 

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Obviously, they will suddenly become more interested in you when there's the prospect of an inheritance in the near future.

Seems like someone is projecting Brit.. not everyone thinks like you do.