Fertility crisis set to halve Thailand’s population in six decades

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, sirineou said:

It might be a wonderful thing for the planet. and it might even be good for humanity, that's arguable , but it certainly not good for society , and our civilization in the short term. And by short term I mean several generations unstill we settle at the new normal. If we survive the transition. 

   Part of the development of our society  of the last 100 years or so has been fueled by, and in turn has fueled the hotkey puck of the population chart.  It was a bit of a vicious circle , but I don't like the term because it has negative connotations and I am not entirely sure that the results were negative. 

  We have not reached a negative growth rate yet and we are already seeing the effects because the effect is not widely spread. Some countries are declining in population , others are stable , and some have an increasing population.

So the effects is not only causing demographic concerns  with in countries, and the associated economic problems , It is also causing global demographic  concerns, that will fuel , and is fueling conflict. 

AI and automation might help alleviate some of the productivity issues, but without a system of equitable distribution of the wealth it creates it is sure to create additional problems. 

The next hundred years  will certainly be interesting and I am glad I will not be around to see them.

But I and concerned for my daughter , other family and friends who will. 

I Have structured my Union pension so that I receive less now but my wife gets' to keep 80% of it after I pass . My wife is a lot younger than me. (that should screw then LOL) but I am not sure how long my Trade Union  will be around, and the fund would be fully funded. She will also receive Social Security when she reaches age . again I am not sure how this changes will affect the viability of the SSI system. One positive for the US is that it is a desirable immigration destination , so that might help mitigate things in the US, but at the cost of other locations,

God it is going to create so many problems around the word I could write a 50 page paper on it. But I am sure I bored you enough already.  

Please excuse the typos I got to go to the farm while it is early and cool and don't have time to proofread this post. 

 

You bring up some valid points, there is no doubt that change and demographic shifts can be painful, but I think overall it will be a very positive thing. I personally think the biggest problem this planet faces right now is over population, it diminishes the quality of life for everyone except the 1%. 

[spidermike007]

A declining population is the least of Thailand's problems right now. 

 

How about little in the way of good education available for kids. 

 

The extreme sanitization of Thai society, the elimination of anything that resembles character, the willful destruction of the nightlife, and the tired, insincere, increasingly fake purity campaigns. 

 

The continued environmental destruction and worsening air quality, coupled with no intent of effort to fix anything. 

 

The worsening dependence on China. Will Thailand eventually be a communist colony? 

 

The insistence on the part of the rich and elite to keep the common man down, and to continue with anemic and non-visionary leadership, that continues to move the country backwards at an alarming page. 

 

I could go on. 

[cobra]

One of Elon Musk's dire warnings besides out of control AI is global population decline,

He mentions flat and negative birth rates around the world and of the consequences that may entail.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, theblether said:

 

Did you read my post as bemoaning the end of the sex trade? It's already in a crashing death spiral. 

I very much doubt it's in a death spiral- just moved out of the bars and on line.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, cobra said:

One of Elon Musk's dire warnings besides out of control AI is global population decline,

He mentions flat and negative birth rates around the world and of the consequences that may entail.

I hope he's right about a declining population, and it's a good thing.

Consequences-

less destruction of the environment

less unemployment

workers will be properly rewarded for their labour

less exploitation of the poor

the 1% will get less rich

etc

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

A declining population is the least of Thailand's problems right now. 

 

How about little in the way of good education available for kids. 

 

The extreme sanitization of Thai society, the elimination of anything that resembles character, the willful destruction of the nightlife, and the tired, insincere, increasingly fake purity campaigns. 

 

The continued environmental destruction and worsening air quality, coupled with no intent of effort to fix anything. 

 

The worsening dependence on China. Will Thailand eventually be a communist colony? 

 

The insistence on the part of the rich and elite to keep the common man down, and to continue with anemic and non-visionary leadership, that continues to move the country backwards at an alarming page. 

 

I could go on. 

I must have lived in a completely different Thailand than yourself. Perhaps we live in parallel universes and are able to communicate through a worm hole.

In your universe, Thailand is ruled by such unimaginably awful people that it's hell on earth, and in mine it's a lovely country ( outside the cities ) with lovely people ( for the most part ) that are mostly accepting of their lot ( even if not so much as 30 years ago ).

 

I just never thought about Thailand's rulers in the way you did ( with the exception of Thaksin and I cheered when he got his ). I didn't think they were fantastic or awful, and they were not worse than any other country I lived in, with the exception of Saudi.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

How about little in the way of good education available for kids. 

It can't be worse that the ( expensive ) non education that was inflicted on me, and the youth of today seem somewhat uneducated, IMO.

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

You bring up some valid points, there is no doubt that change and demographic shifts can be painful, but I think overall it will be a very positive thing. I personally think the biggest problem this planet faces right now is over population, it diminishes the quality of life for everyone except the 1%. 

As I said the issue is not whether a smaller population is a good thing or a bad thing, In fact it all depends upon the definition of what constitutes "a good thing"  and the fact that what is good for some might not be good for others. 

IMO the challenge is in  the getting from here to there.

We know what here is, we can imagine, but don't really know what there is. And leaving Egypt for the promised land involves crossing the desert. 

There is always the possibility that we might not make it to the other side, or perhaps not all of us. 

So keeping all that in mind , there is a case to be made for staying in Egypt. 

Egypt is not so bad , is it? 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

23 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

it's an existential crisis at this point. Did you ever see the videos of the immigrant prime ministers of Scotland and now Ireland standing in parliament and complaining there are too many white people in government? They're literally importing their replacements and will lose total control of their governments once they become minorities.

Anyone arguing against that point you made - is either ignorant of the truth, or is a woke progressive liberal (genetic).

How I shut them down - and it works every time - is to simply ask them 2 questions:-

1.   Did Muhammad ever visit SEAsia?

2.  How come Indonesia and Malaysia are Muslim countries?

When the over-educated amongst them come back with 'Jesus never visited Sth America etc', I say YES Christianity took over there, and then I ask them - So are you OK with Islam taking over here?  Because I am not !!

[NorthernRyland]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You bring up some valid points, there is no doubt that change and demographic shifts can be painful, but I think overall it will be a very positive thing. I personally think the biggest problem this planet faces right now is over population, it diminishes the quality of life for everyone except the 1%. 

I see the complete the opposite. Even in Thailand which is a country which many would say is over populated there is vast amounts of cheap land available to purchase. If people are so troubled with over population why aren't they moving to these areas? The answer is pretty simple, they WANT to live in the densely populated areas and in fact leave rural areas to live in big cities. Even in small cities people are found clustered together.

 

So what really is the problem here? People want to live like this so what's the justification for saying its a problem for the 99%?

[NorthernRyland]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I just never thought about Thailand's rulers in the way you did ( with the exception of Thaksin and I cheered when he got his ). I didn't think they were fantastic or awful, and they were not worse than any other country I lived in, with the exception of Saudi.

Maybe Thailands rulers are the worst in the world but in daily life you never interact with them. Back in the West you will be interacting constantly with the government so who rules over you is extremely important. 

[stoutfella]

17 hours ago, Puccini said:

 

Your reference to virile tourists indicates that you are referring to male tourists. However, it is really more women of childbearing age that are needed for an increase in the birth rate, and foreign female tourists would be unlikely to bring about this increase in the Thailand's birth rate.

Than you for your clarification. What you said hadn't even occurred to me so I am most grateful.

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

I see the complete the opposite. Even in Thailand which is a country which many would say is over populated there is vast amounts of cheap land available to purchase. If people are so troubled with over population why aren't they moving to these areas? The answer is pretty simple, they WANT to live in the densely populated areas and in fact leave rural areas to live in big cities. Even in small cities people are found clustered together.

 

So what really is the problem here? People want to live like this so what's the justification for saying its a problem for the 99%?

 

Whether you choose to live in a rural setting or in a big city, overpopulation is still a problem for everybody and it affects all of us on countless levels, it diminishes the quality of life for all of us on countless levels, even if you are living in an ideal rural environment. 

 

My favorite line from the 1st season of True Detective. Dark, but profound. 

 

I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self aware. Nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are creatures what should not exist, by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, a secretion of sensory experience and feeling programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody. I think the honorable thing for our species to do is to deny our programming. Stop reproducing. Walk hand and hand into extinction. One last midnight, brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal.

[spidermike007]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

As I said the issue is not whether a smaller population is a good thing or a bad thing, In fact it all depends upon the definition of what constitutes "a good thing"  and the fact that what is good for some might not be good for others. 

IMO the challenge is in  the getting from here to there.

We know what here is, we can imagine, but don't really know what there is. And leaving Egypt for the promised land involves crossing the desert. 

There is always the possibility that we might not make it to the other side, or perhaps not all of us. 

So keeping all that in mind , there is a case to be made for staying in Egypt. 

Egypt is not so bad , is it? 

 

Yes it is it's pretty bleak, as a matter of fact and mankind has always had a drive for greener pastures. Whether or not a lower population represents a greener pasture is very subjective. I think it does and I think like you said it might not be an easy transition but I think it's an incredibly wonderful and positive direction to be marching towards.

 

Ever expanding population was never going to be good for any of us. 

[hondoelsinore]

Make more women, Thailand, because lord knows you're not making many men. If they're not ladyboys, they all seem to be very feminine.

[tonbridgebrit]

People in Britain and Europe should realise that Britain and Europe also have declining birth-rates. It's because of immigration, that's what's stopping negative population growth.

Perhaps mass usage of condoms and other contraceptives is what's causing the very low birth-rates.

[NorthernRyland]

19 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Whether you choose to live in a rural setting or in a big city, overpopulation is still a problem for everybody and it affects all of us on countless levels, it diminishes the quality of life for all of us on countless levels, even if you are living in an ideal rural environment. 

 

 

but my point is people do this to themselves. If the Thai population was cut in half the outer regions of cities would collapse but the inner city would still be as congested as ever. At least there would be less traffic traveling in to the city. It's human nature to want to cluster together.