Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

[scottiejohn]

34 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Trolling with credible sources?

Did you ever bother to read the conclusion of the last source you quoted?

I'll post it for you with my emphasis added; 

"In conclusion, thus, there is evidence that Russia may have caused a portion of the refugee flow towards Europe, and was happy to exploit this for propaganda purposes. However, it was at most a side effect of their ‘normal’ approach to the kind of destructive war they have also waged previously, not a central element of their campaign, and not a key driver of the migration crisis, which was well underway when Russia jumped in, and in fact diminished in months to come despite the brutal campaign continuing unabated."

 

The above conclusion quoted in full does not quite meet the standard of proof required to back up your Russian conspiracy theories does it?

[Kwasaki]

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When was Kiev the capital of the USSR?

Why do you want a history lesson from me. ?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Why do you want a history lesson from me. ?

Kiev was never the capital of the soviet union.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It is just a war of territory. The soviet union once ruled Ukraine and Putin wants to retrive it back in order to establish his legacy. Moreover, Putin realises his country's reliance on fossil fuels make the Russian economy toast in the face of long term demand destruction. Russia needs Ukrainian land and resources to grow it's economy. It's that simple.

Well done, refusing to read anything of sources provided 

 

Russia Is Taking Advantage of the Invasion-Stirred Migration Crisis

 

By creating migration waves that will destabilize Europe, Putin is harming the continent without directly using military force against countries outside Ukraine. As ever, Putin is happy to generate chaos that will hurt others—and to take advantage of it for Russia

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Why do you want a history lesson from me. ?

It would be a lesson about an alternative universe because Kiev was never the capital of the USSR.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Hummin said:

Well done, refusing to read anything of sources provided 

 

Russia Is Taking Advantage of the Invasion-Stirred Migration Crisis

 

By creating migration waves that will destabilize Europe, Putin is harming the continent without directly using military force against countries outside Ukraine. As ever, Putin is happy to generate chaos that will hurt others—and to take advantage of it for Russia

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/

You yourself now admit that a refugee crisis is a by product of the war and not the causus belli. I want to hear you use the words "middle eastern refugees" in the context of Ukraine again. You seem to have dodged that part of your claim.

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Kiev was never the capital of the soviet union.

Oh dear !

 

OKyiv was the historical capital of medieval Kievan Rus' from 879 to 1240, and is now the largest city and the capital of Ukraine.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Oh dear !

 

OKyiv was the historical capital of medieval Kievan Rus' from 879 to 1240, and is now the largest city and the capital of Ukraine.

Oops! Did the soviet union exist in 1240?

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It would be a lesson about an alternative universe because Kiev was never the capital of the USSR.

The city is still considered a sacred place for all Orthodox Christians in Russia and Ukraine. It was also the first capital of the Russian State, which at that time was known as Kiev Russ. From Kiev you move to magnificent Moscow, the present capital of Russia and its business and culture centre 

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Well done, refusing to read anything of sources provided 

 

Russia Is Taking Advantage of the Invasion-Stirred Migration Crisis

 

By creating migration waves that will destabilize Europe, Putin is harming the continent without directly using military force against countries outside Ukraine. As ever, Putin is happy to generate chaos that will hurt others—and to take advantage of it for Russia

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/

If you disagree with your critics here you will be vilified. ????

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Oh dear !

 

OKyiv was the historical capital of medieval Kievan Rus' from 879 to 1240, and is now the largest city and the capital of Ukraine.

That doesn't exactly support your case that Kiev was the capital of the USSR. Kievan Rus at its largest was only a fraction of the size of the USSR.

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You yourself now admit that a refugee crisis is a by product of the war and not the causus belli. I want to hear you use the words "middle eastern refugees" in the context of Ukraine again. You seem to have dodged that part of your claim.

Go back and reread whats posted and qouted. 

 

I never had a problem to admit Im wrong, and have several times do e so on this fora! Others never ever admit they have been wrong and continue to the bitter end and the topic is closed or cleaned .

 

Sad, really

Edited July 12, 2023 by Hummin

[Hummin]

17 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If you disagree with your critics here you will be vilified. ????

They dissagree with me and my sources and twist my opinion as it fits them while they are sinking in to their flaws of own retoric and understanding of the reality ????

 

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Hummin said:

They dissagree with me and my sources and twist my opinion as it fits them while they are sinking in to their flaws of own retoric and understanding of the reality ????

 

 

The trick is to make sure your sources actually support your opinion.

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

They dissagree with me and my sources and twist my opinion as it fits them while they are sinking in to their flaws of own retoric and understanding of the reality ????

Yeah I find saying something neutral to there stance and stalkers prevail. ????

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The trick is to make sure your sources actually support your opinion.

That's funny. ????

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The trick is to make sure your sources actually support your opinion.

If you read carefully you find the gold in the sources, but you decided I was wrong from the very beginning! Stoubbern as expected to be here at the forum trying to save their own pride.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That's funny. ????

I don't have a sense of humour that I'm aware of.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

If you read carefully you find the gold in the sources, but you decided I was wrong from the very beginning! Stoubbern as expected to be here at the forum trying to save their own pride.

All I saw was irrelevant stuff like the definition of the term "refugee weaponisation". What I wanted to see but could not find was any credible evidence that the war was

 

1. Started as a pretext to create a refugee crisis to destabilise Europe. Not that it was a by product but started with that motive uppermost as you claimed.

 

2. That any of the refugees were of middle eastern origin other than those in Ukraine before the war.

 

3. That there was any connection between the middle east and the war in Ukraine as a pretext for starting the war..

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

If you read carefully you find the gold in the sources, but you decided I was wrong from the very beginning! Stoubbern as expected to be here at the forum trying to save their own pride.

Projecting much?

[RanongCat]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Why don't you ignore my thoughts and opinions I refer to NATO no-one else.

In propaganda war the ones on the side of biggest bestest media not want to think too far because is safer to agree with. Many ways to be honest sceptic of Nato intention.

If Russia was accepted  at time it  asked for then under rules of Nato Russia would be now neutralize. Refused because Nato need Russia as enemy to keep war machine soak in oil !

 

[Kwasaki]

51 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I don't have a sense of humour that I'm aware of.

There's opinions that are valid by people who don't agree with you.

 

One of my opinions now is Ukraine is wrong attacking now they should hold  line and wait for the F16 support.

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, RanongCat said:

In propaganda war the ones on the side of biggest bestest media not want to think too far because is safer to agree with. Many ways to be honest sceptic of Nato intention.

If Russia was accepted  at time it  asked for then under rules of Nato Russia would be now neutralize. Refused because Nato need Russia as enemy to keep war machine soak in oil !

 

That's strong criticism of NATO if I understand where your coming from.

[steven100]

4 hours ago, Summerinsiam said:

Zelenskey should understand that there are limits to what support can be offered,

fine ......   so if Zelenskey decided to pack up and let Russia have Ukraine that would be ok for NATO, the EU and the US ?    oh'   if I remember correctly wasn't it the Budapest Nuclear agreement that Ukraine, the US, Russia and the UK signed in 1994 where In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security. 

How did that honest agreement work out for Ukraine  ??      I expect Zelenskey wouldn't trust one work from any of their dishonest mouths.  

 

Europe is using Ukraine as a block to stop Russia advancing further west ....  let Russia have Ukraine  !    then see if NATO and the other sit back and watch ......      probably start shaking in their boots. 

 

Not one of those speakers at the Summit could hold a candle to Zelenskey,  they're weak as p_ss ..     that's just my opinion ....   and I suspect alot of others would agree ....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by steven100

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

fine ......   so if Zelenskey decided to pack up and let Russia have Ukraine that would be ok for NATO, the EU and the US ?    oh'   if I remember correctly wasn't it the Budapest Nuclear agreement that Ukraine, the US, Russia and the UK signed in 1994 where In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security. 

How did that honest agreement work out for Ukraine  ??      I expect Zelenskey wouldn't trust one work from any of their dishonest mouths.  

 

Europe is using Ukraine as a block to stop Russia advancing further west ....  let Russia have Ukraine  !    then see if NATO and the other sit back and watch ......      probably start shaking in their boots. 

 

Not one of those speakers at the Summit could hold a candle to Zelenskey,  they're weal as p_ss   imo.

I think most see understandable Zelenskes impatient stance, he needs more statgegty support and should wait for air power support.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, steven100 said:

fine ......   so if Zelenskey decided to pack up and let Russia have Ukraine that would be ok for NATO, the EU and the US ?   

I think Zelensky is doing a great job, but I didn't know that he was singlehandedly battling the Russians. Does he wear a cape when he's fighting?

[steven100]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think most see understandable Zelenskes impatient stance, he needs more statgegty support and should wait for air power support.

agree .....  they'  NATO, EU and the US shouldn't  drag their feet as they do most of the time,   remember every day is costing Ukraine lives .... they should step up to the plate also.

[novacova]

Ukraine will never be a member of NATO as long as the current autocratic kleptocratic government of Russia exists, at least not during the lifetime of anyone here. So stop the pipe dreaming, it’s useless.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

agree .....  they'  NATO, EU and the US shouldn't  drag their feet as they do most of the time,   remember every day is costing Ukraine lives .... they should step up to the plate also.

Yeah I am so annoyed at America and Nato countries still not doing enough whether it be advice or munitions supplies.

[steven100]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I am so annoyed at America and Nato countries still not doing enough whether it be advice or munitions supplies.

and remember,  not even half of what was promised have been delivered ..