CRS self-certification at Bangkok Bank

[24Catty]

Bangkok Bank amended it's FATCA form and the customer is supposed to choose one of these 3:

 

1. You are Thai national and subject to taxes in Thailand only

2. You are subject to taxes both in Thailand and any other non-US country

3. You are tax resident of any other country (not US and not Thailand)

 

Has anyone experience how to tell them you are tax resident only in Thailand,  but not a Thai national? 

The forms of other banks are much clearer. Neither the call center nor the branch knows anything. They don't even know whether the form is actually required for old customers.

 

 

 

 

[retarius]

Sharp; they are ahead of the game, presumably because they are the only bank entitled to handle SS payments....(that's Social Security, not the other German lot.)

 

I'm going to change my tax residency next year to somewhere other than Thailand. I have homes elsewhere and will use one of those countries. 

[samtam]

14 minutes ago, retarius said:

Sharp; they are ahead of the game, presumably because they are the only bank entitled to handle SS payments....(that's Social Security, not the other German lot.)

 

I'm going to change my tax residency next year to somewhere other than Thailand. I have homes elsewhere and will use one of those countries. 

Of course if you live in Thailand for 180 days you are a tax resident of Thailand, whether or not you state otherwise. I have right of abode in two other countries, but I have been living in Thailand for more than 180 days, therefore I have to declare Thailand as my tax residence. If the RD's new interpretation of the law requires me to pay tax in Thailand, I will choose to live in other residences, one of which does not impose tax on income derived from pension and savings.

[connda]

30 minutes ago, retarius said:

presumably because they are the only bank entitled to handle SS payments

Not anymore.  You can direct deposit your Social Security to any commercial bank in Thailand.

[JackGats]

Is the FACTA form for Americans to fill in?

[24Catty]

3 hours ago, JackGats said:

Is the FACTA form for Americans to fill in?

Yes, but they  added a question about CRS.

They say everybody has to fill in the form, Thais too.

 

The  funny thing is that in this form it is not possible to state that one is a foreigner,  but a tax resident only in Thailand. But that is actually the normal way things are, if a foreigner lives in Thailand. 

Only Americans are always subject to tax in their home country. 

 

[Beerzy65]

7 hours ago, 24Catty said:

Yes, but they  added a question about CRS.

They say everybody has to fill in the form, Thais too.

 

The  funny thing is that in this form it is not possible to state that one is a foreigner,  but a tax resident only in Thailand. But that is actually the normal way things are, if a foreigner lives in Thailand. 

Only Americans are always subject to tax in their home country. 

 

Only Americans are always subject to tax in their home country.

This is incorrect as I am subject to tax in my home country

[JackGats]

1 hour ago, Beerzy65 said:

Only Americans are always subject to tax in their home country.

This is incorrect as I am subject to tax in my home country

What about the word "always"? Doesn't it have a meaning too, like other words in the sentence?

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, 24Catty said:

Bangkok Bank amended it's FATCA form and the customer is supposed to choose one of these 3:

 

1. You are Thai national and subject to taxes in Thailand only

2. You are subject to taxes both in Thailand and any other non-US country

3. You are tax resident of any other country (not US and not Thailand)

 

Has anyone experience how to tell them you are tax resident only in Thailand,  but not a Thai national? 

The forms of other banks are much clearer. Neither the call center nor the branch knows anything. They don't even know whether the form is actually required for old customers.

 

 

 

 

Chose #2, it's ambiguous, like their tax laws. 

[paulbrow]

3 hours ago, Beerzy65 said:

Only Americans are always subject to tax in their home country.

This is incorrect as I am subject to tax in my home country

For clarity, you must pay home country income tax on money earned in Thailand, or anywhere else outside your home country? I've always believed there are only 2 countries in the world that make their citizens pay tax on money earned outside of their home country, one of them being the US.

[freeworld]

As someone else stated, you choose 2.

 

As a foreigner, If you are tax resident in Thailand, the CRS reporting will go to Thai RD and to your home country tax office.

 

Anyway, good to see you are proactive going around to financial institutions to update your CRS status in advance of them requesting the info.

Edited October 5, 2023 by freeworld

[freeworld]

19 hours ago, 24Catty said:

Bangkok Bank amended it's FATCA form and the customer is supposed to choose one of these 3:

 

1. You are Thai national and subject to taxes in Thailand only

2. You are subject to taxes both in Thailand and any other non-US country

3. You are tax resident of any other country (not US and not Thailand)

 

Has anyone experience how to tell them you are tax resident only in Thailand,  but not a Thai national? 

The forms of other banks are much clearer. Neither the call center nor the branch knows anything. They don't even know whether the form is actually required for old customers.

 

 

 

 

Of course it is going to be for old customers. It is for all investment and bank accounts.

[flexomike]

20 hours ago, retarius said:

Sharp; they are ahead of the game, presumably because they are the only bank entitled to handle SS payments....(that's Social Security, not the other German lot.)

 

I'm going to change my tax residency next year to somewhere other than Thailand. I have homes elsewhere and will use one of those countries. 

not true on the US Social Security deposit, with IDD International Direct Deposit you can put it in almost any Thai Bank, wife uses Krungthai

[flexomike]

18 hours ago, JackGats said:

Is the FACTA form for Americans to fill in?

yes

[aldriglikvid]

Systems of taxation on personal income

  No income tax on individuals

  Territorial

  Residence-based

  Citizenship-based

 

Ter: In the territorial system, only local income – income from a source inside the country – is taxed.

 

Res: In the residence-based system, residents of the country are taxed on their worldwide (local and foreign) income, while nonresidents are taxed only on their local income.

 

Cit: A few countries also tax the worldwide income of their nonresident citizens.

 

Contrary to popular opinion, the majority of countries tax "worldwide income" - but what's often forgotten (and especially during these last news about a change in Thai tax laws) is that there are agreements in place to offset taxation of multiple places for the same income. Countries with a residence-based system of taxation usually allow deductions or credits for the tax that residents already pay to other countries on their foreign income. Many countries also sign tax treaties with each other to eliminate or reduce double taxation. 

 

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, freeworld said:

As a foreigner, If you are tax resident in Thailand, the CRS reporting will go to Thai RD and to your home country tax office.

 

CRS reports information on account holders who are tax resident(s) outside of the country where they hold their accounts. No information is sent to the country of citizenship if not tax resident there (except countries that apply citizenship-based taxation).

[chilly07]

18 hours ago, 24Catty said:

Yes, but they  added a question about CRS.

They say everybody has to fill in the form, Thais too.

 

The  funny thing is that in this form it is not possible to state that one is a foreigner,  but a tax resident only in Thailand. But that is actually the normal way things are, if a foreigner lives in Thailand. 

Only Americans are always subject to tax in their home country. 

 

Not so. 

I pay full income tax on my pensions in the UK despite  living in Thailand. UK has a dual tax treaty with Thailand.

[freeworld]

6 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Not so. 

I pay full income tax on my pensions in the UK despite  living in Thailand. UK has a dual tax treaty with Thailand.

Nothing to do with whether tax was paid. It is reporting customers financial information by banks and financial institutions.

Edited October 5, 2023 by freeworld

[freeworld]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

CRS reports information on account holders who are tax resident(s) outside of the country where they hold their accounts. No information is sent to the country of citizenship if not tax resident there (except countries that apply citizenship-based taxation).

Thanks for that clarification.

[Lorry]

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Chose #2, it's ambiguous, like their tax laws. 

What is ambiguous here?

(Sorry, English is not my native language)

Edited October 5, 2023 by Lorry

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

What is ambiguous here?

(Sorry, English is not my native language)

As of yet we don't know if this is going to affect pensions if your country has a double tax treaty, the tax laws haven't really been worked out in detail, the devil lives in the detail, consequences of the laws have to be considered as well as the methods of enforcement, it may end up as a zero end game if many more staff have to be employed or if it frightens off investors.

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

As of yet we don't know if this is going to affect pensions if your country has a double tax treaty, the tax laws haven't really been worked out in detail, the devil lives in the detail, consequences of the laws have to be considered as well as the methods of enforcement, it may end up as a zero end game if many more staff have to be employed or if it frightens off investors.

This thread is about FATCA/CRS, isn't it?

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

This thread is about FATCA/CRS, isn't it?

Oh, OK. whatever.

[topt]

6 hours ago, chilly07 said:

Not so. 

I pay full income tax on my pensions in the UK despite  living in Thailand. UK has a dual tax treaty with Thailand.

Which means what exactly?

Unless you are referring to government/civil service pensions the DTA with Thailand specifically excludes other pensions.

 

See this link and scroll to page 34 and within Thailand look at note 4 on the far right.....

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

[24Catty]

Most countries tax residents (the dark blue countries in the map above).

A foreigner who resides only in Thailand pays tax only in Thailand (there may be exceptions for income from abroad,  like pensions from another country). The nationality doesn't matter at all (exceptions: the pink countries).

 

We asked a branch with many foreign customers. It took them a while to understand the problem. They said chose 2, delete the phrase "and any other non-US country". They also said the wife doesn't have to fill in this form. 

Both answers are a bit weird.

[Lorry]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:20 PM, 24Catty said:

Most countries tax residents (the dark blue countries in the map above).

A foreigner who resides only in Thailand pays tax only in Thailand (there may be exceptions for income from abroad,  like pensions from another country). The nationality doesn't matter at all (exceptions: the pink countries).

 

We asked a branch with many foreign customers. It took them a while to understand the problem. They said chose 2, delete the phrase "and any other non-US country". They also said the wife doesn't have to fill in this form. 

Both answers are a bit weird.

Krungsri gave me a very different form. 

Easy to understand. 

They told me nationally is not important,  tax residence is important. 

If you are only a Thailand tax resident then you can be from whatever nationality,  it doesn't matter. So I don't understand what Bangkok Bank means.