At least 16 feared dead in mass shootings in US city of Lewiston, Maine

[Chris Daley]

So glad I don't live in North America.  That place is a festering pit.

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

There are 20 million (or more) AR15’s in circulation in the USA. In the majority of mass shootings, the AR15 is the gun that is used.

The gun that is used for what? Again, what I said was: "...the vast majority of gun deaths in the US are handgun related."

 

Do you have anything at all that counters that? Certainly not in the article you linked.

14 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-20-million-ar-15-style-rifles-in-circulation-2022-5?international=true&r=US&IR=T
 

Still think I’m talking cr*p?

 

Yes, I know you're talking cr*p because it's all you have.  Please provide something that shows my statement to be incorrect. Just regurgitating the same leftist talking points ad nauseum is not going to do it. 

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Okay, then you tell me why lawmakers are blind to what the (vast) majority of the American people want: stricter gun laws.

You first have to show that the vast majority of Americans want stricter gun laws. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

 

14 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Most people are murdered with handguns, not rifles.  Few people are killed in mass shootings, <60 in 2022, see graph above.  About 1 a week, in a nation of 370M people.

 

About the same number of people that die on Thai roads, in 2 or even 1 day at times.

 

29,000+ people died falling in their home in 2021.  Much more dangerous to be home apparently.

 

Nice headliner, but try putting it in perspective.

 

Indeed. Rifles (including what people foolishly call "assault weapons") account for only about 3% of firearm murders. The vast majority of firearm murders are committed with handguns. 

 

Unfortunately, far and away the majority of gun death victims are black, which the left generally ignores, because the data goes against their narrative.

 

When a bunch of white people are killed with an "assault weapon", or when blacks are killed by whites, that fits their narrative and they go to town. I think it a good bet they'll again make banning "assault weapons" a big issue in the next election and then (again) do nothing about it what they can, then of course they can continue to blame the evil Republicans and the NRA for all the deaths. 

 

It is worth noting that you see the number of "mass shootings" quoted as five or six hundred. What they don't want to tell you is that those numbers include shoot outs during robberies and other crimes, and they never seem to include the number of deaths. 

 

It is also interesting that the zealots love to quote the number of gun deaths, but never mention that typically over half of gun deaths are suicide, and they never mention that gun deaths (suicide and murder rates) are similar to what were fifty years ago. 

 

 

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

 

 

 

[LosLobo]

18 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Mass shootings are good for headliners, and so many more things to worry about than a stranger/nutter shooting you.  You have 4-5X more chance of dying, by simply falling in your home in the USA.

 

Let that one sink in.

 

Although you previously suggested that this subject has been 'done to death', you still remain a 'top poster' here.

 

Your comments here and elsewhere:

 

‘Chance are being shot, let alone killed by a stranger with a firearm, and almost nil.
So many more things to worry about than a stranger/nutter shooting you. You have 4-5X more chance of dying, by simply falling in your home in the USA.
About the same number of people that die on Thai roads, in 2 or even 1 day at times.
29,000+ people died falling in their home in 2021.  Much more dangerous to be home apparently'.

 

appear to be an attempt to downplay and deflect from the seriousness and tragedy of the outcomes of the US’s preoccupation with guns.

 

What is notable is that you have ignored that the major cause of death with the 1-18 year demographic is gun death, and not home or road travel.

 

'Guns are the leading cause of death for US children and teens, since surpassing car accidents in 2020. Firearms accounted for nearly 19% of childhood deaths (ages 1-18) in 2021'.

 

Guns lead as most common cause of death for children and teens in the US | CNN

 

For adults, homes and road travel are considered existential in most civilized contemporary societies.

 

Guns are not!

 

These societies have progressed beyond the 18th century (i.e.  post-1791; when the 2nd Amendment was enacted) and have come to understand that guns are fundamentally incompatible with and are anathema to the preservation of life.

 

You also continually suggest that the US has a population of 370M people.

 

It seems that you can time travel. Having been stuck in the era of 1791 with the 2nd Amendment, you now appear to have leapfrogged the present to 2053 for US population statistics.

 

‘U.S. population increases from 336 million people in 2023 to 373 million people in 2053’.

 

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58612

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by LosLobo

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

 

Although you previously suggested that this subject has been 'done to death', you still remain a 'top poster' here.

 

Your comments here and elsewhere:

 

‘Chance are being shot, let alone killed by a stranger with a firearm, and almost nil.
So many more things to worry about than a stranger/nutter shooting you. You have 4-5X more chance of dying, by simply falling in your home in the USA.
About the same number of people that die on Thai roads, in 2 or even 1 day at times.
29,000+ people died falling in their home in 2021.  Much more dangerous to be home apparently'.

 

appear to be an attempt to downplay and deflect from the seriousness and tragedy of the outcomes of the US’s preoccupation with guns.

 

What is notable is that you have ignored that the major cause of death with the 1-18 year demographic is gun death, and not home or road travel.

 

'Guns are the leading cause of death for US children and teens, since surpassing car accidents in 2020. Firearms accounted for nearly 19% of childhood deaths (ages 1-18) in 2021'.

 

Guns lead as most common cause of death for children and teens in the US | CNN

 

For adults, homes and road travel are considered existential in most civilized contemporary societies.

 

Guns are not!

 

These societies have progressed beyond the 18th century (i.e.  post-1791; when the 2nd Amendment was enacted) and have come to understand that guns are fundamentally incompatible with and are anathema to the preservation of life.

 

You also continually suggest that the US has a population of 370M people.

 

It seems that you can time travel. Having been stuck in the era of 1791 with the 2nd Amendment, you now appear to have leapfrogged the present to 2053 for US population statistics.

 

‘U.S. population increases from 336 million people in 2023 to 373 million people in 2053’.

 

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58612

 

Dead children are always most always a tragedy, but it is worth noting that CNN firearms are the leading cause of death for ages 1-18, but they do not differentiate between gun murders and gun suicides. Why do you suppose that is? 

 

Since 1990, overdose deaths of children ages 1-19 were up 250%, while firearm deaths were down 25%.

 

"Truth is not a left-wing value."

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Yellowtail
sp

[LosLobo]

37 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Dead children are always most always a tragedy, but it is worth noting that CNN firearms are the leading cause of death for ages 1-18, but they do not differentiate between gun murders and gun suicides. Why do you suppose that is? 

 

Since 1990, overdose deaths of children ages 1-19 were up 250%, while firearm deaths were down 25%.

 

"Truth is not a left-wing value."

 

Perhaps to most, including the suffering families, the fact that it was murder or suicide is irrelevant.

 

I agree that the death of children is a tragedy. The usual offering of ‘hearts, minds, and prayers’ from Republicans, instead of any positive action to stop the perpetuation of the abomination that is the Second Amendment, is more of a tragedy.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by LosLobo

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

You first have to show that the vast majority of Americans want stricter gun laws. 

 

 

There are plenty of polls that show most Americans want stricter gun laws.

This one: 71% of Americans want stricter gun laws, including about half of Republicans, the vast majority of Democrats and a majority in those in gun-owning households:

https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-covid-health-chicago-c912ecc5619e925c5ea7447d36808715

 

This one (see points 7 and 8): 61% say it’s too easy to legally obtain a gun, and 58% favor stricter gun laws:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/
 

 

[rudi49jr]

13 hours ago, morrobay said:

Ask these liberal SAPS in governments where some whackos civil rights are more important than pubic safety 

 

11 hours ago, morrobay said:

Have no idea what this one liner nonsense is about. Let me elaborate on my post: This whacko like alot of others who go one these shootings was known to law enforcement and even advertised his intent. So his residence should have been raided and guns seized. For starters.

 

I agree that this guy should have had his guns taken away from him, because of his mental health issues that were known to law enforcement.

But what does that have to with your first comment about liberal saps in government?

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

There are plenty of polls that show most Americans want stricter gun laws.

This one: 71% of Americans want stricter gun laws, including about half of Republicans, the vast majority of Democrats and a majority in those in gun-owning households:

https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-covid-health-chicago-c912ecc5619e925c5ea7447d36808715

 

This one (see points 7 and 8): 61% say it’s too easy to legally obtain a gun, and 58% favor stricter gun laws:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/
 

 

I think you are not being completely honest. From your link:

 

1. Federal law already requires background checks. Could they be improved? Sure, people like Hunter Biden (as an example everyone knows) can just lie on the applicant and get a gun. The problem is not with background checks, they are already mandatory, the problem is confirming the information provided by the applicant. 

 

2. Convicted felons are already barred by federal law from possessing handguns, and many states (like Florida) bar convicted felons from possessing any firearm. 

 

3. Federal law prohibits anyone under 21 from buying handguns, which are responsible for the vast majority of gun crime. You can buy long guns at 18. It is interesting that it's often the same people that think kids do not have the maturity to buy a gun until they're 21, think they're mature enough to have their penis cut off at 13. 

 

4. So a ban on the "scary looking" rifles with the black stocks and muzzle-brakes (which are responsible for less than 3% of gun deaths) but shotguns and semi-automatics with nice walnut stocks (that are just as deadly) will still be available, and of course there are the millions of AR15s that are already out there to contend with. 

 

5. It is interesting that while you claim "the vast majority" of Americans want stricter gun laws, only 57% do not support allowing people to carry guns in public WITHOUT A PERMIT, while 29% support it. 

 

 

 

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think you are not being completely honest. From your link:

 

1. Federal law already requires background checks. Could they be improved? Sure, people like Hunter Biden (as an example everyone knows) can just lie on the applicant and get a gun. The problem is not with background checks, they are already mandatory, the problem is confirming the information provided by the applicant. 

 

2. Convicted felons are already barred by federal law from possessing handguns, and many states (like Florida) bar convicted felons from possessing any firearm. 

 

3. Federal law prohibits anyone under 21 from buying handguns, which are responsible for the vast majority of gun crime. You can buy long guns at 18. It is interesting that it's often the same people that think kids do not have the maturity to buy a gun until they're 21, think they're mature enough to have their penis cut off at 13. 

 

4. So a ban on the "scary looking" rifles with the black stocks and muzzle-brakes (which are responsible for less than 3% of gun deaths) but shotguns and semi-automatics with nice walnut stocks (that are just as deadly) will still be available, and of course there are the millions of AR15s that are already out there to contend with. 

 

5. It is interesting that while you claim "the vast majority" of Americans want stricter gun laws, only 57% do not support allowing people to carry guns in public WITHOUT A PERMIT, while 29% support it. 

 

 

 

Wow, and you accuse me of being disingenuous.

 

You had to take a swipe at Hunter Biden, didn’t you? Couldn’t resist yourself, could you? I’m sure he’s the only spoilt rich kid who ever lied on a gun application. I really wonder why all MAGA folk have such a hard on for Hunter Biden, though. Don’t you think the country is facing far more pressing matters? 
 

And you couldn’t even get the comparison right between the age transgender kids can start their treatment and the legal age to own a gun.

 

First of all, the age a transgender child can start their treatment is 14, not 13. And it’s the start of the treatment, the actual operation is still quite a while down the road, often years.

 

And it’s not as if a child wakes up one day and decides to be a boy instead of a girl, or the other way around, and the next day treatment is started, and one week later they have the operation. This is a lengthy process, and the child gets counseling and psychological evaluations. 
 

Also, this is someone deciding over their own body, their own life, they don’t harm anyone, except maybe themselves sometimes. But when you own a gun, you can harm and/or kill (many) others. So your analogy is completely wrong. And by the way, do you really care about those transgender children? Or is it just another stick to beat ‘the left’ with for you? 

[Social Media]

SHOOTER FOUND DEAD !

 

 

 

[Tug]

I’m glad that defective offed himself before someone else got killed!

[jvs]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:19 PM, KhunLA said:

All your comparisons are apples & oranges. 100s of millions of firearms, legal & illegal in USA.  Open borders where a million+ cross every year, and they can't even stop them.  

 

You can't stop the flow of guns, so you won't be stopping shootings.  Talk all you want, all the laws they have now have done nothing.  Every aspect of the 'system' is a failure.  Until that changes, nothing will.

 

If I lived there, I'd have a firearm, probably never need, as 30 adult ish years there, and had, but never needed.  It is what it is.  People have accepted it, as they appear to not want to change it, or they would IMHO

 

Chance are being shot, let alone killed by a stranger with a firearm, and almost nil.  Probably why nobody cares to change anything in USA.

 

Mass shootings are good for headliners, and so many more things to worry about than a stranger/nutter shooting you.  You have 4-5X more chance of dying, by simply falling in your home in the USA.

 

Let that one sink in.

Wow!

More illegal weapons are going out of the US then are coming in,that is a fact!

The rest of your post is very difficult to understand.You are pro guns but admit the current system is failing.

Tell the family of the deceased that it is just bad luck for them.So many people there simply falling in their home and dying!

Just bad luck right?

 

[Hanaguma]

And to add another sad and ironic note to the story, the Sparetime bowling alley where he committed his first murders was a "gun free zone". They even had a sign in their window to that effect.  Now, if I was a nutter who wanted to kill people, a place that is a self-declared gun free zone would be high on my list. Chances are that responsible gun owners would leave their guns at home or in the car, which means that I (the nutter) faced an unarmed and defenceless group of victims.

[jerrymahoney]

Stephen King on Mass Shootings: We’re Out of Things to Say
Oct. 27, 2023

 

Mr. King is the author of numerous works of fiction. He lives in Maine.

 

There is no solution to the gun problem, and little more to write, because Americans are addicted to firearms.

 

Representative Jared Golden, from Maine’s Second Congressional District, has reversed course and says he will now support outlawing military-style semiautomatic rifles like the one used in the killing of 18 people in Lewiston this week. But neither the House nor the Senate is likely to pass such a law, and if Congress actually did, the Supreme Court, as it now exists, would almost certainly rule it unconstitutional.

 

Every mass shooting is a gut-punch; with every one, unimaginative people say, “I never thought it could happen here,” but such things can and will happen anywhere and everywhere in this locked-and-loaded country. The guns are available and the targets are soft.

 

When rapid-fire guns are difficult to get, things improve, but I see no such improvement in the future. Americans love guns, and appear willing to pay the price in blood.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/opinion/stephen-king-maine-shootings.html

 

 

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

And to add another sad and ironic note to the story, the Sparetime bowling alley where he committed his first murders was a "gun free zone". They even had a sign in their window to that effect.  Now, if I was a nutter who wanted to kill people, a place that is a self-declared gun free zone would be high on my list. Chances are that responsible gun owners would leave their guns at home or in the car, which means that I (the nutter) faced an unarmed and defenceless group of victims.

Yeah, it's like a "Welcome Shooters" sign. 

[Yellowtail]

19 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Wow, and you accuse me of being disingenuous.

I notice you did not address any of the points I made, so yes. 

19 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

You had to take a swipe at Hunter Biden, didn’t you? Couldn’t resist yourself, could you? I’m sure he’s the only spoilt rich kid who ever lied on a gun application. I really wonder why all MAGA folk have such a hard on for Hunter Biden, though. Don’t you think the country is facing far more pressing matters? 

I used Hunter Biden because everyone knows of him, and that he obtained a gun illegally by merely lying on the form. You seem think adding more question to a form people can lie on will save lives, I do not. 

 

I don't know why all the commies have a hard-on for Trump, but here we are. 

 

19 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

And you couldn’t even get the comparison right between the age transgender kids can start their treatment and the legal age to own a gun.

 

First of all, the age a transgender child can start their treatment is 14, not 13. And it’s the start of the treatment, the actual operation is still quite a while down the road, often years.

 

And it’s not as if a child wakes up one day and decides to be a boy instead of a girl, or the other way around, and the next day treatment is started, and one week later they have the operation. This is a lengthy process, and the child gets counseling and psychological evaluations. 
 

Also, this is someone deciding over their own body, their own life, they don’t harm anyone, except maybe themselves sometimes. But when you own a gun, you can harm and/or kill (many) others. So your analogy is completely wrong. And by the way, do you really care about those transgender children? Or is it just another stick to beat ‘the left’ with for you? 

 

Looks like I was right. 

 

In any event, you go on a long diatribe, but nothing on the topic, do not say anything at all that counters any of my points. 

 

I care about all children, transgender children included, and I think they are being harmed by people like you, and in some cases their lives will be ruined. If I thought promoting transgenderism actually helping children, I would be all for it. 

 

It's always the same with people like you. You can't actually formulate an argument, so rather than argue what I've said, you attack me and say I don't care about children.

 

 

[rudi49jr]

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I don't know why all the commies have a hard-on for Trump, but here we are. 

You seem to harbor a deep hatred for ‘the left’, whatever that may mean to you. Like so many MAGA cult members, who call everyone they disagree with a communist, a socialist or a fascist, and sometimes even all three things at the same time. Which I don’t think is possible, but who am I?
FYI: there are hardly any ‘commies’ in the US, and certainly not in the government or law enforcement. If you think there are, maybe you should look up what a ‘commie’ really is.

And I can tell you exactly why ‘all the commies’ (your words) have a hard-on for Trump: because he’s been breaking the law for decades. If any ‘ordinary’ person had done what Trump has done, they would have gone to jail. For some reason, Trump has (so far) gotten away with it.

But many people (not just commies) have a hard-on for Trump most of all because he incited an insurrection and, with his cronies who are also on trial now (and flipping on Trump one by one), tried very hard to overthrow the result of a legitimate election, just because his ego couldn’t handle the fact that he lost. And not by a little bit.
He’s been whining about it ever since. In fact he already started whining about it months before the 2020 election, claiming that there was no way he could lose, and that the elections were rigged if he did lose. 

[rudi49jr]

52 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I care about all children, transgender children included, and I think they are being harmed by people like you, and in some cases their lives will be ruined. If I thought promoting transgenderism actually helping children, I would be all for it.

Please explain to me how I am (and people like me are) harming transgender children. I would really like to know. 
And you seem to think that transgenderism or homosexuality is something that can be promoted. That children can suddenly become gay or transgender or whatever because someone is promoting it? Seriously?

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

You seem to harbor a deep hatred for ‘the left’, whatever that may mean to you. Like so many MAGA cult members, who call everyone they disagree with a communist, a socialist or a fascist, and sometimes even all three things at the same time. Which I don’t think is possible, but who am I?
FYI: there are hardly any ‘commies’ in the US, and certainly not in the government or law enforcement. If you think there are, maybe you should look up what a ‘commie’ really is.

And I can tell you exactly why ‘all the commies’ (your words) have a hard-on for Trump: because he’s been breaking the law for decades. If any ‘ordinary’ person had done what Trump has done, they would have gone to jail. For some reason, Trump has (so far) gotten away with it.

But many people (not just commies) have a hard-on for Trump most of all because he incited an insurrection and, with his cronies who are also on trial now (and flipping on Trump one by one), tried very hard to overthrow the result of a legitimate election, just because his ego couldn’t handle the fact that he lost. And not by a little bit.
He’s been whining about it ever since. In fact he already started whining about it months before the 2020 election, claiming that there was no way he could lose, and that the elections were rigged if he did lose. 

How about we get back on topic? Uh, I think you have a little spittle in the in the corner of your mouth...

[jerrymahoney]

Maine police were alerted weeks ago about shooter’s threats

 

Updated 5:16 AM GMT+7, October 29, 2023

 

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre.

 

Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press that a statewide awareness alert was sent in mid-September to be on the lookout for Robert Card after the firearms instructor made threats against his base and fellow soldiers. But after stepped-up patrols of the base and a visit to Card’s home – neither of which turned up any sign of him – they moved on.

 

“We added extra patrols, we did that for about two weeks. ... The guy never showed up,” said Jack Clements, the police chief in Saco, home to the U.S. Army Reserve base where Card trained.

 

https://apnews.com/article/maine-guns-mass-shooting-lewiston-warnings-4d5066230b500c152a7dd0d3e4d13f1b

 

[Chris Daley]

[rudi49jr]

The National Rifle Association is out with a new ad featuring new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. In the ad, Johnson says he will block any attempts to impose universal background checks or waiting periods before someone can purchase a firearm.

 

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/speaker-johnson-will-oppose-gun-background-checks-or-waiting-periods

 

[placeholder]

Actually, there an entire dimension to this issue that I don't think has been addressed here. The conservative Supreme Court has ruled that the only gun control legislation that is legitimate  would have to find some counterpart in laws that existed before the 2nd Amendment was ratified.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/28/bruen-supreme-court-rahimi-00108285

So, were there laws that prohibited the mentally ill from possessing firearms back then? Or against people making threats?

There is renewed interest in this as a case is now making its way through the courts re a law that forbids such possession by those under domestic violence restraining orders. For that matter, do laws that forbid felons from having firearms find any precedent in 18th century law? What about background checks? Or age limitations? Will the supreme court overturn those laws as well if they have no appropriate historical precedent? 

Edited October 30, 2023 by placeholder

[Yellowtail]

Death rate for homicide in the U.S. 1950-2019 | Statista

Edited October 30, 2023 by Yellowtail