which tile adhesive?

[gejohesch]

I'm about to embark tiling an outdoor (but covered) surface in my wife's place, about 40-50 square metres. I've got the tiles already, they are 45 x 45 cm (8 by 8 inches). I'm hesitant when I see the range of tile adhesive (thin set / mortar) available in Home Pro. Just looking at the "Crocodile" brand, it starts at 135 baht the bag of 20 kg (Yellow), then goes on to 160 baht for Blue, 198 baht for green and so on. The shop attendant said the yellow brand (the cheapest) is good enough for me with such tiles, but I prefer to double check : anyone with good advice on that?

 

I never put tiles on a surface, I mean on the ground. My only experience is with tiles (30 x 30 cm) on a wall, that worked very well. It takes a bit of trial and error but after a dozen tiles or so, I felt more comfortable. Also, putting in the joint mortar later on was straightforward enough. I invested in a tile cutter, that also worked very well.

 

On the basis of that experience, I decided to tile up that outdoor surface I mentioned above (it's a covered kitchen area) but this time it's on the ground. The ground was not horizontal, far from it, therefore I am in the process of levelling it up (before setting the tiles on it). That I find is a lot of work and a bit tricky, but I'm more than half the way through I think.

 

One may ask why I'm not getting all that work done by local workers. The thing is, I have multiple examples in my wife's place of doors, windows, walls etc not being straight, not being vertical, nor horizontal, nor parallel nor at square angles. Thai workers seem to have a rather dim understanding of basic geometry..... Therefore, I prefer to do the job myself. Yes, it's much slower, but I have plenty of time and at least I know what I'm doing (to a point, hahaha!).

 

Again, any words of wisdom on the subject of the tile adhesive, and any other stuff relates to tiling, will be most appreciated!

[brianthainess]

Thai builders seem to just use cement with no problems. just saying.

[transam]

Tilers in LOS are usually pretty good, can't say I have ever seen a bad job on exterior tiles, plus it doesn't cost a lot, perhaps 100bht per square meter to lay, you pay for the materials.

If you are doing it yourself, the bagged powder tile mix is the way to go, it has adhesive in the mix, though a tiler may just use cement, it's cheaper....????

[jvs]

If you have to raise the level it is best to use cement and put the tiles in the wet cement.

 

[cjinchiangrai]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

Thai builders seem to just use cement with no problems. just saying.

And I have seen a lot of spalling like this. For cement mix you MUST use the acrylic addmix. The premade crocodile stuff is much better. Leave joint gaps so the grout will do it's job. Plastic spacers really help at this.

[brianthainess]

42 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

And I have seen a lot of spalling like this. For cement mix you MUST use the acrylic addmix. The premade crocodile stuff is much better. Leave joint gaps so the grout will do it's job. Plastic spacers really help at this.

No spacers were used on mine, and just normal cement, guess I was lucky, to get a good tiler, prefect job over 100sq mt. 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by brianthainess

[transam]

11 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

No spacers were used on mine, and just normal cement, guess I was lucky, to get a good tiler, prefect job over 100sq mt. 

 

They don't look like ceramic tiles.............?  ????

[Yellowtail]

I used the Crocodile green and it worked great. Make sure your surface is flat, read the directions, and mix only what you will use before it starts going off. Once it starts going off, throw it away. 

 

Their website explains the different colors and when to use what: 

Tile Adhesive | Jorakay Corporation

 

Watch a few you-tube videos on setting tiles before you start. 

 

How are you leveling/flattening the slab? 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Yellowtail
clarity

[circa02]

Deleted.. will open another thread about grout instead rather than hijack this one about adhesive.

Edited September 1, 2023 by circa02

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, circa02 said:

Deleted.. will open another thread about grout instead rather than hijack this one about adhesive.

Tile Grout | Jorakay Corporation

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

And I have seen a lot of spalling like this. For cement mix you MUST use the acrylic addmix. The premade crocodile stuff is much better. Leave joint gaps so the grout will do it's job. Plastic spacers really help at this.

Yes thanks, indeed I use plastic spacers, I really don't see why I should not, it's cheap enough. Saying that because I've seen the local handymen using matchsticks.....

 

As a reply to the ones who contributed above (thanks to them again!), I remember seeing a woman laying down tiles in Phairath, big shop close to the airport in Khon Kaen, and she was very impressive, so yes of course there are excellent tilers I'm sure in Thailand - that's just not what I've seen done in the village.....

 

Also, all these comments about using cement.... maybe, but there must be a good reason why special tile mortar is made, and I have seen enough not to automatically take the "Thai way of doing things" as an example to follow!

[jvs]

26 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

Also, all these comments about using cement.... maybe, but there must be a good reason why special tile mortar is made, and I have seen enough not to automatically take the "Thai way of doing things" as an example to follow!

All of the tiles in my house about 180sq meters was put in only with cement.

Perfect job .

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I used the Crocodile green and it worked great. Make sure your surface is flat, read the directions, and mix only what you will use before it starts going off. Once it starts going off, throw it away. 

 

Their website explains the different colors and when to use what: 

Tile Adhesive | Jorakay Corporation

 

Watch a few you-tube videos on setting tiles before you start. 

 

How are you leveling/flattening the slab? 

 

See the pic showing how I'm leveling the ground. I'm sure the "pros" will have a lot to say about my "method" but here I am, I'm not a pro. As the surface is quite large, I built a series a ridges to the desired level and then filled in between. Where deep enough, I used blocks, red bricks and gross gravel to fill in as much space as possible before pouring in the mortar made from cement + sand + finer gravel.

 

I know one could set up wooden planks by the sides to the desired level, but the ground was already hard cement so I could not do that.

 

I've checked the link to the "Crocodile" brand, very useful, thanks!

[OneMoreFarang]

Crocodile brand sounds alright. The different "colors" are for different situation, not quality differences. Look at the labels and maybe translate them.

 

Bigger tiles are bigger headache. You should use a tiling system, something like this:

 

I suggest watch a couple of videos from this guy, he seems to know what he is talking about.

Sal DiBlasi - YouTube

 

And, in my personal opinion, use non-slip tiles.

 

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

See the pic showing how I'm leveling the ground. I'm sure the "pros" will have a lot to say about my "method" but here I am, I'm not a pro. As the surface is quite large, I built a series a ridges to the desired level and then filled in between. Where deep enough, I used blocks, red bricks and gross gravel to fill in as much space as possible before pouring in the mortar made from cement + sand + finer gravel.

 

I know one could set up wooden planks by the sides to the desired level, but the ground was already hard cement so I could not do that.

 

I've checked the link to the "Crocodile" brand, very useful, thanks!

Does your wife own it? If you can get concrete delivered, I would throw some wire down and dump 75mm on top of it and screed it off. 

[steve187]

25 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

See the pic showing how I'm leveling the ground. I'm sure the "pros" will have a lot to say about my "method" but here I am, I'm not a pro. As the surface is quite large, I built a series a ridges to the desired level and then filled in between. Where deep enough, I used blocks, red bricks and gross gravel to fill in as much space as possible before pouring in the mortar made from cement + sand + finer gravel.

 

I know one could set up wooden planks by the sides to the desired level, but the ground was already hard cement so I could not do that.

 

I've checked the link to the "Crocodile" brand, very useful, thanks!

if that's the finished floor ready for tiles, you are not going to get a good finish with thin bed adhesive, 

[TimeMachine]

5 hours ago, gejohesch said:

I'm about to embark tiling an outdoor (but covered) surface in my wife's place, about 40-50 square metres. I've got the tiles already, they are 45 x 45 cm (8 by 8 inches). I'm hesitant when I see the range of tile adhesive (thin set / mortar) available in Home Pro. Just looking at the "Crocodile" brand, it starts at 135 baht the bag of 20 kg (Yellow), then goes on to 160 baht for Blue, 198 baht for green and so on. The shop attendant said the yellow brand (the cheapest) is good enough for me with such tiles, but I prefer to double check : anyone with good advice on that?

 

I never put tiles on a surface, I mean on the ground. My only experience is with tiles (30 x 30 cm) on a wall, that worked very well. It takes a bit of trial and error but after a dozen tiles or so, I felt more comfortable. Also, putting in the joint mortar later on was straightforward enough. I invested in a tile cutter, that also worked very well.

 

On the basis of that experience, I decided to tile up that outdoor surface I mentioned above (it's a covered kitchen area) but this time it's on the ground. The ground was not horizontal, far from it, therefore I am in the process of levelling it up (before setting the tiles on it). That I find is a lot of work and a bit tricky, but I'm more than half the way through I think.

 

One may ask why I'm not getting all that work done by local workers. The thing is, I have multiple examples in my wife's place of doors, windows, walls etc not being straight, not being vertical, nor horizontal, nor parallel nor at square angles. Thai workers seem to have a rather dim understanding of basic geometry..... Therefore, I prefer to do the job myself. Yes, it's much slower, but I have plenty of time and at least I know what I'm doing (to a point, hahaha!).

 

Again, any words of wisdom on the subject of the tile adhesive, and any other stuff relates to tiling, will be most appreciated!

I like to make sure the surface is solid and no chance of easily cracking or crumbling.  Paint peeling.  That sort if thing. Cement sheeting screwed and glued into place can be a good option if surface is real bad.  But seems like yours will be good. Dont think brand matters much.  Mixing ratio is fairly important. I use a paddle on my drill to mix.  Back buttering is a good option for the floor.  You want as solid as you can get with all the foot traffic. Use the levellers too.  Make it easy to get level. Homepro have them. Think youll be fine. Good luck

[gejohesch]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Crocodile brand sounds alright. The different "colors" are for different situation, not quality differences. Look at the labels and maybe translate them.

 

Bigger tiles are bigger headache. You should use a tiling system, something like this:

 

I suggest watch a couple of videos from this guy, he seems to know what he is talking about.

Sal DiBlasi - YouTube

 

And, in my personal opinion, use non-slip tiles.

 

I have non-slip tiles indeed! And I plan to use these plastic "auto-levelers" too! Already bought them. The only thing that worries me is that one has to work quite fast as the tile adhesive sets in within 10-15 minutes already.

[gejohesch]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Does your wife own it? If you can get concrete delivered, I would throw some wire down and dump 75mm on top of it and screed it off. 

Good suggestion, I guess I could have organised that with a little bit of effort (searching, inquiring etc). That being said, I always enjoyed a bit of a challenge. In this case, a bit of an engineering challenge!

[gejohesch]

18 minutes ago, steve187 said:

if that's the finished floor ready for tiles, you are not going to get a good finish with thin bed adhesive, 

I agree. It's not the finished floor yet, it's only the "rough part" of it (and don't mind the mess around, I will clean up once it's all done!). It's just up to the level +/- half a cm about. I still have to pour a last layer to smooth it out.

[gejohesch]

14 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

I like to make sure the surface is solid and no chance of easily cracking or crumbling.  Paint peeling.  That sort if thing. Cement sheeting screwed and glued into place can be a good option if surface is real bad.  But seems like yours will be good. Dont think brand matters much.  Mixing ratio is fairly important. I use a paddle on my drill to mix.  Back buttering is a good option for the floor.  You want as solid as you can get with all the foot traffic. Use the levellers too.  Make it easy to get level. Homepro have them. Think youll be fine. Good luck

Thanks, all well noted. I mixed the adhesive with a trowel before (when I experimented on a wall at the back of the house), but that's fiddly, so I bought a "paddle" which I can fix on my drill. I also back-buttered the tiles when I "experimented", it worked well, so indeed I will keep the good practice! And yes I have the levellers this time, ready to use.

[transam]

Many years back in UK I tiled the floor in my kitchen extension with big 40cm tiles.

 

Never done it before, but a builder friend advised me as a novice to do it this way....

The floor was concrete, so on top of that use a sand & cement screed mix, to get the floor near perfectly level,  will have plenty of time to do it. When dry, then I could use a suitable mixed floor tile adhesive from a tub.

This method ensured no gaps under the tiles to prevent cracking from dropped objects.

It all went well......????

[OneMoreFarang]

34 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

The only thing that worries me is that one has to work quite fast as the tile adhesive sets in within 10-15 minutes already.

I think the idea is to mix it and install some tiles. Then mix a new bucket full (or whatever you need) and install some more tiles.

What you shouldn't do is put extra water in the mix to be able to use it a little longer! 

[OneMoreFarang]

Make sure you leave enough space for the grout. 

Read the instructions on the box of tiles. They recommend size of the grout lines, etc.

 

And I like to advice: Be careful what you do. Take your time and make sure you do it right from the beginning. Because if you do it wrong, there will be a lot of work and headache and cost to get the bad installed tiles out again and do it again. ???? 

[Elkski]

Hate ro rain on your hard work but you absolutely dont know what your doing.   That floor looks terrible.  No way are all those batches going to adhere to to each other or the floor.  You've really created a mess.   There are products called SLC self leveling compounds.  You mix and pour in one quick continuous pour.   Its expensive . You need spiked shoes and a Spike roller. There is a min amd max thickness allowed and a primer is required.    You could also consider a dry mud bed.   Minimum 3/4"   its a mix of sand and cement water, Barely balls up when you sqeeze it.   You must wet the dry cement pad first.  Scree it really flat.  

 Oh my.  Im being polite  

Edited September 1, 2023 by Elkski

[treetops]

7 hours ago, gejohesch said:

. . . . . they are 45 x 45 cm (8 by 8 inches) . . . .

Are you sure?  ~ 18 by 18 inches perhaps?

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, treetops said:

Are you sure?  ~ 18 by 18 inches perhaps?

Or possibly 20cm X 20cm

[gejohesch]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Make sure you leave enough space for the grout. 

Read the instructions on the box of tiles. They recommend size of the grout lines, etc.

 

And I like to advice: Be careful what you do. Take your time and make sure you do it right from the beginning. Because if you do it wrong, there will be a lot of work and headache and cost to get the bad installed tiles out again and do it again. ???? 

That's for sure! I plan to space the tiles by 5mm this time (I did with 2 mm when I "experimented" at the back of the house). I already have the spacers for that. I also bought the grout already (Home Pro) and made sure : it clearly states "2 to 7 mm" (I'm aware the grout recipe changes with the spacing).

 

Re. your previous message, I understand the point about putting in (carefully!) a few tiles, then make  a new batch of tile adhesive etc. What worries me in this is the time it will take me to make that new batch, while the adhesive already in place hardens : if I use the plastic "levelers", I can only use them within the set of tiles I just laid in, and not at the edges of those tiles because the adhesive will become too hard when I come back to put in a new set of tiles?

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, Elkski said:

Hate ro rain on your hard work but you absolutely dont know what your doing.   That floor looks terrible.  No way are all those batches going to adhere to to each other or the floor.  You've really created a mess.   There are products called SLC self leveling compounds.  You mix and pour in one quick continuous pour.   Its expensive . You need spiked shoes and a Spike roller. There is a min amd max thickness allowed and a primer is required.    You could also consider a dry mud bed.   Minimum 3/4"   its a mix of sand and cement water, Barely balls up when you sqeeze it.   You must wet the dry cement pad first.  Scree it really flat.  

 Oh my.  Im being polite  

I know, I know, and I understand your reaction. Someone already commented that "tiles will not fit nice on the floor as shown in my pic". I'm aware of that. As I already said, that is not going to be exactly the floor on which I will place the tiles. I had to fill places as deep as 15 cm in parts to bring the area to about the right horizontal level. I consider that as Part 1 of the job. Part 2 will be adding a thin layer on top to make it smooth and "tile-ready". As it is a large area (50 sq m), I probably will get it done by a local worker I know who is used to doing that sort of thing. One reason I did not get that guy to do Part 1 is that he demonstrated in previous jobs that he has a very dim understanding of what "horizontal, vertical, parallel and square angle" mean!

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, treetops said:

Are you sure?  ~ 18 by 18 inches perhaps?

Well spotted! Indeed, 18 by 18. Typed in too quickly!