help me fix this mess (sewer ,waste water system)

[mateusz1945]

So house has 2 bathrooms , kitchen, bar sink and laundry. I took this picture when it was built. I thought people that "did that"  know what they were doing.
So fast forward 2 years later during rainy season showers and toilets drain slow but still  works. But this year kitchen sink water comes up and drains super slow... sometimes clogs and stays there for hours. . Mind you only 2 people live in this house.

 

Here is what I think : I need another concrete well , everything reconnected the way it make sense and maybe grease trap for kitchen sink. I don't really know who to ask and hire but this time i really have to know that its "done right" So dear members of community please advice

[jvs]

The problem is the overflow can not sink into the ground when there is a lot of rain.Probably not a pipe issue but only a rainy season issue?

You could make your overflow area bigger or put coarse sand or gravel near the pipes.

That is what we did here and no more problem (except when it is flooded).

 

[mateusz1945]

9 minutes ago, jvs said:

The problem is the overflow can not sink into the ground when there is a lot of rain.Probably not a pipe issue but only a rainy season issue?

You could make your overflow area bigger or put coarse sand or gravel near the pipes.

That is what we did here and no more problem (except when it is flooded).

 

we are already on high ground  see neighbor below in the background. i think we really should have 2 of those concrete wells but builder skipped this step

[jvs]

27 minutes ago, mateusz1945 said:

we are already on high ground  see neighbor below in the background. i think we really should have 2 of those concrete wells but builder skipped this step

It is not how high the ground is but how high the water table is compared to the bottom of you sink tank.You could try a so called French drainage system.This should not cost a lot and is easy to do.Just installing another cement tank will not solve the problem i think.The cement tank does not have a bottom in it and when the soil becomes water logged your system will back up.

 

[xtrnuno41]

And where do you put a vent pipe(s)? 

On concrete well? Pressure off from sewer system. From toilets and sinks, you do have vented siphons.

 

Like you have a bottle filled with water, put it upside down and water comes out not that easy. You put a straw in it and you ll have a rapid flow. Venting. Or a hose filled with water, put your thumb on one side and water will stay in, lift your thumb and water comes out, venting.

If you dont vent then the water could slowly or not get out, depending on slope of pipes and their size. Also toilets, but mostly the pipes are wide to have good flush. But all pipes not to put horizontal, but with a 2 degree down slope to lowest waste point. 

 

Why the toilet bathroom 2 is connected with shower floor bath sink 1 and then running off to concrete well?

You see a T joint and is connected to toilet 2. Not logical. Some kind of venting then? Makes no sense as the pipes are all horizontal. And in this way toilet outlet is not only going to septic. Most of it could be going direct to concrete wel.

2 toilets should go direct to septic and not a possibility to by pass on another drain and end in concrete well.

 

So at least, should take out the T- joint (place a bend and cap toilet 2 out), so all your <deleted> is going to septic.

Also toilet 1 can go to concrete well and not to septic, depending on slope of pipes.

Pipes would be under a slope to the septic.

Venting is important to have a good flow of waist water. Every waste water pipe should be with a vent if they are not in the same waste pipe. IF not and it works, ok, but you know where it comes from when it doesnt work. Lack of vent.

[mateusz1945]

1 hour ago, xtrnuno41 said:

And where do you put a vent pipe(s)? 

On concrete well? Pressure off from sewer system. From toilets and sinks, you do have vented siphons.

 

 

 

there is a vent pipe installed on black plastic tank that is all.

toilet 2 is not connected to smaller pipe next to it. Just appear so in this picture.
angles of slope are small I do not like that....  i agree that T connect is bad it should be Y connected to toilet 1 and 2
I saw some people have 2 concrete  wells separate for overflow septic and separate for gray water.... i don't know if that would my  fix problem but seems it would give more area for water do dissipate into ground . and at least that would give me opportunity to fix connection to septic tank.

Edited October 15, 2023 by mateusz1945

[mateusz1945]

i like the idea of French drain around the  house  to get rid off excess roof water that might help with my problem but i still feel that this septic system should work better and is messed up

[MangoKorat]

I can't really comment on your problem as I've no idea how Thai systems work.  I tried to get a Thai to explain where the soakaway is at my Thai home but he had no idea what I meant.  I'm not on mains sewerage in the UK and I've installed several systems over the years - they are very simple.  Some more modern systems are 'aerated' using an air pump to promote bacterial growth in what was called the 'septic' tank but they are still very simple.  Tank + Soakaway - waste matter including solids enters the tank, rots down.  The tank has a set level and an overflow discharges water only to an outlet which is piped to the soakaway. If the soakaway is correctly built, it does what it says on the tin but it may be necessary for the soakaway to be very long/wide in heavy clay areas.

 

Provided you do the pipework correctly the soakaway is the hardest part to get right - everything else is straighforward.  In theory septic tank systems should rarely need emptying as if there is good bacterial growth, that will constantly eat away the solids. The water that comes out of the overflow should be almost clear if the tank is doing its job. Unfortunately modern detergents and bleaches damage bacterial growth which in simple terms mean the tank will need emptying more often.

 

Older systems where it was not possible to provide a soakaway were known as cesspits. They had a bigger tank that was simply a storage facility and thus needed emptying regularly.

 

I'm not really sure how the Thai systems work - maybe they are a hybrid of the two?

 

If I have any comment to make on the photos of your system that you have supplied its that T junctions should never be used in sewerage systems - swept bends, swept according to the direction of travel should always be used.  Seeing your pipework, I understand why the Thai's say don't throw toilet paper down the loo.  T's are just asking for a blockage - they also make it very difficult to get drainage rods down to unblock the system.

 

I refuse to have a disgusting bin full of dirty toilet paper in my toilet and when I build a new house, as I will be doing before too long, I will be installing a UK style system with swept bends and a full herringbone style gravel soakaway as I will have the luxury of enough land to accommodate that.  Sink and washing machine wastes will have their own mini system to minimise the amount of problems 

caused by poor bacterial growth due to detergents and bleaches in the main system.

Edited October 15, 2023 by MangoKorat

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I'm not really sure how the Thai systems work - maybe they are a hybrid of the two?

Septic tank for toilets.

Sinks, showers, washing machines to soakaway or grey water drain. 

 

No detergents or bleaches should ever enter the toilet.

 

From your photo it all looks connected correctly, so the problem is either a blocked sink pipe, or a soakaway that doesn't soak away.

 

Just had to dig my sink pipe out, so many 90deg bends (7) the steel snake couldn't get own it. Now it only has 2 bends.

Edited October 16, 2023 by BritManToo

[MangoKorat]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Septic tank for toilets.

Sinks, showers, washing machines to soakaway or grey water drain. 

That's what I plan at my new house. I'm pretty sure that the system at my current place sends everything into the same tank.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

That's what I plan at my new house. I'm pretty sure that the system at my current place sends everything into the same tank.

Nope, yours is connected correctly.

The grey water outlet from the septic tank connects to the waste water drain which is entirely correct. Don't see a breather pipe, but that won't cause your problem.

 

Have you run a steel snake down the kitchen waste pipe? That's the usual problem, partially or fully blocked kitchen drain pipe. 200bht(ish) for a cheap snake on Lazada.

Edited October 16, 2023 by BritManToo

[MangoKorat]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nope, yours is connected correctly.

The grey water outlet from the septic tank connects to the waste water drain which is entirely correct.

Have you run a steel snake down the kitchen waste pipe? That's the usual problem, partially or fully blocked kitchen drain pipe. 200bht(ish) for a cheap snake on Lazada.

It may be correct as per previous thinking but at my new place I don't want detergents and bleaches entering the septic tank - if indeed I have a septic tank.

 

I have never uncovered the entire pipe run and there is no cover to remove on my tank to check on where things go currently - I just suspect that everything goes directly into the septic tank.  All I have in the garden is a concrete pad and a vent - I presume the vent doubles up as the place where the tank is emptied through.

 

I've never needed to unblock my system but from what I've seen in the suspended ceiling, the toilet outlets will use 90 degree T's instead of swept bends.  The previous owner had some problems I believe as he warned me not to put paper down the toilet - I do and always will. Getting Thai people to do that is impossible unless I remove the bins.

[donx]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Don't see a breather pipe, but that won't cause your problem.

I'm wondering if you are responding to the wrong poster. The OP is mateusz1945 who provided to photo of the pipes. MangoKorat has only posted in text about his situation.

[tandor]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:00 PM, mateusz1945 said:

So house has 2 bathrooms , kitchen, bar sink and laundry. I took this picture when it was built. I thought people that "did that"  know what they were doing.
So fast forward 2 years later during rainy season showers and toilets drain slow but still  works. But this year kitchen sink water comes up and drains super slow... sometimes clogs and stays there for hours. . Mind you only 2 people live in this house.

 

Here is what I think : I need another concrete well , everything reconnected the way it make sense and maybe grease trap for kitchen sink. I don't really know who to ask and hire but this time i really have to know that its "done right" So dear members of community please advice

IMO all your grey water should be going to a street drain or a separate drainage well..the septic should be entirely separate. Good luck with it.

[tandor]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:05 AM, MangoKorat said:

I can't really comment on your problem as I've no idea how Thai systems work.  I tried to get a Thai to explain where the soakaway is at my Thai home but he had no idea what I meant.  I'm not on mains sewerage in the UK and I've installed several systems over the years - they are very simple.  Some more modern systems are 'aerated' using an air pump to promote bacterial growth in what was called the 'septic' tank but they are still very simple.  Tank + Soakaway - waste matter including solids enters the tank, rots down.  The tank has a set level and an overflow discharges water only to an outlet which is piped to the soakaway. If the soakaway is correctly built, it does what it says on the tin but it may be necessary for the soakaway to be very long/wide in heavy clay areas.

 

Provided you do the pipework correctly the soakaway is the hardest part to get right - everything else is straighforward.  In theory septic tank systems should rarely need emptying as if there is good bacterial growth, that will constantly eat away the solids. The water that comes out of the overflow should be almost clear if the tank is doing its job. Unfortunately modern detergents and bleaches damage bacterial growth which in simple terms mean the tank will need emptying more often.

 

Older systems where it was not possible to provide a soakaway were known as cesspits. They had a bigger tank that was simply a storage facility and thus needed emptying regularly.

 

I'm not really sure how the Thai systems work - maybe they are a hybrid of the two?

 

If I have any comment to make on the photos of your system that you have supplied its that T junctions should never be used in sewerage systems - swept bends, swept according to the direction of travel should always be used.  Seeing your pipework, I understand why the Thai's say don't throw toilet paper down the loo.  T's are just asking for a blockage - they also make it very difficult to get drainage rods down to unblock the system.

 

I refuse to have a disgusting bin full of dirty toilet paper in my toilet and when I build a new house, as I will be doing before too long, I will be installing a UK style system with swept bends and a full herringbone style gravel soakaway as I will have the luxury of enough land to accommodate that.  Sink and washing machine wastes will have their own mini system to minimise the amount of problems 

caused by poor bacterial growth due to detergents and bleaches in the main system.

i would get a friend o/seas to mail you some 30 and 90 deg. bends with IOs so you can access in event of a blockage, same applies for 3 or 4" drain Ts

[freeworld]

Those 90 deg bends for the sewer pipes would be a big problem.

 

The outlet of the black septic tank looks lower than the connection at that concrete ring soakaway?

 

Where does the water drain to?

Edited October 18, 2023 by freeworld

[Skipalongcassidy]

Couple of things... water and waste both need to flow downhill... use a laser level to see if that is happening... from the source all the way to the release point.  Second... 90 degree bends are a no no for sewer pipes... 45's should be the max.... if you are putting grease down the drain from the kitchen sink, stop doing that... it gels in the pipes and clogs them

[Cake Monster]

 I do not know of a single property in Thailand that is correctly managed for waste water

Thais do not understand the principle of the Anaerobic waste tank, and put the waste water from the showers / laundry room into them

This kills the Bacteria on which the tanks work, and as an add on, there is no overflow of treated water taken to a ground soak away.

Sure these tanks will work for a while when plumbed in like this, but after a period of time they will cease to work as the Bacteria that breaks down the waste in the Tank is killed off by detergents Etc

There is no cheap rectification for this problem that I am aware of

[brianthainess]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:00 PM, mateusz1945 said:

Here is what I think : I need another concrete well

You are absolutely correct; Bathrooms into one, kitchen laundry into the other. But even in heavy continual rain for days, my toilet can take a few seconds to drain. edit; and of course the black toiled tank is vented with the pipe running right up tp the eaves. My dad always called it the "Stink pipe"

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by brianthainess

[brianthainess]

25 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

I do not know of a single property in Thailand that is correctly managed for waste water

Well mine is.

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, tandor said:

IMO all your grey water should be going to a street drain

Seriously ? 

[The Theory]

you definitely need to stop grease (need a box for cleaning grease) from kitchen to that well (drain hole), no wonder water won't be sucked in the ground after 2 years and getting worse.

If you have space (if possible) it would be better to dig one more well. 
don't forget adding bacteria to the toilet tank periodically. 

On 10/15/2023 at 7:00 PM, mateusz1945 said:

maybe grease trap for kitchen sink

Edited October 18, 2023 by The Theory

[The Theory]

4 hours ago, tandor said:

IMO all your grey water should be going to a street drain or a separate drainage well..the septic should be entirely separate

Right, If there is any street sewer available. 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, The Theory said:

don't forget adding bacteria to the toilet tank periodically. 

And poo isn't full of bacteria?

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, The Theory said:

Right, If there is any street sewer available. 

Which is rare outside a city center.

[tandor]

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Seriously ? 

not knowing where the OPs home is situated; most moobahns have deep drains and formed shallow gutters to take off any runoff from rainwater, if that's the case you can put your own drain box inside your wall, run all your grey water pipes into that, then one outlet into the street drain. If he is more remote then a second 3 ring drainage well would be ample; however i would not be mixing a septic tank overflow with grey water. All the Thai builders i know and have dealt with do this. I can give you my builders' contact details if you or OP wishes.

 

[VocalNeal]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:02 AM, mateusz1945 said:

i like the idea of French drain around the  house  to get rid off excess roof water that might help with my problem but i still feel that this septic system should work better and is messed up

Bung some septic tank enzyme down the toilet (blue packet) and some grease-eating enzyme down the sink (green packet). Toilet blue one definitely at BigC Mini. Green one you maye need to go to HomePro. Both will be on Lazada.

 

Won't help lower the water table but every little helps.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by VocalNeal

[Stevemercer]

Our kitchen sink started draining slowly this year (despite periodic cleaning of the U-Bend under the sink). The problem ended up being a blockage in the drain pipe before it entered the concrete drainage pit. After digging everything up (as the OP has done) I could see that no water was flowing into the cement bore when the kitchen tap was on.

 

I suggest doing something similar while you have the pipes all exposed to see where everything is going (or not going).

 

Because of several 90 degree bends, I ended up cutting the drainage pipe in two places until I could get the hose in, clear the blockage, and get the water flowing back into the cement bore. I then had to use plastic sleeves to reconnect the pipe. Messy looking, but it is all buried again now.

 

Another issue was flooding caused by the neighbours infilling at least a metre higher than us causing water to infiltrate through the top of the cement bores during heavy rain. I ended up digging a drain along our fence to keep most of the excess water away.

 

Our house has three bathrooms and 6 of those buried bottomless concrete bore things (3 septic and 3 grey water), plus a kitchen sink and washing machine discharge. Unfortunately the kitchen sink and washing machine both flow into the grey water tank for the busiest bathroom. This tank is at the lowest end of our property and cops the most flood water as well. Meaning it is nearly always full during the rainy season and the surrounding ground boggy. The overflow now leaks out the top of the cement tank into the drainage channel I dug along the fence. Luckily there is enough gradient to take the worst of the overflow away from the house and into a depression.

 

 

[MangoKorat]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:12 AM, tandor said:

i would get a friend o/seas to mail you some 30 and 90 deg. bends with IOs so you can access in event of a blockage, same applies for 3 or 4" drain Ts

That would require inspection chambers at each bend and its not necessarty really - if swept bends are used, drain rods will clear any blockages.  I use them in the UK for a pipe run that is 30m from the nearest inspection chamber to the septic tank, 2 swept bends involved and they work fine.  However, if swept bends are used, blockages are rare. I've had to clear 2 in 15 years, both caused by cooking oil/fat.

[mateusz1945]

Ok guys thanks for advice it seems clear to me that i have to:
-Add another gray water concrete well

-get rid of T connections 

-get grease trap  for kitchen sink
 

i guess if i have a clear plan ( and parts) i should find somebody to just follow the instructions and help with labor.