4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Whereas a Thai person is taxed on world wide income hence the answer is Yes.

Please can you provide a source for your claim?  I think it is incorrect.

 

The Thai tax code states a person is only tax resident if in the country 180 days or more, it is silent on nationality and I can find no evidence in that code that Thais are taxed on worldwide income regardless of their tax residency status.  If you believe it be to the contrary, then please provide source and evidence of the information, it would be very useful.

14 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

a Thai person is taxed on world wide income

What makes you think so?

 

Oh, i see, MB posted the same question,  but much more polite.  Sorry.

Just now, MistyBlue said:

Please can you provide a source for your claim?  I think it is incorrect.

 

The Thai tax code states a person is only tax resident if in the country 180 days or more, it is silent on nationality and I can find no evidence in that code that Thais are taxed on worldwide income regardless of their tax residency status.  If you believe it be to the contrary, then please provide source and evidence of the information, it would be very useful.

The new tax law confirms it's true, Thai's are taxed on income that is earned overseas and remitted to Thailand, regardless of the year in which it was earned.

 

Are you getting there on this yet?

Just now, Lorry said:

What makes you think so?

See the post above

Yawn, I'm going back to bed, g'night.

20 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The new tax law confirms it's true, Thai's are taxed on income that is earned overseas and remitted to Thailand, regardless of the year in which it was earned.

 

Are you getting there on this yet?

Where in "The new tax law" does it single out Thai nationals to be treated different against what would be an identical tax residency status as a foreigner?  I don't think it does.

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The new tax law confirms it's true, Thai's are taxed on income that is earned overseas and remitted to Thailand, regardless of the year in which it was earned.

 

Are you getting there on this yet?

I think you are very wrong,  nationally doesn't matter for Thai taxes (as in many other countries).

But I understand why you feel this way, you earlier gave an example: if you remit money into Thailand in a year you are not a tax resident,  are you supposed to file taxes ? As a non-tax resident? 

 

In English, order 161/2566 reads "a tax resident who has foreign income AND later brings this money into Thailand". My English is very limited,  maybe a native speaker can help: doesn't this wording assume that this person is a tax resident in both years/always? 

 

My Thai is even worse than my English,  I have no way to judge what the Thai version means. 

But it really doesn't matter,  it means what the RD will say it means. 

1 minute ago, Lorry said:

I think you are very wrong,  nationally doesn't matter for Thai taxes (as in many other countries).

But I understand why you feel this way, you earlier gave an example: if you remit money into Thailand in a year you are not a tax resident,  are you supposed to file taxes ? As a non-tax resident? 

 

In English, order 161/2566 reads "a tax resident who has foreign income AND later brings this money into Thailand". My English is very limited,  maybe a native speaker can help: doesn't this wording assume that this person is a tax resident in both years/always? 

 

My Thai is even worse than my English,  I have no way to judge what the Thai version means. 

But it really doesn't matter,  it means what the RD will say it means. 

How can a foreigner whose only relationship with Thailand is their physical presence, be taxable on funds remitted to Thailand, when they are not present nor resident for tax? 

 

Misty: if you keep editing your posts after I've started to respond, we can't play any more! But to answer your question, it doesn't, that's not the point, the point is as I've just replied in this post above.

 

I'm off back to bed, g'night

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

But to answer your question, it doesn't, that's not the point, the point is as I've just replied in this post above.

But you said it did and that's what I responded to?

 

Here's your original post:

32 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The new tax law confirms it's true, Thai's are taxed on income that is earned overseas and remitted to Thailand, regardless of the year in which it was earned.

 

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

How can a foreigner whose only relationship with Thailand is their physical presence, be taxable on funds remitted to Thailand, when they are not present nor resident for tax? 

Should read "their previous physical presence"

 

I completely agree, it would be absurd. 

2 hours ago, MistyBlue said:

But you said it did and that's what I responded to?

 

Here's your original post:

 

Cool! Anyway, you've already agreed with me that foreigners have different capabilities regarding tax and funds transfers and that was the whole point of this, thanks, 

8 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

 

I am not being sacrastic but very realistic. You have not cited any laws - sorry I am a retired tax guy and some of what you ay is good and some is somewhat less than useful and accurate - no need to take offense - this is serious business we are talking about at least for me it is. But that is OK this thread is just for bouncing thoughts and ideas around.

 

As for Thai nationals not escaping tax obligations they can leave Thailand just as foreigners can and any existing tax liens are hard to collect same as with a foreigner.

 

To be very clear the law is equally for Thais and foreigners who are tax residents which is what we are talking about. Unless you have laws that say otherwise and then I will say thank you for the update. Tax laws tend to be complicated and to think that any non native speaker of Thai or the rare talented foreigner with a very high level of Thai understand Thai laws is unrealistic. To trust that RD officials both understand and explain things correctly to you is not realistic. 

I'm just coming back to this for a moment for a couple of reasons.

 

There is a short exchange a little way further back between Lorry, Misty and myself, in it you'll see that there is the start of agreement that there is a difference, despite the law being the same for both, I suggest you read it. What your work was in your previous life, in a different country, doesn't count for anything here, I further suggest you also answer the four questions that I have put forward to see if you fare differently.

 

19 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Cool! Anyway, you've already agreed with me that foreigners have different capabilities regarding tax and funds transfers and that was the whole point of this, thanks, 

No, I haven't agreed with you on this point at all.

24 minutes ago, MistyBlue said:

No, I haven't agreed with you on this point at all.

You answered No to question 3 above, which is the opposite of what a Thai person can do. Do you now wish to change your previous answer?

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

 which is the opposite of what a Thai person can do

No, I don't believe there are different requirements between a Thai person and a foreigner in this regard who hold the same tax residence status.

 

24 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Do you now wish to change your previous answer?

No, I don't wish to change my previous answer.

Just now, MistyBlue said:

No, I don't believe there are different requirements between a Thai person and a foreigner in this regard who hold the same tax residence status.

 

No, I don't wish to change my previous answer.

You can't qualify the question, the residence status and the ability to modify it is the reason for the difference.

8 hours ago, cleanac said:

For people who have made a lot on crypto, what are you doing with regards to the tax rules next year?

Is there anybody here who has seen an accountant about it, and has some advice to share?

At the moment, it seems like the options are:

• Sell a chunk this month, before the new tax rules kick in.
• Take it on the chin, lose 15%
• Do something creative with tax loopholes
• Take a loan on AAVE to get cash into Thailand this tax year without actually selling
• Move to another country

I use it for living expenses and plan to buy property in the next couple of years, losing 15% will suck. I don't want to sell a lot right now if I can avoid it. Anyone have any better options/advice/ideas?

 

 

crypto bitcoin ethereum BTC ETH cryptocurrency

where does the 15% come from? I thought it was considered income so is taxed the same?  Progressive from 0% to 35%.

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You can't qualify the question, the residence status and the ability to modify it is the reason for the difference.

The Thai Revenue department qualifies the status, here's the extract again which treats Thais and foreigners no in different in relation to their tax resident status.

 

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

Just now, MistyBlue said:

The Thai Revenue department qualifies the status, here's the extract again which treats Thais and foreigners no in different in relation to their tax resident status.

 

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

It doesn't matter what the law says and it doesn't matter what the RD rules say, citing them is nothing more than an attempt at distraction!  I gave you a simple practical application to work through and you answered correctly. Now that you've realised that Thai's are taxed on their world wide income you are looking for ways to  backtrack. It's time to move on. 

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Now that you've realised that Thai's are taxed on their world wide income

No, I haven't realised that at all and I've been consistent in all my posts that I think that is simply incorrect.

 

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It doesn't matter what the law says and it doesn't matter what the RD rules say, citing them is nothing more than an attempt at distraction!

I quoted the revenue department because I believe it clarifies that Thais and Foreigners are treated no differently from a tax resident perspective and that your claims are incorrect.  I think citing the RD was quite appropriate for what we are discussing.

1 minute ago, MistyBlue said:

No, I haven't realised that at all and I've been consistent in all my posts that I think that is simply incorrect.

 

I quoted the revenue department because I believe it clarifies that Thais and Foreigners are treated no differently from a tax resident perspective and that your claims are incorrect.  I think citing the RD was quite appropriate for what we are discussing.

OK Misty, I'm going to bring this circular exchange to an end because it is not productive or useful and is of no benefit. Nothing personal but I shall ignore any further posts from you.

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

OK Misty, I'm going to bring this circular exchange to an end because it is not productive or useful and is of no benefit. Nothing personal but I shall ignore any further posts from you.

Always interesting to see how many posters live their lives in abject fear. Fear of being taxed, fear of their own government, fear of the DWP, fear of COVID, climate change, et al.

Live for today, the future may never come.

16 hours ago, tomkenet said:

Does this mean a person can be taxed on remittance even he is not a tax resident that year if the money is earned a previous year when he was a tax resident.

From the same Baker McKenzie report, "Foreign sourced income is subject to tax in a taxable year in which it is remitted into Thailand."

41 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Always interesting to see how many posters live their lives in abject fear. Fear of being taxed, fear of their own government, fear of the DWP, fear of COVID, climate change, et al.

Live for today, the future may never come.

I've already calculated that, with just the deductions currently available and no DTA type exemptions, my tax bill in Thailand would be abut $US 100 per month -- and with the DTA maybe ZERO.

 

So I don/'t really see where this abject fear nonsense comes into play.

39 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

From the same Baker McKenzie report, "Foreign sourced income is subject to tax in a taxable year in which it is remitted into Thailand."

 

The statement about foreign sourced income only being liable to Thai tax when it is remitted is perhaps one of the oldest and most frequently posted statements in these discussions yet many have never seen it and many don't understand it!

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

18 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I've already calculated that, with just the deductions currently available and no DTA type exemptions, my tax bill in Thailand would be abut $US 100 per month -- and with the DTA maybe ZERO.

 

So I don/'t really see where this abject fear nonsense comes into play.

Many people are starting from different points on the subject of tax, for many, tax is never something they have needed or wanted to understand hence there's a lot of ignorance surrounding the subject. In the UK, HMRC keeps a pretty tight reign on things and does most of the heavy lifting. In the US, Tax form filling companies abound. Here, neither of those things exist and many are fearful..

21 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Yet again, I will refer you to the paragraph in the original announcement ( that you fastudiously ignore, or are incapable of understanding ) that people from Countries that have a DTA with Thailand will be exempt.

 

 

Go ahead - show me that quote in a link or attach a document.

 

This is going to be fun. 

 

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

Go ahead - show me that quote in a link or attach a document.

 

This is going to be fun. 

 

 

This may help, go to 4 Resident.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/859.html

8 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

Go ahead - show me that quote in a link or attach a document.

 

This is going to be fun. 

 

9.    What is the method for elimination of double taxation provided in the agreement?  

- In a double taxation agreement, there are credit and exemption methods.  

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23520.html

 

These are some quesations that I would like answered by Thai RD.  This is based upon an Expat that stays 180+ days, and does not earn any money in Thailand, and remits money into Thailand from overseas.   Anyone know how to ask them?

 

Does a long term Expat have to lodge an annual tax return from 2024 tax year onwards, in order to 'prove' that the money they have remitted into Thailand in that year, is not taxable or is exempt under an existing DTA ?

 

Can an Expat 'decide' that they do not have to lodge a return from 2024 tax year onwards, because they believe that the money they have remitted into Thailand in that year is not taxable or is exempt under an existing DTA ?

 

Can an Expat 'decide' that they do not have to lodge a return from 2024 tax year onwards, because they have calculated that some/all of the money they have remitted into Thailand in that year is 'taxable income', but it is below the Thai tax free threshold (with or without Allowances and Deductions) and therefore payment of income taxes is not required ?

 

Will/Does the Thai RD provide an English speaking (plus maybe Japanese, Korean, Chinese etc) call centre or service, whereby Expats as detailed above, can call and seek advice regarding their obligations to lodge income tax returns.  

My position is and has been clear from the start  - this is a very serious matter and discussing it and expressing opinions is not 'fear mongering'. If some people only erver want to hear good news and are wearing rose coloured glasses, then they should just stay away.  This new income tax rule means that unless Thai RD answers those questions above positively in our favour, then all Expats are going to be 'expected' to complete annual tax returns and pay income taxes if the Thai RD deems that applicable.  BUT - that has not been confirmed or denied by Thai RD - they are not answering our questions.