‘A deadly societal force’: A Q&A with author Dr. Peter Hotez on the anti-science movement

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

"Nothing can change that" includes dubious statistics of course.

And your criterion for dubiousness apparently is whatever doesn't support what you believe. 

[rattlesnake]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And your criterion for dubiousness apparently is whatever doesn't support what you believe. 

My criterion for dubiousness is whatever doesn't fit what happens in the real world.

 

As an unvaccinated person, I should be long dead according to your rationale, and yet here I am, in perfect health. I never even caught Covid. I know a lot of people who can say the same, so it isn't just me. Unfortunately the same can't be said about the vaccinated.

 

I can PM you a social media post where 2000+ Thai people (unquestionably real people, these are not "statistics" or sweeping third-party statements) comment on their health issues since taking the jab. Are you interested?

Edited October 9, 2023 by rattlesnake

[rabas]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

What Hotez refers to as "the rise of anti-science" is in fact the rise of awareness: awareness that the parmaceutical industry is worth billions of dollars and does not profit from healthy people.

 

Hotez and his pharma-sponsored acolytes don't get to decide who is smart and who isn't anymore. People are doing their own research and feeling a lot better for it, and nothing can change that.

Holtz is not talking about true contrarians, but about blurred folks blindly following other blurred folks on social media. 

 

A bit like someone bashing Hotez as a big pharma baddie clueless that Hotez is  actually a top anti big pharma hero. Yes, he's brilliant and designs his own vaccines that he gives away for free to combat big pharma. 

 

"CORBEVAX, licensed for free to Indian biopharmaceutical compaies, represents a major step toward accelerating worldwide access to vaccines. Hotez is also working on vaccines for hookworm, leishmaniasis, and other overlooked illnesses."

 

There are other bright scientists fighting big pharma whom I've discussed in the past. 

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Holtz is not talking about true contrarians, but about blurred folks blindly following other blurred folks on social media. 

 

A bit like someone bashing Hotez as a big pharma baddie clueless that Hotez is  actually a top anti big pharma hero. Yes, he's brilliant and designs his own vaccines that he gives away for free to combat big pharma. 

 

"CORBEVAX, licensed for free to Indian biopharmaceutical compaies, represents a major step toward accelerating worldwide access to vaccines. Hotez is also working on vaccines for hookworm, leishmaniasis, and other overlooked illnesses."

 

There are other bright scientists fighting big pharma whom I've discussed in the past. 

This is what Hotez wrote in 2021:

"We must recognize the potential necessity of assertively confronting anti-science, even if this exceeds the usual confines of biomedicine or the comfort zone of scientists. This may include an appetite to dismantle and remove anti-science content and organizations from the social media and e-commerce sites."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7842901/

[Bkk Brian]

Not easy to get out of the cult but a good article here on how a student nurse broke free from the online anti vax misinformation and is now administering vaccines herself.

 

She used to call herself an antivaxxer. Now, she’s a student nurse — who just gave her first vaccine

Spending time in anti-vaccine circles only drew her in further. “It’s almost cult-like,” she says. Feeling like your concerns are being heard makes it easy to join, and the fear of betraying a trusted community makes it hard to leave.”
She says some parents are “just on the fence and confused” and they’re relatively reachable by vaccination campaigns. But for those who have fully embraced the community, it’s tougher. “The parents who were like I was? It’s a long battle.”

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/she-used-to-call-herself-an-antivaxxer-now-she-s-a-student-nurse-who-just/article_93cfd39c-7546-5ff5-bc84-75f087f7d7a3.html

https://archive.ph/4WPgy

[Red Phoenix]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

A bit like someone bashing Hotez as a big pharma baddie clueless that Hotez is  actually a top anti big pharma hero. Yes, he's brilliant and designs his own vaccines that he gives away for free to combat big pharma. 

A little back-ground on that brilliant philantropic scientist: 

Institutions run by Dr Hotez have received well over 100 million dollars in grant funding over the years from the Gates Foundation and U.S. government health institutions, specifically focused on developing hookworm and parasite vaccines.

And the government continues to give healthy sums of annual grant cash to Hotez, both for his Baylor entities and his parasite vaccine work.

NOTE: Hotez has dedicated his career to developing vaccines for parasites, specifically hookworms. And what began as a doctoral dissertation on hookworm vaccination in 1987 (!) has transformed into a several decades quest to create vaccine-induced immunity against multicellular organisms.

Unfortunately for Hotez, 35 years later, he still has nothing to show for his prized parasite vaccine ambitions, besides ongoing trials. 

Yep, a brilliant parasite if there ever was one...

[impulse]

7 hours ago, rabas said:

"CORBEVAX, licensed for free to Indian biopharmaceutical compaies, represents a major step toward accelerating worldwide access to vaccines. Hotez is also working on vaccines for hookworm, leishmaniasis, and other overlooked illnesses."

Licensed for free in India, where they can then do the human testing required to get it approved in wealthier countries like the USA where it will sell for $$ billions?

 

Edit:  That is a question mark...  And one of my pet peeves.  Drugs that sell for gobsmacking prices in the USA are available in other countries for less than 1/10 the price.  Sometimes, virtually free.  So I suspect a commercial motive, rather than a humanitarian one.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by impulse

[LosLobo]

10 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Context is everything, Steven. I will gladly clarify for you:

 

"Waking up" here means breaking free from the paradigm under which "science" is the de facto way forward and all those who challenge it are somehow lacking intellect or "education".

 

What Hotez refers to as "the rise of anti-science" is in fact the rise of awareness: awareness that the parmaceutical industry is worth billions of dollars and does not profit from healthy people.

 

Hotez and his pharma-sponsored acolytes don't get to decide who is smart and who isn't anymore. People are doing their own research and feeling a lot better for it, and nothing can change that.

'People are doing their own research'?

 

Do your own research.

 

'A phrase meaning "Google until you find something that agrees with you"'.

 

'Typically used to pretend the person saying it is somehow smarter than all of the experts'.

 

Urban Dictionary: do your own research

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by LosLobo

[rattlesnake]

4 hours ago, LosLobo said:

'People are doing their own research'?

 

Do your own research.

 

'A phrase meaning "Google until you find something that agrees with you"'.

 

'Typically used to pretend the person saying it is somehow smarter than all of the experts'.

 

Urban Dictionary: do your own research

 

"A phrase meaning "Google until you find something that agrees with you"

As you have just demonstrated.

 

This phrase is the symptom of an irremediable breach of trust in the authorities.

[Bkk Brian]

Disturbing rise of the cult of hard-line anti-vaxxers

“Anti-vax influencers” are using the same techniques today, Hassan argues, noting they use social media “to bombard their targets with message that sow doubt, fear and confusion about the COVID-19 vaccine.”

Specifically, they highlight examples of adverse vaccine reactions without saying how rare they are, withhold positive information about the vaccines, distort information by misinterpreting data, casting doubt about public-health experts, and spreading outright lies on social media about vaccinations.

Here in Canada, cult-like anti-vaxxers are stepping up their tactics of harassment and intimidation, especially against health-care professionals and politicians — all with the aim of getting them to reverse their stand on the need for vaccinations

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/disturbing-rise-of-the-cult-of-hard-line-anti-vaxxers/article_e6c2b0ee-2595-5ef5-b9b0-2a17b8057dc5.html

[Lorry]

20 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

People are doing their own research

Every time I see googling called "research" I want to vomit 

[rattlesnake]

Few people care about what makes vax cultists vomit, nor what causes them to write books nobody reads. Times are changing.

[Bkk Brian]

If only they hadn't been in the cult..............

 

More and more conservative media leaders are dying from COVID-19 after advocating against vaccines

Another leader in the conservative media space has died from COVID-19 and his death marks a growing trend of like-minded anti-vaccine advocates that have themselves succumbed to the virus.

Marcus Lamb, the 64-year-old co-founder of Christian TV network Daystar, died this week after contracting COVID-19 in November. The conservative broadcast network questioned the safety of vaccines and aired a segment that falsely claimed COVID-19 vaccines are, “killing your immune system,” according to The New York Times.

Lamb’s death comes as the World Health Organization (WHO) declared omicron a new variant of concern, and urged that vaccination efforts be “intensified” for all eligible populations.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/584077-more-and-more-conservative-media-leaders-are/

 

[bignok]

51 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Every time I see googling called "research" I want to vomit 

Googling is research. You obviously don't know much about research. You can read a 100 scientific studies on all sorts of topics.

 

 

[gargamon]

38 minutes ago, bignok said:

Googling is research. You obviously don't know much about research. You can read a 100 scientific studies on all sorts of topics.

 

 

Googling is research to people who don't know what research is. 

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, bignok said:

Googling is research

That belongs in the thread for jokes

[bignok]

1 hour ago, gargamon said:

Googling is research to people who don't know what research is. 

You dont know what research is then.

[bignok]

30 minutes ago, Lorry said:

That belongs in the thread for jokes

Another person with no idea about research.

[bignok]

Person A spends 100 hours googling the mating habits of bees is going to be an expert.

 

Same with any topic. 

[gamb00ler]

On 10/8/2023 at 5:54 AM, BritManToo said:

Bible says life is 3 score + 10 = 70 years.

As far as I have seen that's pretty much correct.

No need for science, the bible has already said it all!

Until the 1800's high infant mortality kept the life expectancy far below the bible's prediction.

 

Next!

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

If only they hadn't been in the cult..............

 

More and more conservative media leaders are dying from COVID-19 after advocating against vaccines

Another leader in the conservative media space has died from COVID-19 and his death marks a growing trend of like-minded anti-vaccine advocates that have themselves succumbed to the virus.

Marcus Lamb, the 64-year-old co-founder of Christian TV network Daystar, died this week after contracting COVID-19 in November. The conservative broadcast network questioned the safety of vaccines and aired a segment that falsely claimed COVID-19 vaccines are, “killing your immune system,” according to The New York Times.

Lamb’s death comes as the World Health Organization (WHO) declared omicron a new variant of concern, and urged that vaccination efforts be “intensified” for all eligible populations.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/584077-more-and-more-conservative-media-leaders-are/

 

This is from December 2021. I appreciate the effort… but could you Google 2023, Brian? I would be interested in statistics on the vaccination status of people currently dying of Covid.

[gamb00ler]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I would be interested in statistics on the vaccination status of people currently dying of Covid.

Miss Info has several YouTube channels to "answer" your query.

[rattlesnake]

12 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Miss Info has several YouTube channels to "answer" your query.

Sharp.

[Red Phoenix]

11 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

If only they hadn't been in the cult..............

 

More and more conservative media leaders are dying from COVID-19 after advocating against vaccines

Another leader in the conservative media space has died from COVID-19 and his death marks a growing trend of like-minded anti-vaccine advocates that have themselves succumbed to the virus.

Marcus Lamb, the 64-year-old co-founder of Christian TV network Daystar, died this week after contracting COVID-19 in November. The conservative broadcast network questioned the safety of vaccines and aired a segment that falsely claimed COVID-19 vaccines are, “killing your immune system,” according to The New York Times.

Lamb’s death comes as the World Health Organization (WHO) declared omicron a new variant of concern, and urged that vaccination efforts be “intensified” for all eligible populations.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/584077-more-and-more-conservative-media-leaders-are/

Wow, you found a December 2021 newspaper article!   

TIP: Check out Mark Crispin MILLER's daily overview of people that "died suddenly" all over the world, consisting of the announcements as published in regional/national newspaper and orbituaries.  

[Red Phoenix]

10 hours ago, gargamon said:

Googling is research to people who don't know what research is. 

OK, so if I put on a white lab-coat and do a Google (or preferably a less biased search-engine) query while in my lab, then it suddenly becomes 'research'?  Ridiculous nonsense.

[gamb00ler]

43 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

OK, so if I put on a white lab-coat and do a Google (or preferably a less biased search-engine) query while in my lab, then it suddenly becomes 'research'?  Ridiculous nonsense.

You're not even pointing your weapon (mind) in the right direction.

Try again!

 

Googling is background reading... always has been..... always will be.

 

Research takes place at the edge of knowledge not in some bunker well away from the front.

Edited October 11, 2023 by gamb00ler

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

Wow, you found a December 2021 newspaper article!   

TIP: Check out Mark Crispin MILLER's daily overview of people that "died suddenly" all over the world, consisting of the announcements as published in regional/national newspaper and orbituaries.  

Oh dear, it went straight over your head as it did with another poster. The point of the post was that they would still be alive today in 2023 had they not been entrapped by the cult. The HermanCainAwards are still going strong

 

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

If only they hadn't been in the cult..............

 

[Red Phoenix]

24 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Googling is background reading... always has been..... always will be.

Research takes place at the edge of knowledge not in some bunker well away from the front.

Your definition of 'research' limits the scope considerably, when it is confined to the 'edge of knowledge'.  And not even addressing how the 'genuine researchers' arrived at that edge. 

 

"Do your own research" does not mean that you need to become a content-matter expert exploring the latest developments in your field of choice. 

It simply means having an open critical mind, that keeps questioning (and searching) and does not blindly accept any information it is fed.  Stating that 'the science is settled' and that there is no need to question it, is the most unscientific approach possible. 

 

[Red Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oh dear, it went straight over your head as it did with another poster. The point of the post was that they would still be alive today in 2023 had they not been entrapped by the cult. The HermanCainAwards are still going strong

As I wrote > Check out Mark Crispin MILLER's daily overview of people that "died suddenly" all over the world, consisting of the announcements as published in regional/national newspaper and obituaries.  

The common denominator of all these 'sudden deaths' is indeed that they were entrapped (or forced) by a cult.  But it is totally different cult than the one you are referring to. 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

As I wrote > Check out Mark Crispin MILLER's daily overview of people that "died suddenly" all over the world, consisting of the announcements as published in regional/national newspaper and obituaries.  

The common denominator of all these 'sudden deaths' is indeed that they were entrapped (or forced) by a cult.  But it is totally different cult than the one you are referring to. 

No thanks, another purveyor of conspiracy theories:

 

Mark Crispin Miller (born 1949) is a professor of media studies at New York University.[1] He has promoted conspiracy theories about U.S. presidential elections, the September 11 attacks and the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting as well as misinformation about COVID-19 and vaccines.