"War Is A Racket" For These 25 'Defense' Companies

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You can blame Nixon for the rise of China. He should have let them cook in their own stew instead of allowing them to join in the capitalist economy and thrash us in the ensuing move to make everything in China, from which the western working class has never recovered.

The way it was explained to me when I made the same comment  was , that China was coming regardless what.You cand expect a country with the size, resources an work ethic to stay down , unless it is kept down.So the idea was that by bringin it in the fold it would be a partner rather than a competitor. What they failed to consider is the collateral differences that are not conducive to western style capitalism.

[impulse]

19 hours ago, heybruce said:

There is a limit to how long a petro-state dedicating all available resources to weapons production can keep the economy going.  Also, Russia can't ramp up people production, other than by kidnapping Ukrainian children.  Eventually Russia will run out of ethnic minorities and prisoners to throw into the meat grinder and will have to start using the urban ethnic Russians that Putin has been trying to protect.  Let's see how that plays out.

 

You mean a petro state that exports tons and tons of grain and fertilizer, strategic metals like titanium, diamonds, and tier 1 military gear like Migs and Sukhoi's and AK's?  Said state being able to leverage all those strategic materials, along with their oil and gas, to upset world markets if they chose?

 

A state that has 4x the population of their adversary and all those petro $$$ to hire mercenaries from all over the world if needed?

 

Ukraine will run out of warm bodies long before Putin, no matter how fast the west feeds it weapons.  Which seems to be slower and slower...

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

The way it was explained to me when I made the same comment  was , that China was coming regardless what.You cand expect a country with the size, resources an work ethic to stay down , unless it is kept down.So the idea was that by bringin it in the fold it would be a partner rather than a competitor. What they failed to consider is the collateral differences that are not conducive to western style capitalism.

Mao was the west's biggest partner in keeping China in the dark ages with his Cultural Revolution, his making steel idiocy and by being responsible for murdering about 20 million Chinese.

Had Nixon not allowed China to look outwards, they likely would have had another civil war that may have eliminated the communist party or at least ruined China as a prospective industrial giant that now threatens all in the west.

[sirineou]

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Mao was the west's biggest partner in keeping China in the dark ages with his Cultural Revolution, his making steel idiocy and by being responsible for murdering about 20 million Chinese.

Had Nixon not allowed China to look outwards, they likely would have had another civil war that may have eliminated the communist party or at least ruined China as a prospective industrial giant that now threatens all in the west.

And four years later they were both out.

(nixon 72, Mao 76)

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

You mean a petro state that exports tons and tons of grain and fertilizer, strategic metals like titanium, diamonds, and tier 1 military gear like Migs and Sukhoi's and AK's?  Said state being able to leverage all those strategic materials, along with their oil and gas, to upset world markets if they chose?

 

A state that has 4x the population of their adversary and all those petro $$$ to hire mercenaries from all over the world if needed?

 

Ukraine will run out of warm bodies long before Putin, no matter how fast the west feeds it weapons.  Which seems to be slower and slower...

 

Would you prefer that I call Russia a commodities dependent state? 

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival.  Russian soldiers are fighting because they will be shot if they refuse to do so.  Let's see which side has the greatest will to resist.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, sirineou said:

And four years later they were both out.

(nixon 72, Mao 76)

Sadly, both died without being convicted of their crimes and spending their last days in a dark and smelly dungeon.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sadly, both died without being convicted of their crimes and spending their last days in a dark and smelly dungeon.

Can you think of a major power leader who would not have swung from a tree had the other side won? 

If ofcourse it was the other sides interest for such swinging to occur. 

 

[impulse]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:59 PM, heybruce said:

Would you prefer that I call Russia a commodities dependent state? 

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival.  Russian soldiers are fighting because they will be shot if they refuse to do so.  Let's see which side has the greatest will to resist.

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival.

 

I keep on seeing that, and I keep on seeing comparisons of Putin with Hitler.  And I would ask you, to the average Ukrainian soldier dying at the front, what's the difference between being ruled by corrupt officials in Kiev or by corrupt officials in Moscow?  

 

Hitler waged a war of ethnic cleansing.  His goal (stated in Mein Kampf) was to displace or enslave all the sub-humans to the East.  That was a fight for survival. 

 

Between Kiev and Moscow, it's a war of "who gets to keep the fruits of corruption" and the average citizen's life probably won't be affected very much regardless of whose flag they fly.  (Which, BTW, is typical of thousands of years of Euro wars between the inbred rulers, fought and died by the little people who sacrificed much and benefitted little).  Comparing this war to Hitler's ethnic cleansing is nonsense.

That's why I'd just like to see the killing stopped.  Last year would be better, but now is the best we can hope for.  And that means compromise and drawing borders that aren't going to satisfy a lot of people.  The only ones benefitting from more deaths are the corrupt leaders, foreign warmongers, and the MIC.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

That's why I'd just like to see the killing stopped.  Last year would be better, but now is the best we can hope for.  And that means compromise and drawing borders that aren't going to satisfy a lot of people.  The only ones benefitting from more deaths are the corrupt leaders, foreign warmongers, and the MIC.

Well said. Seems some are so blinded to the reality of Ukrainian corruption that they seem to think this is a war in which the good elves  are fighting the orcs for real.

Meanwhile the 1% keep minting it which ever side wins.

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival.

 

I keep on seeing that, and I keep on seeing comparisons of Putin with Hitler.  And I would ask you, to the average Ukrainian soldier dying at the front, what's the difference between being ruled by corrupt officials in Kiev or by corrupt officials in Moscow?  

 

Hitler waged a war of ethnic cleansing.  His goal (stated in Mein Kampf) was to displace or enslave all the sub-humans to the East.  That was a fight for survival. 

 

Between Kiev and Moscow, it's a war of "who gets to keep the fruits of corruption" and the average citizen's life probably won't be affected very much regardless of whose flag they fly.  (Which, BTW, is typical of thousands of years of Euro wars between the inbred rulers, fought and died by the little people who sacrificed much and benefitted little).  Comparing this war to Hitler's ethnic cleansing is nonsense.

That's why I'd just like to see the killing stopped.  Last year would be better, but now is the best we can hope for.  And that means compromise and drawing borders that aren't going to satisfy a lot of people.  The only ones benefitting from more deaths are the corrupt leaders, foreign warmongers, and the MIC.

 

"Putin himself has repeatedly made clear that he denies Ukraine’s right to exist and is determined to extinguish Ukrainian statehood."  https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/peace-is-impossible-while-vladimir-putin-denies-ukraines-right-to-exist/

 

You don't consider that a fight for survival?

 

Ukraine has a legitimately elected government that is tackling corruption with popular support from its people.  Russia has none of those things, and doesn't want Ukraine to have them, or to even exist.

 

Seems like a fight for survival to me.

 

[RayC]

19 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival.

 

I keep on seeing that, and I keep on seeing comparisons of Putin with Hitler.  And I would ask you, to the average Ukrainian soldier dying at the front, what's the difference between being ruled by corrupt officials in Kiev or by corrupt officials in Moscow?  

 

You might have asked the same question of the average British Tommy in WW2. The answer is that they were (are) fighting for their freedom and liberty.

 

(Note: I am not discounting the role played by US and Commonwealth troops. It is simply that those countries would not have fallen to the Nazis).

 

19 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Hitler waged a war of ethnic cleansing.  His goal (stated in Mein Kampf) was to displace or enslave all the sub-humans to the East.  That was a fight for survival. 

 

Between Kiev and Moscow, it's a war of "who gets to keep the fruits of corruption" and the average citizen's life probably won't be affected very much regardless of whose flag they fly.  (Which, BTW, is typical of thousands of years of Euro wars between the inbred rulers, fought and died by the little people who sacrificed much and benefitted little).  Comparing this war to Hitler's ethnic cleansing is nonsense.

 

No one is suggesting that Putin is trying to exterminate a race but what he is trying to do is extinguish Ukrainian nationalism: There is also a parallel in Hitler's expansionism and that of Putin.

 

(My previous paragraph also refers).

 

19 hours ago, impulse said:

That's why I'd just like to see the killing stopped.  Last year would be better, but now is the best we can hope for.  And that means compromise and drawing borders that aren't going to satisfy a lot of people.  The only ones benefitting from more deaths are the corrupt leaders, foreign warmongers, and the MIC.

 

 

I think that everyone would like the hostilities to end asap. However, the simplest way for that to happen would be an immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine. Unfortunately, unless Putin can be removed this is unlikely, therefore the war will continue.

[RayC]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well said. Seems some are so blinded to the reality of Ukrainian corruption that they seem to think this is a war in which the good elves  are fighting the orcs for real.

Meanwhile the 1% keep minting it which ever side wins.

 

I doubt that many people who support Ukraine in this conflict are blind to the fact that corruption exists there. In the context of this war it is irrelevant. Ukraine is engaged in a war to preserve its' identity. The problem of corruption can be addressed later (hopefully, after an Ukrainian victory).

 

Likewise, I imagine that most people are well aware that companies involved in defence-related activities make good profits from a war.

[nausea]

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist"

Eisenhower

[heybruce]

18 hours ago, nausea said:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist"

Eisenhower

I would place the unwarranted influence of the military-industrial complex to be much less than that of social media, pundits screaming about wokeness, the medical lobby, the farm lobby....

 

In all fairness to Eisenhower, how could he have anticipated this?

[pegman]

On 11/13/2023 at 4:27 PM, heybruce said:

I would place the unwarranted influence of the military-industrial complex to be much less than that of social media, pundits screaming about wokeness, the medical lobby, the farm lobby....

 

In all fairness to Eisenhower, how could he have anticipated this?

Apparently there are some winners in this proxy war. 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/29/biden-admin-map-states-benefit-ukraine-aid-00129068