British student’s harrowing balcony plunge leaves him fighting for life in a Thailand hospital

[kwilco]

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I did, my "railings" are 93cm, which exceeds the 90cm Thailand code, as well as the 91.5cm code in some US states. 

 

Have you measured yours?

 

 

Apparently low railing are a problem in the US too.

Yes, falls from balconies where the rails are too low are common in the USA. According to a study by the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS), there were an estimated 20,000 falls  2019.

 1,500 resulted in serious injuries.

Thry found that the most common cause of falls was people leaning over the railing to get a better view.

Other causes included people sitting or standing on the railing, people jumping from one balcony to another, and people being pushed or pulled over the railing.

All of this is less likely with higher railings.

 

 

The study also found that the risk was highest amongst young adults, people who were intoxicated, and people who were not familiar with the balcony.

 

risks are increased if  balconies aren't clear of furniture and other objects that could be used to climb over the railing or raise the CoG of a person

US recommends extra rails in the balconies are high above the ground.

Of course little of this applies in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, kwilco said:

a selfie accident could occur from a slippery floor - the problem being the centre of gravity on a lower rail is all wrong and the person is more likely to topple over the rail.

I was reffering to selfie attemots while actually sitting atop a balcony railing, which is clearly reckless.

 

It does also sometimes happen  that a person leans much too far back against a fairly low (relative to their height) balcony rail.  Or  puts too much weight against a  railing not strong or secured enough to hold it. 

 

While these things could happen sober they are far more likely inebriated. 

 

And then there are the balcony "falls" that are not falls at all. Druggdd person who thinks they can fly.  Ill-advised attempt to dive into a pool below.  Suicide attempt etc. 

[kwilco]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I was reffering to selfie attemots while actually sitting atop a balcony railing, which is clearly reckless.

If the rail is higher it's less likely that people will be able to sit on it.

As previously said safety concerns should take into account inebriation - especially in holiday accommodation.

Not reckless in most cases - What you are looking at is not wildly aberrant behaviour but the normal range of human error- this is why in Europe they have a higher minimum level. 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It does also sometimes happen  that a person leans much too far back against a fairly low (relative to their height) balcony rail.  Or  puts too much weight against a  railing not strong or secured enough to hold it. 

I once visited a friend in Pattaya many moons ago. His apartment was on a really high floor, 20+ or something like that. I'm not exaggerating when I say the balcony rail was knee high. Crazy, just crazy. How does something like that get past the drawing board (rhet).

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

...and the sizes are within regulations?

TIT...
But my balconies are indeed safe...

[kwilco]

39 minutes ago, khunPer said:

TIT...
But my balconies are indeed safe...

I'm sure that's what every hotelier would say too

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I once visited a friend in Pattaya many moons ago. His apartment was on a really high floor, 20+ or something like that. I'm not exaggerating when I say the balcony rail was knee high. Crazy, just crazy. How does something like that get past the drawing board (rhet).

no one looks at the drawing board.....it also makes you wonder about the architect.

[wealthychef]

18 hours ago, CecilM said:

The smaller doors I have only (painfully) encountered at bathrooms. Not yet elsewhere. Since this “low railing” is a regularly coming thread I have been thinking about it for a while. No, I can’t remember any such things from CM or CR. Of course I am in now way discrediting others’ experiences, I am just sharing mine. 

Probably over time the lower railings are being replaced?  I don't know.  This is something I noticed literally the first week I was in Thailand, which I spend in Pattaya by the way.  I think this tends to be on older buildings.  I've seen it in a fancy condo on Soi 8, specifically, and in a hotel near Walking Street Pattaya, those are the only clear memories I have but since it's scary I remember them.  ????

[wealthychef]

15 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

So if he comes out of it we will finally have someone to explain HOW they fell off a balcony in LOS?????....

That would be awesome!  I also have never heard a single clear description of someone falling off a balcony;  the stories are always "we heard a crash and there he was on the ground."  I can see how it would happen, but always wonder, like we all do -- is this a rash of suicides as claimed or is there a band of mobsters throwing people off balconies?  

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

I don't have a balcony in Thailand.

In Europe its 1.1

What is your point?

When did you last measure your European balcony?  

[thailand49]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:20 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Take great care agreeing with me in writing, some members will put you on their "Ignore" list for that crime!

Appreciate the advice but I can take care of myself I'm sure I'm on many ignore list but it isnt my lost.

We don't always have to agree but if one wants to dish it out should be able to take it in return which is lacking with many here. 

Many might not agree with you I've had a few but what you have is integrity to say what you believe right or wrong disk it out and take it in return. That comes from your orgin LOL

 

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

When did you last measure your European balcony?  

Do you think it's changed?

[Yellowtail]

56 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Do you think it's changed?

Yes

[khunPer]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm sure that's what every hotelier would say too

You might be sure, but you have no proof for your various statements, only your own speculations...????
My balcony railings are by the way 90 cm high on 2nd floor and 1 meter high on 3rd floor...

[Sticky Rice Balls]

9 hours ago, wealthychef said:

That would be awesome!  I also have never heard a single clear description of someone falling off a balcony;  the stories are always "we heard a crash and there he was on the ground."  I can see how it would happen, but always wonder, like we all do -- is this a rash of suicides as claimed or is there a band of mobsters throwing people off balconies?  

i have a balcony and here I am....i certainly dont get to close to sketchy ones or lean on them

 

But def curious to hear a survivor explain this ongoing issue in LOS...maybe the bad guys will try to pull the plug as dead men tell no tales!

[Yellowtail]

Does anyone even go out on a hotel balcony when they're not drunk?

[condo62]

Post ConVid I think travel insurance companies are looking at every loophole to get out of paying up....????

[kwilco]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:18 AM, khunPer said:

You might be sure, but you have no proof for your various statements, only your own speculations...????
My balcony railings are by the way 90 cm high on 2nd floor and 1 meter high on 3rd floor...

you don't know how to make a reasoned argument, do you?

[SiSePuede419]

British people who can't afford apartments with balconies back home and obviously don't know how to walk around on a balcony (HINT: NOT BLOODY DRUNK OR DRUGGED OUT) probably shouldn't go out on the balcony in Thailand, unless it's on the ground floor you knobs.

 

 

 It's only common sense. ????

[GammaGlobulin]

On 7/6/2023 at 5:11 AM, kwilco said:

there needs to be a serious revue of balcony designs in Thailand - the rails are dangerously low especially for Westerners who are generally taller than Thai people.

Westerners are also more likely to be top-heavy, compared to Thai people.

When you fixate on gaining upper-body mass, as many do, then low balconies become more risky.

 

"According to the International Residential Code, balconies in commercial buildings should have a height of 42 inches before being capped off with a sturdy handrail."

 

"As for the residential buildings, they specified the railing height as 36 inches from the deck level. Ideally, railing slats should have 4 inches or less gap between them to prevent kids and pets from slipping between them." (codes.iccsafe.org)

 

But what about Thailand?

"Balconies must have railings that are at least 90 centimeters (35 inches) high, and that are spaced no more than 10 centimeters (4 inches) apart." (Quora)

 

I recall that in Chiang Mai, the balconies that I have stood upon seemed to be around one meter off the deck of the balcony.

 

However, I think that is too low for the sake of safety, drunk or otherwise.

 

I would definitely like to see a minimum height of 42 inches.

 

If I were building or renovating a condo with a balcony above the first floor, then I would go for 1.5 meters with a wide wooden railing at the top.

 

For sure, if one is 180 centimeters in height, and muscular, then a one-meter balcony railing is too low!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kwilco]

23 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Westerners are also more likely to be top-heavy, compared to Thai people.

When you fixate on gaining upper-body mass, as many do, then low balconies become more risky.

 

"According to the International Residential Code, balconies in commercial buildings should have a height of 42 inches before being capped off with a sturdy handrail."

 

"As for the residential buildings, they specified the railing height as 36 inches from the deck level. Ideally, railing slats should have 4 inches or less gap between them to prevent kids and pets from slipping between them." (codes.iccsafe.org)

 

But what about Thailand?

"Balconies must have railings that are at least 90 centimeters (35 inches) high, and that are spaced no more than 10 centimeters (4 inches) apart." (Quora)

 

I recall that in Chiang Mai, the balconies that I have stood upon seemed to be around one meter off the deck of the balcony.

 

However, I think that is too low for the sake of safety, drunk or otherwise.

 

I would definitely like to see a minimum height of 42 inches.

 

If I were building or renovating a condo with a balcony above the first floor, then I would go for 1.5 meters with a wide wooden railing at the top.

 

For sure, if one is 180 centimeters in height, and muscular, then a one-meter balcony railing is too low!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the UK my apartment has a balcony rail that is 115 cm. On my house in Chonburi there is a roof patio -  the balustrade there is about 60 cm - it's convenient to sit on!!! My rental on SAmui had one small balcony/shelf - that was about 90cm.

 

But

 

the problem with balconies is the human centre of gravity - this varies very little - it is about one inch below the navel - regardless of the person's total height. THis is usually under halfway up the body which means once tilted over the balcony rail the prime force is to topple over the top.

THe floor of the balcony is also important so that people don't slip. Either their feet from under them when leaning back or if they slide forward onto the rail.

Whatever - the THai specifications are definitely too low even for relatively short people

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

12 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Westerners are also more likely to be top-heavy, compared to Thai people.

In that their CoG cold be higher from the floor

[Harsh Jones]

On 7/5/2023 at 5:38 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed..... 

.... Perhaps the insurance has a 'no-balconies' clause...  _(sarcasm)

 

IF the family are unclear of the circumstances of the fall, how can the insurance possibly refuse the claim - do they know something the family don't ???

 

It would be interesting to learn why the Travel Insurance company refused the claim (and who this company is).... Was it a 'booze clause' ?...   and if so, does that mean 100% no booze or reasonable amounts etc ?

 

 

Obviously the insurance company has some fine print that excludes alcohol, horseplay and general stupidity.  

[Harsh Jones]

On 7/5/2023 at 4:11 PM, kwilco said:

there needs to be a serious revue of balcony designs in Thailand - the rails are dangerously low especially for Westerners who are generally taller than Thai people.

This is a myth. There's no data to back it up. 

[Harsh Jones]

Just by reading through this thread, it is clear that some ppl don't have the slightest idea what young ppl get up to on balconies. The balcony is a source of danger, so idiots show-boat on them. They piss off of them, get in fights on them. They sit on the rail and smoke.  They jump from them if there's a close enough pool.

 

Then there's the increased popularity of Parklour. Ppl jump or climb to other balconies. 

 

Parkour (French: [paʁkuʁ]) is an athletic training discipline or sport in which practitioners (called traceurs) attempt to get from point A to point B in the fastest and most efficient way possible, without assisting equipment and often while performing flips.^[ includes flipping, running, climbing, swinging, vaulting, jumping, plyometrics, rolling, and quadrupedal movement—whatever is suitable for a given situation.^[6][7] Parkour is an activity that can be practiced alone or with others, and is usually carried out in urban spaces, 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

This is a myth. There's no data to back it up. 

Fact is the regs in Thailand specify 90 whereas in the West 1.1 to 1 5 what is your myth?

Have you measured your Thai balcony?

Edited July 20, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

what young ppl get up to on balconies

Most of those who fall are older people.

I think you are not up to speed on any aspect of this topic 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:45 AM, kwilco said:

health and safety at hotels resorts and other tourist attractions in Thailand is deplorable.

I stayed in many places over decades, visited many tourist attractions, and in general your contention is not correct, IMO.

Indeed, some were deficient, but not the majority.

 

I did not stay in places over 1,000 baht normally.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:04 AM, kwilco said:

In the UK my apartment has a balcony rail that is 115 cm. On my house in Chonburi there is a roof patio -  the balustrade there is about 60 cm - it's convenient to sit on!!! My rental on SAmui had one small balcony/shelf - that was about 90cm.

The topic isn't about balconies in the UK. Thais are under no obligation to cater for farang heights.

In Thailand people are expected to have responsibilities for their own actions- it's not a nanny state like the west ( thank goodness ).

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/12/2023 at 1:17 PM, SiSePuede419 said:

British people who can't afford apartments with balconies back home and obviously don't know how to walk around on a balcony (HINT: NOT BLOODY DRUNK OR DRUGGED OUT) probably shouldn't go out on the balcony in Thailand, unless it's on the ground floor you knobs.

 

 

 It's only common sense. ????

Perhaps the problem isn't balcony heights in LOS, but the drunken yobs that have no common sense.

If they banned those that are likely to get drunk and fall off buildings from entry, it would make for a better experience in LOS, IMO.