ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[Danderman123]

If you open a door into a tiger cage, and jump in, claiming the tiger is genocidal won't help you.

 

Stupid is as stupid does.

[placeholder]

Here's a rather interesting article that addresses some of the factors that have led to this latest conflict

 

This Gaza war didn’t come out of nowhere

https://www.vox.com/2023/10/7/23907912/israel-palestine-conflict-history-explained-gaza-hamas

 

It could been seen as running counter to the narrative the mostly implicates Iran. Still, it's possible for there to be more than one reason for the current conflict. A case of parallel interests coinciding.

 

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Here's a rather interesting article that addresses some of the factors that have led to this latest conflict

 

This Gaza war didn’t come out of nowhere

https://www.vox.com/2023/10/7/23907912/israel-palestine-conflict-history-explained-gaza-hamas

 

It could been seen as running counter to the narrative the mostly implicates Iran. Still, it's possible for there to be more than one reason for the current conflict.

 

Boring, rather than interesting. Nothing new there. Not even as per the current attack. The same argument appeared since yesterday on quite a few opinion columns etc.

 

And, unless I missed it, not an ounce of accountability expected from the Palestinians as to their own on going situation. Not a shred of responsibility. Always someone else fault or failure.

[Mr Meeseeks]

One of Celtic’s former players not happy at fans showing support for Palestine at the Knew Camp yesterday. 
 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/nir-bitton-turns-celtic-fans-27865000?int_source=nba

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

Boring, rather than interesting. Nothing new there. Not even as per the current attack. The same argument appeared since yesterday on quite a few opinion columns etc.

 

And, unless I missed it, not an ounce of accountability expected from the Palestinians as to their own on going situation. Not a shred of responsibility. Always someone else fault or failure.

Well, I'm sure it's all old hat to you.. But it's apparent that lots of the members posting here don't seem to have a clue about the role that the Israelis have played in stoking the hatred that leads to this violence.  They just call it terrorism. And I, for one, didn't know about all the incidents chronicled in that article.

[johnnybangkok]

28 minutes ago, Morch said:

Boring, rather than interesting. Nothing new there. Not even as per the current attack. The same argument appeared since yesterday on quite a few opinion columns etc.

 

And, unless I missed it, not an ounce of accountability expected from the Palestinians as to their own on going situation. Not a shred of responsibility. Always someone else fault or failure.

Boring? Really?

'Gaza is in essence a refugee camp (about 70 percent of those living in Gaza come from families displaced from the 1948 war) and an open-air prison, according to human rights groups. The United Nations describes the occupied territory as a “chronic humanitarian crisis.” Israel has blockaded Gaza since Hamas assumed control of the territory in 2007, and neighboring Egypt to the south has also imposed severe restrictions on movement.'   https://www.vox.com/2023/10/7/23907912/israel-palestine-conflict-history-explained-gaza-hamas

 

No one is condoning the actions opf Hamas but you MUST acknowledge they have reason (I wonder how many westeners would tolerate the same). Israel's continued  persecution of Palestine has to be addressed and flippant statements such as 'Boring, rather than interesting. Nothing new there' add nothing to your impartiality and therefore your credibility.  

[seajae]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Israel has been killing hundreds of Palestinians while suffering very few casualties in the past, so perhaps that comment can be redirected 180 degrees.

thats because the terrorist are cowards that hide behind women & children after killing innocent people so that they are also killed in any retaliation,  when you have pathetic  brain dead  men that get their jollies by killing/slaughtering/raping small children and bragging about it to show how"big" they think they  are you really have to wonder how pathetic these people really are, they deserve to be removed from the earth permanently as do any that do what these animals have done. At least the Israel soldiers dont hide behind civillians like these animals do, these terrorists use  civillian schools/hospitals etc to hide their weapons/bombs, they deserve everything that happens to them.

[novacova]

Israel is surrounded by countries of pure hatred for their existence. Hamas is nothing more than a terrorist organization being pushed by Iran. Both Iran and Hamas need to be dealt with, and now they opened the opportunity to get their clock cleaned. I have not the slightest sympathy for Hamas, any sympathy for that sick terrorist thug gang must be a bleeding heart in severe delusion, throw hezbollah in the mix as well while at it.

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, I'm sure it's all old hat to you.. But it's apparent that lots of the members posting here don't seem to have a clue about the role that the Israelis have played in stoking the hatred that leads to this violence.  They just call it terrorism. And I, for one, didn't know about all the incidents chronicled in that article.

On the contrary, there are plenty of posts on this topic detailing in length how Israel is the cause of it all. You may want to scroll through it again before making such odd statements. Sure, some people are into it's-all-the-Palestinians'-fault. They got their own posts as well.

 

In all the years since this conflict came about, the Palestinians somehow failed producing effective leadership, a unity of cause, defining realistic goals and formulating strategies to achieve them, no functioning social and economical infrastructure, and not diplomatic horizons past clinging to slogans and doing the same things over and over again.

 

The other side fared better.

 

Now this difference can be attributed to many factors. And these could play good talking points as well. But the bottom line remains.

 

All them articles, columns, opinion pieces going on about how Israel done the Palestinians wrong, how the world, the West, Arab countries, or whomever did them wrong are all very well. But as things stand, even if the Palestinians would be handed a state tomorrow morning, it would crumble on its own by the end of the year.

 

I may add that laying all the blame on Israel, The West, The USA, Colonialism, Imperialism and whatnot is in itself a condescending position. It forever casts the Palestinians as incapable, helpless, clueless and unable to take charge of their own destiny.  

[Morch]

38 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Boring? Really?

'Gaza is in essence a refugee camp (about 70 percent of those living in Gaza come from families displaced from the 1948 war) and an open-air prison, according to human rights groups. The United Nations describes the occupied territory as a “chronic humanitarian crisis.” Israel has blockaded Gaza since Hamas assumed control of the territory in 2007, and neighboring Egypt to the south has also imposed severe restrictions on movement.'   https://www.vox.com/2023/10/7/23907912/israel-palestine-conflict-history-explained-gaza-hamas

 

No one is condoning the actions opf Hamas but you MUST acknowledge they have reason (I wonder how many westeners would tolerate the same). Israel's continued  persecution of Palestine has to be addressed and flippant statements such as 'Boring, rather than interesting. Nothing new there' add nothing to your impartiality and therefore your credibility.  

 

Yes. Really.

No one argues that the Palestinian predicament is not bad. Their plight and misery has been discussed even just on this forum numerous times on multiple topics and posts. And sure, Israel played a major part in that. But people all over the world managed to assert themselves, pick a route that would secure them freedom, prosperity and so on. The Palestinians seem unable to progress much beyond armed struggle and complaining about their lot. There is very little by way of realistic, constructive efforts to change things. There's no credible leadership, no achievable goal and a plan how to get there.

 

I'm not saying the Palestinians' situation is boring. The article is. The position that the Palestinians are not accountable for anything, not responsible for anything, passive. That's boring.

[Danderman123]

I don't think many people here are aware of the history of Gaza, which is very different from the West Bank.

 

The Gaza strip has been the home of Palestinians for thousands of years. They used to be called "Phillistines ", and originally came from Greece. Over the years, they intebred with Hebrews and were Arabized later.

 

Eventually, Egypt gained control of the Gaza Strip and so the locals gained an affinity for Egypt that resulted in a very different culture than other Palestinians. At some point, Egypt was forced to give it up, and Gaza continued as the home for Palestinians under Israeli control.

 

What should happen is that the residents should have complete independence (not as part of the West Bank government), but without any allusions to somehow conquering Israel for themselves. The sooner that the historical status of Gaza as a separate and free standing entity is realized, the fighting ends.

 

That's the solution.

 

However, Hamas is more interested in getting funding for fighting Israel than administering an independent country. They are the barrier to Gazan independence.

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I don't think many people here are aware of the history of Gaza, which is very different from the West Bank.

 

The Gaza strip has been the home of Palestinians for thousands of years. They used to be called "Phillistines ", and originally came from Greece. Over the years, they intebred with Hebrews and were Arabized later.

 

Eventually, Egypt gained control of the Gaza Strip and so the locals gained an affinity for Egypt that resulted in a very different culture than other Palestinians. At some point, Egypt was forced to give it up, and Gaza continued as the home for Palestinians under Israeli control.

 

What should happen is that the residents should have complete independence (not as part of the West Bank government), but without any allusions to somehow conquering Israel for themselves. The sooner that the historical status of Gaza as a separate and free standing entity is realized, the fighting ends.

 

That's the solution.

 

However, Hamas is more interested in getting funding for fighting Israel than administering an independent country. They are the barrier to Gazan independence.

The Philistines are  nothing to do with the Palestinians , two different peoples , just both begin with the letter P , thats the one thing that have in common .

   Philistines became extinct thousands of years ago  

[Danderman123]

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The Philistines are  nothing to do with the Palestinians , two different peoples , just both begin with the letter P , thats the one thing that have in common .

   Philistines became extinct thousands of years ago  

As I said, the Phillistines interbred with Hebrews, and later became Arabized.

 

But the Phillistines are the ancestors of the Gazans, and the word "Palestine" came from "Phillistine".

[Nick Carter icp]

12 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

As I said, the Phillistines interbred with Hebrews, and later became Arabized.

 

But the Phillistines are the ancestors of the Gazans, and the word "Palestine" came from "Phillistine".

Palestinians have nothing to do with the Philistines , different peoples 

[Danderman123]

 

This creates the prospect of US Special Forces in Gaza.

[Danderman123]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Palestinians have nothing to do with the Philistines , different peoples 

Who lived in the Gaza Strip 100 years ago? Where did they come from?

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Who lived in the Gaza Strip 100 years ago? Where did they come from?

Adbul Azziz moved to Gaza in 1927, he came from Ashkelon , he got a job as a fisherman 

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

 

This creates the prospect of US Special Forces in Gaza.

The USA are moving its Navy to Closer to Israel .

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Adbul Azziz moved to Gaza in 1927, he came from Ashkelon , he got a job as a fisherman 

Ashkelon was an ancient Phillistine city.

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Ashkelon was an ancient Phillistine city.

Yes, the Philistine left  1000s of years ago , became extinct , I think they all got eaten by dinosaurs 

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Yes, the Philistine left  1000s of years ago , became extinct , I think they all got eaten by dinosaurs 

IiRC, the Hebrews left Israel 2,000 years ago.

[Nick Carter icp]

19 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

IiRC, the Hebrews left Israel 2,000 years ago.

Didn't they go for a 40 year walk around the Sinai or something ?

[MrMojoRisin]

17 hours ago, seajae said:

the terrorists have killed 250 plus and wounded 1500 plus by attacking civillian towns, this is terrrorism at its worst and they need to be wiped out completely, attacking soldiers is one thing but killing hundreds of innocent civillians because of their BS beliefs deserves total annihilation so it never happens again. This shows how backward and demented these terrorists really are, they are still living in the dark ages.

How should Palestinians fightback against Israeli occupation and oppression?

What options do they have?

What would you do if you had to walk a mile or two in Palestinian shoes?

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

How should Palestinians fightback against Israeli occupation and oppression?

What options do they have?

What would you do if you had to walk a mile or two in Palestinian shoes?

Go about your life without threatening your neighbors.

 

Focus on a peace agreement that opens a port for Gaza.

 

Work for a government focused on making life better for Gazans, not destroying Israel.

[Tug]

All of this being said I’m really really having trouble believing that a top tier intelligence agency like mossad dident catch wind of an operation of this size frankly I don’t believe it this operation involved thousands of people planning and stockpiling for months something smells fishey to me sorry but something just not square on this deal

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Didn't they go for a 40 year walk around the Sinai or something ?

The point is that Gazans have been living in Gaza for thousands of years.

[MrMojoRisin]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

The Palestinians seem unable to progress much beyond armed struggle and complaining about their lot. There is very little by way of realistic, constructive efforts to change things. There's no credible leadership, no achievable goal and a plan how to get there.

"If you see a turtle on a fence post, you know it had some help" - Bill Clinton

 

Israel have deliberately engineered the Palestinians current predicament.

[Danderman123]

Just now, Tug said:

All of this being said I’m really really having trouble believing that a top tier intelligence agency like mossad dident catch wind of an operation of this size frankly I don’t believe it this operation involved thousands of people planning and stockpiling for months something smells fishey to me sorry but something just not square on this deal

Remember 9/11?

 

Yes, it was an intelligence failure.

[Danderman123]

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

"If you see a turtle on a fence post, you know it had some help" - Bill Clinton

 

Israel have deliberately engineered the Palestinians current predicament.

Israel set up Hamas in the first place. Bad move.

[MrMojoRisin]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Go about your life without threatening your neighbors.

 

Focus on a peace agreement that opens a port for Gaza.

 

Work for a government focused on making life better for Gazans, not destroying Israel.

Oh, they should just drop their pants, bend over and accept the slow motion genocide being inflicted upon them in silence?

 

IMHO the greatest villain here is the international community that allows this situation to persist decade after decade.

 

The UN must impose a border, based upon the 1967 green-line, and then militarily enforce it.