Move Forward party advised to stay away from changing Thai national day

[webfact]

The Move Forward party has been advised to focus on addressing “bread-and-butter” issues, instead of advocating for a change of Thailand’s national day, from December 5th to June 24th, which is likely to create more friction among Thai people.

 

The advice was given by Srettha Thavisin, one of the Pheu Thai party’s three prime ministerial candidates and chief advisor to Paetongtarn Shinawatra, head of the Pheu Thai “Family”.

Move Forward MP Rangsiman Rome said recently that the party will push to change the Thai national day to June 24th.

 

June 24th, 1932 was the day when a group of mostly foreign-educated bureaucrats, military personnel and civilians, called Khana Ratsadon (People’s Party), staged a bloodless revolution to transform Thailand from an absolute to a constitutional monarchy, during the reign of King Prajadhipok.

 

Top picture: Rangsiman Rome

#news

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/move-forward-party-advised-to-stay-away-from-changing-thai-national-day/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2023-06-28

 

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[NanLaew]

But it was OK for the caretaker PM to pull arbitrary regional and national holidays out of his butt in order to "bring happiness to the people".

 

I see.

[bannork]

I agree with Settha here. There's no point in ruffling feathers about something most Thais don't even know about.

Concentrate on real, tangible reforms, don't tinker with trivia.

[bamnutsak]

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

 

 

I'm hoping the next government replaces the 1932 Plaque which mysteriously walked away after all of the surveillance cameras stopped working.

 

 

Most physical vestiges of 1932 have been disappeared, systematically, on purpose.

 

Having a National Day is a good idea.

 

Keeping December 5 as a holiday in remembrance of Rama 9 is also a good idea. But call it that, and not "National Day".

 

 

 

 

[bannork]

8 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

 

 

I'm hoping the next government replaces the 1932 Plaque which mysteriously walked away after all of the surveillance cameras stopped working.

 

 

Most physical vestiges of 1932 have been disappeared, systematically, on purpose.

 

Having a National Day is a good idea.

 

Keeping December 5 as a holiday in remembrance of Rama 9 is also a good idea. But call it that, and not "National Day".

 

 

 

 

True, but know when to fight your battles. MF are not even the government yet 

[wwest5829]

A cited mistake throughout history has been reformers moving too quickly before bringing the stakeholders along at a moderate speed after doing a lot of educating as to the reasoning, need for the change. Alienate too many in the beginning and good luck with the desired/needed reforms.

[bamnutsak]

5 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

A cited mistake throughout history

Can you share some examples of this?

 

And the success of slow-moving reforms?

 

And how are these applicable to Thailand?

 

Maybe Thais feel like there haven't been any real reforms for ages, if anything maybe things have moved backwards since 1997 or 2006. And they're anxious for more, bigger faster reforms? The groundswell for reforms of the Institution is shocking to me, I can't imagine how shocking they must be to traditionalists and ultra-nationalists. 

 

IMO, talking about, and entertaining the IDEA of reforms is perfectly acceptable and should be encouraged. And not discouraged as property developer Sreetha is offering as his "advice". If you aren't free to talk about something then are you really free?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

Good advice.

 

Play the slow game. Get yourselves established before taking on contentious issues. No point needlessly ruffling feathers until you've got your feet well and truly under the table.

[wwest5829]

21 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Can you share some examples of this?

 

And the success of slow-moving reforms?

 

And how are these applicable to Thailand?

 

Maybe Thais feel like there haven't been any real reforms for ages, if anything maybe things have moved backwards since 1997 or 2006. And they're anxious for more, bigger faster reforms? The groundswell for reforms of the Institution is shocking to me, I can't imagine how shocking they must be to traditionalists and ultra-nationalists. 

 

IMO, talking about, and entertaining the IDEA of reforms is perfectly acceptable and should be encouraged. And not discouraged as property developer Sreetha is offering as his "advice". If you aren't free to talk about something then are you really free?

 

 

 

 

 

 

First, I hope you are not misreading me. I certainly am not discouraging reform. I only caution dumping too many promises to reform too many things too quickly. Agreed there is pent up frustration/anger. I have witnessed this in the U.S., as well. Yes, as a retired Professor of History, I could go back to the books a cite specific reformed minded Popes and national political leaders who failed as a result of moving to do too much, too quickly and causing various interest groups to join together to bring down the reformer but then you are capable of researching this by asking the question on the internet. Much quicker to get references than my going back to the books … being long retired the specific names no longer pop readily into my head. Currently, I am occupied with reading Michener’s book, “Caribbean”. Great historical novel of the area and the social reforms, much of them racial, that were to come about. Drag your feet and resist change and you face the distinct possibility of revolt. Move too quickly and the greater the chance for major push back from those facing a loss of power/money from the current conditions slowing or stopping the reforms.

[h90]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

I agree with Settha here. There's no point in ruffling feathers about something most Thais don't even know about.

Concentrate on real, tangible reforms, don't tinker with trivia.

yes it is an irrelevant distraction....can be done after 2 years in office.

[bamnutsak]

5 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I only caution dumping too many promises to reform too many things too quickly.

But this is just one idea, that Rangsiman (admittedly a definite thorn in the side of the dinosaurs) is proposing. It is not a promise. Just an idea being put forth for discussion.

 

If the immediate knee-jerk reaction is to stop talking about it you know you've hit a nerve. 

 

I get the whole go slowly, so slowly that you lull opponents into going along with you, but does that really work? I mean other than when cooking frogs or lobsters?

 

 

 

 

[bannork]

The problem with announcing changing the National Day now is it's meat to the conservative forces who will seize on it as an example of MF's desire to overthrow everything. traditional in Thailand.

One doesn't have to be Einstein to understand the intention behind the removal of monuments commemorating Thai democracy in recent years,  as a consequence MF should wait until they're securely in power, imo 

[wwest5829]

5 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

But this is just one idea, that Rangsiman (admittedly a definite thorn in the side of the dinosaurs) is proposing. It is not a promise. Just an idea being put forth for discussion.

 

If the immediate knee-jerk reaction is to stop talking about it you know you've hit a nerve. 

 

I get the whole go slowly, so slowly that you lull opponents into going along with you, but does that really work? I mean other than when cooking frogs or lobsters?

 

 

 

 

You might “google” this article headline, “Move Forward Party to Submit 45 Bills for Amendments and New Laws”. Well, any discussion on speed is currently moot as there is no formed government as yet. Currently building the coalition on who, what, when and where.

[bamnutsak]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

You might “google” this article headline, “Move Forward Party to Submit 45 Bills for Amendments and New Laws”.

Yes, I saw this article when it first popped, back in May in the post-orgasmic period after the surprising election results.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/politics/40027743

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1295213-move-forward-party-to-submit-45-bills-for-amendments-and-new-laws/

 

It struck me as a "plan", or a "platform", or a "wish-list". Pretty much what MFP ran on.

 

So forty-five proposed bills was not too fast, or too much too soon, but discussing National Day was a bridge too far?

 

 

 

 

[bamnutsak]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

as a consequence MF should wait until they're securely in power, imo 

MFP will NEVER, EVER be in power, securely or otherwise. They have 151 seats from 750. In 2001 PTP had 248 from 500.

 

 

[proton]

3 hours ago, bannork said:

I agree with Settha here. There's no point in ruffling feathers about something most Thais don't even know about.

Concentrate on real, tangible reforms, don't tinker with trivia.

Right, getting rid of 112 is far more important!

[arithai12]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

But it was OK for the caretaker PM to pull arbitrary regional and national holidays out of his butt in order to "bring happiness to the people".

 

I see.

If you want to bash the caretaker PM go ahead, but please try better. As you (should) know, he (actually his government, I doubt he was choosing dates personally) didn't modify national holidays or introduce new ones permanently, it was done in an effort to revive some domestic travel during Covid times. Like the programs to subsidize hotel costs and such.

[bamnutsak]

2 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

introduce new ones permanently

Well at least one new permanent holiday was added in May 2019 and announced by an advisor, Nattaporn Jatusripital, the Prime Minister.

 

But that was a special circumstance. That holiday was celebrated earlier this month.

 

 

[wwest5829]

53 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Yes, I saw this article when it first popped, back in May in the post-orgasmic period after the surprising election results.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/politics/40027743

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1295213-move-forward-party-to-submit-45-bills-for-amendments-and-new-laws/

 

It struck me as a "plan", or a "platform", or a "wish-list". Pretty much what MFP ran on.

 

So forty-five proposed bills was not too fast, or too much too soon, but discussing National Day was a bridge too far?

 

 

 

 

I focus on the totality as it signals to opposers to start to rally political power in opposition. As the Zen Master said, “we’ll see” ( stolen from the movie “Charlie Wilson’s War).

[Eric Loh]

52 minutes ago, proton said:

Right, getting rid of 112 is far more important!

MFP not advocating for getting rid 112 but for some amendments to prevent the law from being arbitrarily used for political advantage or stifling dissent. 

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, bannork said:

I agree with Settha here. There's no point in ruffling feathers about something most Thais don't even know about.

Concentrate on real, tangible reforms, don't tinker with trivia.

Seems to be the same inconsequential and image-spinning politics as usual. 

The fresh government and coalition have a unique chance to act substantially with policies and reforms that benefit the society and the commons, as they've been harking on from the powerless outside for years. 

 

I trust that these notes of trivia won't be reflective of what their broader intentions and mindsets might be. 

 

[zzaa09]

22 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

MFP not advocating for getting rid 112 but for some amendments to prevent the law from being arbitrarily used for political advantage or stifling dissent. 

Which has been the crux of contemporary times - all too often used as a convenient scapegoat by particular circles.

Yet, 112 [in it's traditional form] hinders the ideals of a free and open democratic state. 

 

There's no grey area or modified positions regarding. 

We either have it on the books or we don't. 

[bannork]

2 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

MFP will NEVER, EVER be in power, securely or otherwise. They have 151 seats from 750. In 2001 PTP had 248 from 500.

 

 

You're including the senators but once the PM is elected, their powers fade regarding the day to day running of parliament. 

And next June their time is up 

Edited June 28, 2023 by bannork

[MartinBangkok]

I agree with member "Bannork": Know when to fight your battles. 

 

MFP should wait on delicate issues until they have warmed up - mabye in a year or two. Then Thailand can dream of having a national day like we have in Norway. Celebrating our 200 year constitution (1814) with children processions the main focus of the day, not military parades.

Edited June 28, 2023 by MartinBangkok
spelling

[Enoon]

 

1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

I agree with member "Bannork": Know when to fight your battles. 

 

MFP should wait on delicate issues until they have warmed up - mabye in a year or two. Then Thailand can dream of having a national day like we have in Norway. Celebrating our 200 year constitution (1814) with children processions the main focus of the day, not military parades.

Imagine the rage that is already felt by the Old Order towards MF.

 

Do not let its show of quiescence fool you.

 

No way does it intend to allow MF to be in the position to do this "maybe in a year or two"

 

No way does it want MF to get anywhere near being able to do that.

 

This just keeps MF "boiling" for those who believe in what it stands for.

 

It knows what it is doing........it knows what is to come.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Enoon

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, bannork said:

I agree with Settha here. There's no point in ruffling feathers about something most Thais don't even know about.

Concentrate on real, tangible reforms, don't tinker with trivia.

Good point well made.

 

20 hours ago, bannork said:

True, but know when to fight your battles. MF are not even the government yet 

Yes, wait until you have the button before you use the nuclear option.

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, arithai12 said:

If you want to bash the caretaker PM go ahead, but please try better. As you (should) know, he (actually his government, I doubt he was choosing dates personally) didn't modify national holidays or introduce new ones permanently, it was done in an effort to revive some domestic travel during Covid times. Like the programs to subsidize hotel costs and such.

Yes, the endless holidays that killed my wife's (and other) restaurant businesses BEFORE Covid in 2016 when punters realized that the benevolent leader's added "happiness holidays" meant they were broke at the end of the month and resorted to 7-eleven's TV dinners and the microwave oven. CP's convenience store expansion really kicked-off in 2016/17 and we all know who's really benefiting from that don't we? No, it's not the mom 'n' pop stores either.

 

He was in charge of his government the goon show so thanks for taking time to highlight his litany of other economic failures like talking-up the droves of Chinese tourists that never really showed up... except the criminal ones with loadsamoney to launder... oops, squander.

 

Sheesh...