Ford Loses $32k for every EV sold

[thaibeachlovers]

Ford Loses $32k for every EV sold

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/11/2023 at 8:16 AM, GinBoy2 said:

I'm not convinced that EV's are the future, I've always been convinced that Hydrogen is the real longterm solution.

 

Maybe EV's are fine in certain locations, Singapore springs to mind since can drive across the whole island in less than an hour and charging mid journey isn't an issue.

 

But live anywhere where long distance trips are the norm, EV's just don't work.

 

I can fill my car in 5 minutes max, in an EV you might as well go get lunch while your car is re-charging!

 

If I had an EV here in the US and I was to drive to Denver, six hours through basically the nothingness of Wyoming, couldn't do it on a single charge. There is one charging point half way, and I watched a BBC show recently about how unreliable those charging points can be, so if that's down, you are well and truly f???ked in the middle of nowhere.

Ford Loses $32k for every EV sold

You can carry a can of gas in your car, can't take a spare battery with you

I've been saying that EVs are the wrong way and hydrogen is the right way ever since EVs became the manufacturer's choice.

Looking at the linked article and seeing that EVs are cheaper to build and they will need less workers, ergo more profit, one understands why they want people to go EV. Likely,hydrogen powered cars will use an IC engine, so they won't be able to sack large numbers of workers. It's all about greed.

[GinBoy2]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've been saying that EVs are the wrong way and hydrogen is the right way ever since EVs became the manufacturer's choice.

Looking at the linked article and seeing that EVs are cheaper to build and they will need less workers, ergo more profit, one understands why they want people to go EV. Likely,hydrogen powered cars will use an IC engine, so they won't be able to sack large numbers of workers. It's all about greed.

Never underestimate the desire for profit over doing what's right.

 

Green Hydrogen is on the horizon, and it provides an energy source as flexible as gasoline.

 

But the current 'green' generation can't see past the bumper sticker politics, let alone fundamental science!

[Sigmund]

Ford's losses should be the last of worries for the American taxpayers. The USA is monthly loosing millions in tax money,  that are being squandered in igniting and maintaining wars over east Europe or the Middle East.

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

Ford's losses should be the last of worries for the American taxpayers. The USA is monthly loosing millions in tax money,  that are being squandered in igniting and maintaining wars over east Europe or the Middle East.

Wars add to the GDP which is soooo important to show how well the economy is doing... ask any democrat

[JBChiangRai]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've been saying that EVs are the wrong way and hydrogen is the right way ever since EVs became the manufacturer's choice.

Looking at the linked article and seeing that EVs are cheaper to build and they will need less workers, ergo more profit, one understands why they want people to go EV. Likely,hydrogen powered cars will use an IC engine, so they won't be able to sack large numbers of workers. It's all about greed.

 

I see a place for Hydrogen vehicles, they will be cheaper to buy than BEV's but less popular and sub-optimal for cars.

 

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Never underestimate the desire for profit over doing what's right.

 

Green Hydrogen is on the horizon, and it provides an energy source as flexible as gasoline.

 

But the current 'green' generation can't see past the bumper sticker politics, let alone fundamental science!

 

Green Hydrogen will be at least 3 times more expensive than Electricity (probably 5 times), which is why people will buy BEV's if they can afford them because their running costs will be *MUCH* cheaper.

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, radiochaser said:

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that, too many things that I buy now, cost as much as 1/2 more now, than they did before biden became president!

Because I tend to just put stuff like receipts for things that I buy, down just anywhere in the house, and I find them months, even years later, I can see that prices are 25% to 50% cheaper back then, before biden was president, than now.    That is an absolute fact!   I buy 3/4 inch plywood that before biden was president cost $35.00 per sheet, now $73.00, as an example.   Before biden, my wife had an estimate for build costs of her dream house that was $300,000.00.   That dream house cost has now increased to $750,000.00!!!   So glad the democrats are doing what they are doing to run the economy better!

If you want to call running the economy better when the democrats/biden causes so much inflation, then by all means, continue to do so.  

What youtube podcasts?   The ones I link to?  Or podcasts I make?   If you are implying that I make podcasts, I am too lazy to do that.   I have 2 or three videos on youtube, and the only person that seems to view them is me, except the video I posted about the CNC machine making a crown for one of my teeth.   That CNC video has over 40 views after about 1 or 2 years!

 

Because Trump

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, radiochaser said:

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that, too many things that I buy now, cost as much as 1/2 more now, than they did before biden became president!

Because I tend to just put stuff like receipts for things that I buy, down just anywhere in the house, and I find them months, even years later, I can see that prices are 25% to 50% cheaper back then, before biden was president, than now.    That is an absolute fact!   I buy 3/4 inch plywood that before biden was president cost $35.00 per sheet, now $73.00, as an example.   Before biden, my wife had an estimate for build costs of her dream house that was $300,000.00.   That dream house cost has now increased to $750,000.00!!!   So glad the democrats are doing what they are doing to run the economy better!

If you want to call running the economy better when the democrats/biden causes so much inflation, then by all means, continue to do so.  

What youtube podcasts?   The ones I link to?  Or podcasts I make?   If you are implying that I make podcasts, I am too lazy to do that.   I have 2 or three videos on youtube, and the only person that seems to view them is me, except the video I posted about the CNC machine making a crown for one of my teeth.   That CNC video has over 40 views after about 1 or 2 years!

 

You're a conveniently forgetting covid it was a historic generational opportunity for businesses both small and large to engage in major price gouging and starting an inflationary cycle that will not be forgotten for generations. 

 

The second aspect of this you're conveniently forgetting, is the trade war that Trump declared on China that contributed to the inflationary cycle that was like nothing we've seen in decades. It was perhaps the most ignorant thing that a president has done in a century or two. 

[Henryford]

Lucid loses $340,000 on EVERY car they sell. EVs have a great future ha ha.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Lucid loses $340,000 on EVERY car they sell. EVs have a great future ha ha.

 

China makes profit on every EV they sell, EV's do indeed have a great future, the American Auto Industry, not so much.

[BenStark]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

China makes profit on every EV they sell,

 

No they don't, they are all government sponsored or run, and that is why they make a profit

[motdaeng]

31 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

No they don't, they are all government sponsored or run, and that is why they make a profit

 

tell me one government that does not subsidize or protect its own car industry in any way.

 

please provide evidence that chinese cars would incur losses without government-sponsored support,

similar to the losses ford is experiencing.

 

it's clearly a problem for the ford company (and some others); why produce something if you cannot compete at all.

will ford ask the goverment for help?

[BenStark]

17 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

please provide evidence that chinese cars would incur losses without government-sponsored support,

similar to the losses ford is experiencing.

 

Take your pick.

 

BYD seems to be the only profitable one, and even that only for their last quarter when they made an unprecedented profit jump, most likely by cooking the books like the majority of China companies are infamous for

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Long-road-to-profit-for-China-s-Nio-underscores-EV-challenges

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/profits-are-nowhere-to-be-seen-at-most-chinese-ev-makers-despite-rising-sales/

 

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/few-chinese-ev-makers-are-profitable-despite-volume-boost-13-09-2022

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/business/nio-china-electric-vehicles.html

 

Nio lost $835 million in the second quarter, or $35,000 for each car it sold.

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by BenStark

[motdaeng]

i think, in the next few years some bev brand will disappear ... only the profitable companies will survive!

[JBChiangRai]

14 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

i think, in the next few years some bev brand will disappear ... only the profitable companies will survive!

 

I think that is going to be much more true for legacy Western auto makers.

 

Chinese EV makers will hit a profit on volume, for legacy auto makers, they can't compete and more volume is likely to equal more loss.

 

Unless Western governments apply very large tariffs on Chinese BEV's to protect their industries, consumers won't like that at all.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:18 AM, KhunLA said:

Cost difference MG ZS EV vs ICE (i own/owned both)

Not mentioned cost of solar install ongoing cost of  batteries if  used for storage at night

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:18 AM, KhunLA said:

Cost difference MG ZS EV vs ICE (i own/owned both)

Initial cost of each vehicle + depreciation?

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:22 AM, KhunLA said:

Who ever offers the first BEV Pickup is going to make a killing here.  Thais love their pickups.

Except once loaded with even the slightest bit of weight range is DRAMATICALLY reduced......and we  all know Thais love to overload anything.

[Rampant Rabbit]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think that is going to be much more true for legacy Western auto makers.

 

Chinese EV makers will hit a profit on volume, for legacy auto makers, they can't compete and more volume is likely to equal more loss.

 

Unless Western governments apply very large tariffs on Chinese BEV's to protect their industries, consumers won't like that at all.

I think theyll u turn on  electric vehicles totally or  go the 99%petrol/hybrid  route with a minimal battery to satisfy green requirements.

[radiochaser]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Because Trump

Yeah, trump is still working to ruin the economy!

[radiochaser]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

You're a conveniently forgetting covid it was a historic generational opportunity for businesses both small and large to engage in major price gouging and starting an inflationary cycle that will not be forgotten for generations. 

 

The second aspect of this you're conveniently forgetting, is the trade war that Trump declared on China that contributed to the inflationary cycle that was like nothing we've seen in decades. It was perhaps the most ignorant thing that a president has done in a century or two. 

No, I didn't forget.  I remember other things too. 

[Startmeup]

Most large scale ventures involved in the "Green transition" today are not viable with the current interest rates (which are still low historically) and are asking for more government handouts to survive 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Startmeup

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Not mentioned cost of solar install ongoing cost of  batteries if  used for storage at night

No additional cost, as the system IS REQUIRED for the house.   That it produces enough excess on most days to charge the EVs, it's simply a plus.  EV charging wasn't a consideration when contracting to have solar installed.  We had just bought a new ICEV about the same time.

 

Having solar, simply motivated the choice of the EV, along with that very nice (240k) gov't incentive.

Edited November 12, 2023 by KhunLA

[Rampant Rabbit]

Just now, KhunLA said:

No additional cost, as the system IS REQUIRED for the house.   That it produces enough excess on most days to charge the EVs, it's simply a plus.  EV charging wasn't a consideration when contracting to have solar installed.  We had just bought a new ICEV about the same time.

ok but not everyone builds a  house to buy a car

[Rampant Rabbit]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No additional cost, as the system IS REQUIRED for the house.   That it produces enough excess on most days to charge the EVs, it's simply a plus.  EV charging wasn't a consideration when contracting to have solar installed.  We had just bought a new ICEV about the same time.

 

Having solar, simply motivated the choice of the EV, along with that very nice (240k) gov't incentive.

I bought a  diesel pick up with a nice incentive when chevrolet  closed how ever like an ev subisidy it  will be short  lived, pick up 800k reduced to 529k

[Rampant Rabbit]

if  mr sad emoji would  like to point me to an electric  pick up able to carry 1  ton and to get to Bangkok and back on 1  charge from Pranburi....Im all ears, i live in the real world...........ok sorry i realised why I stoped  posting. will stop posting by adding <deleted> u <deleted>, that should do it, u just cant have a sensible conversation on some subjects can u.

[BenStark]

Just now, Rampant Rabbit said:

if  mr sad emoji would  like to point me to an electric  pick up able to carry 1  ton and to get to Bangkok and back on 1  charge from Pranburi....Im all ears, i live in the real world...........ok sorry i realised why I stoped  posting. will stop posting by adding <deleted> u <deleted>, that should do it, u just cant have a sensible conversation on some subjects can u.

 

You know those EV fan boys live in an imaginary world.

 

You can see the post about the dreamers claiming that all China EV makers are profitable. But when I posted evidence that although they are government sponsored and have much lower labour costs than Western companies, their losses are even bigger than Ford, how they wriggled themselves out of those claimns

[Elkski]

I dont know anything in the USA that has had 100% price increase the last 2 years. 

Plywood amd lots of building products went skyhigh in mid 21' due to people remodeling spurred by covid and low interest rates leading to record home starts.  By so many measures right now the economy is doing quite well.    

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

I dont know anything in the USA that has had 100% price increase the last 2 years. 

Plywood amd lots of building products went skyhigh in mid 21' due to people remodeling spurred by covid and low interest rates leading to record home starts.  By so many measures right now the economy is doing quite well.    

The last 1 year ...

 

source

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Elkski said:

I dont know anything in the USA that has had 100% price increase the last 2 years. 

Plywood amd lots of building products went skyhigh in mid 21' due to people remodeling spurred by covid and low interest rates leading to record home starts.  By so many measures right now the economy is doing quite well.    

 

I just got back from the US and the inflation there is insane. I would guess real inflation is somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 to 25% annually right now. Every time I go in the supermarket my favorite products are 10 to 20% higher.