Something fishy with th electric bills ?

[moogradod]

 

We have just bought a new house near the Lake Maprachan in Chonburi. We did not move in yet.

 

On the occasional visits we use 2 aircons, one with 36KBTU (Seer around 20) and one with 12KBTU (Seer around 16). There is no fridge running, limited lighting, but the pool pumps are running during the day and will be switched off at night. Currently we rarely visit the house and if, then only for a short time.

 

Even then the electric bill amounts to more than THB 3200 per month. I feel that is quite high for such a limited use of electric energy. Furthermore if I deviate the total amount by the kwh as shown on the bill a rate of more than 5 emerges. But this is a private house. Might there be something wrong with the meter or someone stealing energy from our installation or is this normal ?

 

Does anybody have an idea how to check some shortcomings before we will go in with full load (6 aircons, giant fridge, Home Theatre, 2 UPS for the IT Infrastructure, NAS etc. And all the bulps are conventional. Does as well someone know an easy method how to calculate the ROI if we exchange all for LEDs. Would this probably pay off, althoough I think the lights wont be the big consumer. I would like to go Solar, but I read it is not really recommended in Thailand (expensive Installation (I wil not DIY) and no subsidization resulting in an horrendous Payback Period - and frankly, it does look awful as well)

[Woof999]

4 minutes ago, moogradod said:

And all the bulps are conventional. Does as well someone know an easy method how to calculate the ROI if we exchange all for LEDs.

You don't really need to do the ROI. It's been done by a few hundred million people decades before you.

 

Just the lesser need to replace, along with fewer to zero trips of a circuit breaker make LED the right solution even before (massive) power savings come into play.

[KannikaP]

I have a phone app called ECAS into which I input the main meter reading every morning as I pass it to take the dog for his ablutions. I do the water as well.

I also have a unit in my Consumer Unit (fuse box for us oldies) which sends via Tuya,  total and instant consumption figures to my phone. 

 

[Furioso]

are those single speed pool pumps? If so, that would explain the high elec bill. 

[moogradod]

12 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

You don't really need to do the ROI. It's been done by a few hundred million people decades before you.

 

Just the lesser need to replace, along with fewer to zero trips of a circuit breaker make LED the right solution even before (massive) power savings come into play.

May I take that as a "Yes, I do recommend to exchange to LED" ? I am a bit confused by your answer and do not have the slightest idea what this has to do with a circuit breaker.

[Encid]

I have a Hayward 1.5hp pool pump for filtration/circulation, and another Hayward 1.5hp pool pump for the waterfall (which we rarely use).

 

Each uses 1.1kW per hour of operation, so if you are filtering your pool for 8 hours per day (8am-midday, and 2pm to 6pm) then your daily power consumption will be 8.8kW.

 

Installing a solar system just to power the pool pumps (during daylight hours) is an option you may wish to investigate.

[Woof999]

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

May I take that as a "Yes, I do recommend to exchange to LED" ? I am a bit confused by your answer and do not have the slightest idea what this has to do with a circuit breaker.

Apologies for not being clearer. Yes to LEDs for lots of reasons, power savings being one.

 

If by "conventional" bulbs you mean incandescent (98% heat, 2% light), then they can blow in such a way as to trip many circuit breakers, so you're not just replacing a bulb more often, you're also resetting breakers.

[moogradod]

6 minutes ago, Furioso said:

are those single speed pool pumps? If so, that would explain the high elec bill. 

For sure they are single speed. ???? We find out one by one that a lot of changes are necessary. Like aircons (not strong enough) and maybe all of the windows and doors (a security issue). I will ask the builder. For sure it costs again a fortune to exchange them for "multi-speed". Must be the equivalent of an AC inverter - I have no knowledge about pools and their pumps.

[moogradod]

2 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Apologies for not being clearer. Yes to LEDs for lots of reasons, power savings being one.

 

If by "conventional" bulbs you mean incandescent (98% heat, 2% light), then they can blow in such a way as to trip many circuit breakers, so you're not just replacing a bulb more often, you're also resetting breakers.

Thanks, now I understand.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, moogradod said:

May I take that as a "Yes, I do recommend to exchange to LED" ? I am a bit confused by your answer and do not have the slightest idea what this has to do with a circuit breaker.

Any like you leave on over eight hours a day will pay for itself pretty quick. 

 

If you only use it for an hour a day it will not. 

 

Replace the high use and save the take-out to spare the low-use. 

[moogradod]

16 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I have a phone app called ECAS into which I input the main meter reading every morning as I pass it to take the dog for his ablutions. I do the water as well.

I also have a unit in my Consumer Unit (fuse box for us oldies) which sends via Tuya,  total and instant consumption figures to my phone. 

 

I will have a look at this ECAS. Never heard of Tuya, but changing from a condo to a house brings more with it than I thought. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Yellowtail]

I'd build an enclosure over the pool with solar panels. 

[BenStark]

I also had doubts about my electrical usage, unfounded doubts by the way, so I purchased a couple of these.

 

Put them on the incoming line and a few appliances, so I now know exactly what power everything consumes and also if my meter is correct.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i3425021670-s12662649599.html?

[Crossy]

37 minutes ago, moogradod said:

We have just bought a new house near the Lake Maprachan in Chonburi. We did not move in yet.

 

Are you still on a construction supply? That's going to be double the rate per kWh of a permanent supply.

 

[moogradod]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I'd build an enclosure over the pool with solar panels. 

Thanks for the idea but this might not look very nice. It must be somewhat high in the air, then no sun (which goe into the Solar Cells) as well.

 

We had to extend our kitchen in the back - no idea what the builders concept was to put in a fridge. Thais seem sometime to have a very different concept as far as kitchens are concerned. Our kitchen in the country dependance is nearly 40m2, because we ordered it that way. Now we have a special room for the fridge, 2 washing machines and a dishwasher. As the fridge is in this "enclosure", this "room" must as well be cooled using an AC, but I choose a Daikin with nearly SEER 24.

[moogradod]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Are you still on a construction supply? That's going to be double the rate per kWh of a permanent supply.

 

Yes, they are still building something, but nearly finished. Does this mean they have a different rate ? If yes they might forget to change this to "permanent" once finished. My experience here is that you have to look after every small detail yourself to be sure. But thank you for the information. I did not know that.

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Does this mean they have a different rate ?

 

Yes, a different rate for "construction" supplies, about double the regular rate. 

 

For a permanent supply you need to pass an "inspection", by the authority.

 

IIRC the meter "type" on your bill should tell you what rate you are on. Alternatively, from your total cost and consumption in kWh you should be able to calculate a rough per-unit rate. If it's over about 6Baht per unit you are likely on a construction supply.

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Thanks for the idea but this might not look very nice. It must be somewhat high in the air, then no sun (which goe into the Solar Cells) as well.

Yeah, this is hideous:

6 minutes ago, moogradod said:

 

We had to extend our kitchen in the back - no idea what the builders concept was to put in a fridge. Thais seem sometime to have a very different concept as far as kitchens are concerned. Our kitchen in the country dependance is nearly 40m2, because we ordered it that way. Now we have a special room for the fridge, 2 washing machines and a dishwasher. As the fridge is in this "enclosure", this "room" must as well be cooled using an AC, but I choose a Daikin with nearly SEER 24.

Why does it have to be cooled with AC? 

[KannikaP]

27 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I will have a look at this ECAS. Never heard of Tuya, but changing from a condo to a house brings more with it than I thought. Thanks for the suggestions.

Tuya is an app with which you can control all your wifi bulbs, aircons, 

You can get WiFi controlled light bulbs from Lazada for about Bht 150 each. Set what power & colour and timer you want from your phone. Great

Edited July 2, 2023 by KannikaP

[moogradod]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

........................

Why does it have to be cooled with AC? 

A fridge works on the principle of heat exchange. So if the room in which it is placed is hot then it is more difficult to add some more heat to it, which might result in inferior performance, probably overload, higher electricity bills etc. My Daikin controls as well the air moisture which is as well advantageous to have a smooth fridge operation.

 

And on top comes if my wife is washing it is simply more pleasing in a temperature controlled environment. Therefore an AC.

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

bill a rate of more than 5 emerges. But this is a private house

Over 5 baht a unit is about what it should be with tax/fees added for high usage private house.  My bill in Bangkok last month was 9,121 baht for 1636 units so about 5.57 baht per unit.  Yes we live in house full time but do not have 36,000 btu air conditioners (largest about 13k).  Nor AC the refrigerators (they are designed for Thailand heat).

Edited July 2, 2023 by lopburi3

[moogradod]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Over 5 baht a unit is about what it should be with tax/fees added for high usage private house.  My bill in Bangkok last month was 9,121 baht for 1636 units so about 5.57 baht per unit.  Yes we live in house full time but do not have 36,000 btu air conditioners (largest about 13k).  

Our electricity CONDO bill was a bit more than 11000 THB last month. And it is but a 150m2 condo. But this might have been because of the extensive use of AC. Has never been that high, normal was 7000 or even below 6000 in the past.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Our electricity CONDO bill was a bit more than 11000 THB last month. And it is but a 150m2 condo. But this might have been because of the extensive use of AC. Has never been that high, normal was 7000 or even below 6000 in the past.

It has been an extremely hot year - normally have rains to cool things down from April on but not this year (few rains but most days sun).  Suspect you also run temps in the low 20's rather than the 27c that most of us find pleasant when not working and normal sea breeze not make up for AC most days this year.

[moogradod]

23 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yes, a different rate for "construction" supplies, about double the regular rate. 

 

For a permanent supply you need to pass an "inspection", by the authority.

 

IIRC the meter "type" on your bill should tell you what rate you are on. Alternatively, from your total cost and consumption in kWh you should be able to calculate a rough per-unit rate. If it's over about 6Baht per unit you are likely on a construction supply.

Something wrong here, but no surpize. They sold the house already to us not knowing what kind of modifications we would order after that. So I suppose this "inspection" has already taken place. I will talk to the seller which is the builder as well (as far as I understand that, this guy works with a lot of subcontractors - one for the blinds, one for the kitchen and cabinets, one for the ACs etc.) We then found out that my stepdaughter is allergic to grass. So we had to change the whole lawn to artificial grass - which was a superb idea in the end - no more maintenance at all - and it looks really good.

 

The only drawback is that the overall cost rises and rises, but nobody does complain, it is a really nice and brandnew house equipped with top notch fixtures (exept for the ACs unfortunately).

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

I have a phone app called ECAS into which I input the main meter reading every morning as I pass it to take the dog for his ablutions. I do the water as well.

...........................

ECAS ? I guess you do not mean the "Fisheries Catch Assessment Survey Data Collection Tool" which is provided by PlayStore. Or maybe the "Electronic Course Authorization System" ? I use an Android phone. Do you have maybe a link to the correct app ? There are many ECAS out there. Try to use ECAS as a search term - you will be surprized. Thanks.

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

For sure they are single speed. ???? We find out one by one that a lot of changes are necessary. Like aircons (not strong enough) and maybe all of the windows and doors (a security issue). I will ask the builder. For sure it costs again a fortune to exchange them for "multi-speed". Must be the equivalent of an AC inverter - I have no knowledge about pools and their pumps.

Variable speed pump cost me about (Emaux) 45,000 baht from Ali Baba.  It cut pump electricity by half, running 390-400 watts an hour. Swimming Pools Thailand has them.  Good warranty, Bangkok repair if needed. 

 

https://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/191-variable-speed-pumps

 

 

I also added a Tuya Smart Plug from Lazada To check the electricity usage. 

 

Next house, gated with a community pool.  Pools are just expensive and a chore in my opinion.  Great now with young kids though.

 

 

 

[john donson]

2 hours ago, moogradod said:

We have just bought a new house near the Lake Maprachan in Chonburi. We did not move in yet.

 

On the occasional visits we use 2 aircons, one with 36KBTU (Seer around 20) and one with 12KBTU (Seer around 16). There is no fridge running, limited lighting, but the pool pumps are running during the day and will be switched off at night. Currently we rarely visit the house and if, then only for a short time.

 

Even then the electric bill amounts to more than THB 3200 per month. I feel that is quite high for such a limited use of electric energy. Furthermore if I deviate the total amount by the kwh as shown on the bill a rate of more than 5 emerges. But this is a private house. Might there be something wrong with the meter or someone stealing energy from our installation or is this normal ?

 

Does anybody have an idea how to check some shortcomings before we will go in with full load (6 aircons, giant fridge, Home Theatre, 2 UPS for the IT Infrastructure, NAS etc. And all the bulps are conventional. Does as well someone know an easy method how to calculate the ROI if we exchange all for LEDs. Would this probably pay off, althoough I think the lights wont be the big consumer. I would like to go Solar, but I read it is not really recommended in Thailand (expensive Installation (I wil not DIY) and no subsidization resulting in an horrendous Payback Period - and frankly, it does look awful as well)

I had a renter once, complaining about electricity leakage

 

but when I passed the house, 2 big aircons were on almost 24/7

 

the next renter had a bill 4x less, but they hardly used the airco...

 

 

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, moogradod said:

Even then the electric bill amounts to more than THB 3200 per month. I feel that is quite high for such a limited use of electric energy. Furthermore if I deviate the total amount by the kwh as shown on the bill a rate of more than 5 emerges. But this is a private house.

We live in a private house too, last months bill produced an all up rate of just over 5 Baht per unit, it's about as high a unit cost as I've seen. Your rate appears OK but you need to check if someone has piggy backed onto your electrical system (it happens quite a lot out here in my experience especially if you are not living in the house) PEA can easily check.

For usage we are 4 occupants with 2 fridges, 1 chest freezer, an average of say 4 fans running 24/7, 2 laptops and 2 TV's running probably 14/15 hours a day, plus lights as required for 7 rooms + 3 toilets, 2 water pumps (1 for a deep well filling a storage tank and 1 maintaining pressure in the house) also various cooking appliances 2500/3000 Baht per month at current time.

[JensenZ]

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

Even then the electric bill amounts to more than THB 3200 per month. I feel that is quite high for such a limited use of electric energy. Furthermore if I deviate the total amount by the kwh as shown on the bill a rate of more than 5 emerges. But this is a private house. Might there be something wrong with the meter or someone stealing energy from our installation or is this normal ?

There's nothing fishy about 5 "emerges", assuming that's 5 baht per KWh. My last 3 bills average out to 5.33 baht per KWh when including tax and surcharges, with bills averaging 572 KWh consumption. If you're already complaining about your consumption before you move in I would suggest you don't turn on the 36 BTU air con units. I have some big units in my lounge area, but I never turn them on.

Edited July 2, 2023 by JensenZ

[eisfeld]

The official normal residential rate from PEA for installations consuming over 150kWh per month is as follows:

 

First 150 kWh (0 – 150th)      3.2484
Next  250 kWh (151st – 400th)  4.2218
Over  400 kWh (401st and over) 4.4217

 

Then you need to add FT (fuel charge) which on my recent bill was 0.9119 Baht per unit. Add also a fixed service charge of 24.62 baht. And to the sum of those you add the VAT of 7%.

 

Example calculation if you consume 700kWh: (150*3.2484 + 250*4.2218 + 300*4.4217 + 24.62 + 700*0.9119) * 1.07 = 3,779.42 Baht which gives an average of roughly 5.4 Baht per unit.

 

This is "Schedule 1 Residential" - "1.1 Normal Rate" in the linked PDF.

 

https://www.pea.co.th/Portals/1/Knowledge PEA/Electricity Tariffs JAN66 Unofficial Translation.pdf?ver=2023-01-27-133655-423

 

The construction tariff that Crossy mentioned earlier is the "Schedule 8 Temporary Service" tariff which has a fixed 6.8025 Baht per unit price. To that you add the 0.9119 FT and 7% VAT so really it's 8.25 Baht per kWh.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by eisfeld