Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Innocent until proved guilty same as Israel if they ever get charged.

 

No. There is ample proof for what Hamas did. This was discussed numerous times on recent topics alone.

From a legal point of view, I don't think there are many issues there. All the more so with Hamas aired footage of things done.

Israel's supposed transgressions are more complicated to demonstrate, even if you and others get excited by certain catch-phrases.

[Jeff the Chef]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah, you only post links, not so much into discussing them - probably be you cannot.

As I've said before, no like, move on.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Oh I see. Even worse than I thought. October 7 denialism. I suppose you think that answer was OK. 

 

Sickening.

 

Some of his claims are quite out there, can see the interviewer struggling to remain professional.

 

He said Hamas won't hurt children hostages, because Islamic law protects them. Guess the Hamas men carrying out the 7/10 attack skipped that class. Also, the same fabled child protection Islamic law doesn't seem to compel Hamas to protect Gazan kids, say by offering them shelter (or not starting a war in which many of the will die).

 

The denialism, the 'we-don't-know' - probably missed the clip of the poor guy getting chopped with a hoe.

 

And finally - justifying kidnapping of civilians. Guy is totally out of order.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Not up to me, is it? I can't answer for the Thai negotiator.

 

Your silence in condemning his remarks says it all Chef. Only to be expected from you. Disgusting.

[Bkk Brian]

28 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Have a look at this : "Sharing jokes and goodbyes... Al Qassam Brigades has released a new video of the 6th batch of the Israeli detainees in #Gaza."

 

https://twitter.com/EvaKBartlett/status/1730131788880564339

 

Quds news network a media twitter account affiliated with Hamas. What more could we expect from you.

[Jeff the Chef]

24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your silence in condemning his remarks says it all Chef. Only to be expected from you. Disgusting.

Glad I've live up to your expectations, you've certainly lived up to mine with your one-sided views. 

 

[Hawaiian]

6 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Maybe you just want to believe they were ill treated, so that you can justify the slaughter of 1000s of innocent Gazans.

War is hell and unfortunately, innocent people die, some accidentally and some intentionally.  From what I have seen Hamas has intentionally killed innocent civilians in the most brutal ways.

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Glad I've live up to your expectations, you've certainly lived up to mine with your one-sided views. 

 

Oh the irony from a poster who has shown what he really thinks of Jews and refuses to condemn the outrageous statements made by the Thai delegate

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Now I'm sure we all agree that the Hamas action/atrocities of the 7th are war crimes

 

Now I'm sure all the right-wing Zionists of Israel and beyond will never admit to any of this the good old BBC Verify Website has come up with:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67565872?zephr-modal-register

 

Added this so we can all know the rules of war.

 

Definition
Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Article 7
Crimes Against Humanity

For the purpose of this Statute, ‘crime against humanity’ means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
Murder;
Extermination;
Enslavement;
Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
Torture;
Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
Enforced disappearance of persons;
The crime of apartheid;
Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.
For the purpose of paragraph 1:
‘Attack directed against any civilian population’ means a course of conduct involving the multiple commission of acts referred to in paragraph 1 against any civilian population, pursuant to or in furtherance of a State or organizational policy to commit such attack;
Elements of the crime
According to Article 7 (1) of the Rome Statute, crimes against humanity do not need to be linked to an armed conflict and can also occur in peacetime, similar to the crime of genocide. That same Article provides a definition of the crime that contains the following main elements:

A physical element, which includes the commission of “any of the following acts”:
Murder;
Extermination;
Enslavement;
Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
Imprisonment;
Torture;
Grave forms of sexual violence;
Persecution;
Enforced disappearance of persons;
The crime of apartheid;
Other inhumane acts.
A contextual element: “when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population”; and
A mental element: “with knowledge of the attack”
The contextual element determines that crimes against humanity involve either large-scale violence in relation to the number of victims or its extension over a broad geographic area (widespread), or a methodical type of violence (systematic). This excludes random, accidental or isolated acts of violence. In addition, Article 7(2)(a) of the Rome Statute determines that crimes against humanity must be committed in furtherance of a State or organizational policy to commit an attack. The plan or policy does not need to be explicitly stipulated or formally adopted and can, therefore, be inferred from the totality of the circumstances.

In contrast with genocide, crimes against humanity do not need to target a specific group. Instead, the victim of the attack can be any civilian population, regardless of its affiliation or identity. Another important distinction is that in the case of crimes against humanity, it is not necessary to prove that there is an overall specific intent. It suffices for there to be a simple intent to commit any of the acts listed, with the exception of the act of persecution, which requires additional discriminatory intent. The perpetrator must also act with knowledge of the attack against the civilian population and that his/her action is part of that attack.

 

I look forward to all the posts from the normal suspects denying any of it.

Did you send that to ICC you know

 the ones who have to collect evidence and facts?

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your silence in condemning his remarks says it all Chef. Only to be expected from you. Disgusting.

You are on a Thai Forum, and a Thai has negotiated the release of the detainees and now you want to put him down for saying it as he saw it. And I'm disgusting, do some short sharp jumpy movements and jog off. 

[Hawaiian]

9 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Exactly, all that lovely gas, out in the Med, just off-shore.

As of 2017, the Gaza Marine field licenses were owned by PIF with 17.5% of the field development rights, Consolidated Contractors Company owns 27.5% of these rights and Shell 55%. The development and gas extraction rights belonged to the Palestinians alone. In the year 2018, Shell company, which had taken over British Gas earlier, decided to relinquish its 60% stake in Gaza Marine, transferring it to Palestinian state companies.

A think tank's perspective:

https://besacenter.org/why-israel-approved-development-of-the-gaza-marine-gas-field/

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

You are on a Thai Forum, and a Thai has negotiated the release of the detainees and now you want to put him down for saying it as he saw it. And I'm disgusting, do some short sharp jumpy movements and jog off. 

Nonsense, the Thai delegate said Hamas was justified in taking hostages, if you don't denounce that your as bad as the terrorists themselves who carried out the atrocious acts.

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

No need to already a case open going back to 2014. On 3 March 2021, the Prosecutor announced the opening of the investigation into the Situation in the State of Palestine. This followed Pre-Trial Chamber I's decision on 5 February 2021 that the Court could exercise its criminal jurisdiction in the Situation and, by majority, that the territorial scope of this jurisdiction extends to Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. 

Yes we all know Chef, I was just wondering why you did a full copy and paste of the rules of war then expect members here to make a comment.

[Bkk Brian]

Children in Gaza are anyone 18 years old or under, lets look at what they get up to on school breaks how many of these were children in the daily casualty statistics released by Hamas?

 

Inside the Hamas summer training camp for Gaza teens | ITV News

"Schools out in Gaza and for thousands of teenagers here this is how the holidays are spent"

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Why a peace deal with Hamas will never work, this from their top leader in Gaza yesterday, he also recently visited the hostages.

 

Oct. 7 massacre 'was just a rehearsal,' says Hamas leader in first public address since Israel attack

Hamas’s Oct. 7 slaughter was “just a rehearsal,” the Islamist group’s leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar threatened on Thursday, in his first public statement since the terrorist organization massacred more than a thousand people in Israel.

“The leaders of the occupation [Israel] should know, Oct. 7 was just a rehearsal,” stated Sinwar, according to the Maariv newspaper.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel

 

 

 

 

[Hawaiian]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why a peace deal with Hamas will never work, this from their top leader in Gaza yesterday, he also recently visited the hostages.

 

Oct. 7 massacre 'was just a rehearsal,' says Hamas leader in first public address since Israel attack

Hamas’s Oct. 7 slaughter was “just a rehearsal,” the Islamist group’s leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar threatened on Thursday, in his first public statement since the terrorist organization massacred more than a thousand people in Israel.

“The leaders of the occupation [Israel] should know, Oct. 7 was just a rehearsal,” stated Sinwar, according to the Maariv newspaper.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel

 

 

 

 

I would say this is an open challenge AND an invitation from Hamas for Israel to resume hostilities.   Knowing the Israelis they will accept this invitation. 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes we all know Chef, I was just wondering why you did a full copy and paste of the rules of war then expect members here to make a comment.

Great that you know, now everyone that doesn't know has the opportunity to know as well. If members comment, great if they don't not my problem.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Great that you know, now everyone that doesn't know has the opportunity to know as well. If members comment, great if they don't not my problem.

Yea right............

6 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

I look forward to all the posts from the normal suspects denying any of it.

 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

You are on a Thai Forum, and a Thai has negotiated the release of the detainees and now you want to put him down for saying it as he saw it. And I'm disgusting, do some short sharp jumpy movements and jog off. 

 

What does being on a Thai forum and him being Thai got to do with things? It is not a requirement, nor a tradition, on this forum to refrain from criticizing Thais. The fact that he's got views of his own does not mean that they need to be accepted, condoned and so on. That's a rather bizarre comment you made there, Jeff.

[Jeff the Chef]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What does being on a Thai forum and him being Thai got to do with things? It is not a requirement, nor a tradition, on this forum to refrain from criticizing Thais. The fact that he's got views of his own does not mean that they need to be accepted, condoned and so on. That's a rather bizarre comment you made there, Jeff.

Bizarre, really so we can have opinions but the negotiator who along with others got Thai nationals out of Gaza quicker than most other nationals thinks what he does. 

I'm not saying he's right but to me his opinion counts just as much as anybody else.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Bizarre, really so we can have opinions but the negotiator who along with others got Thai nationals out of Gaza quicker than most other nationals thinks what he does. 

I'm not saying he's right but to me his opinion counts just as much as anybody else.

He sold his soul to the devil as you have. He's endorsed hostage taking of innocent children and civilians. Is it any wonder he managed to get them out quicker. The Hamas leader just yesterday said the 7th Oct was just a dress rehearsal.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Jeff the Chef]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

He sold his soul to the devil as you have. He's endorsed hostage taking of innocent children and civilians. Is it any wonder he managed to get them out quicker. The Hamas leader just yesterday said the 7th Oct was just a dress rehearsal.

Now you have the benefit of religion I thankfully do not, so my soul and the devil don't compute.

Whatever the Hamas leader has said is your normal deflection away from the post you questioned originally but as you brought it up I'll give you my take on it.

Hamas will lose this war as they are fighting a far better armed and supported military who don't care how many innocent Palestinians they kill on the way, putting that to one side, what next?

My guess is Israel will go back to normal running Gaza as an open-air prison with all the same restrictions on Palestinians as before, but this time International support for Gaza will be huge as the one thing that is getting out to the world is the fact that Israel is a Apartheid state with the morals of an alleycat. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

I would say this is an open challenge AND an invitation from Hamas for Israel to resume hostilities.   Knowing the Israelis they will accept this invitation. 

Do you think the Apartheid in Israel and the unfair imprisonment of Palestinians, the prison called Gaza, etc had anything to do with causing this war?

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's disgusting. What did he say about all the Thai workers that Hamas murdered in cold blood? Conveniently didn't mention? 

It's disgusting because he doesn't support Israel like you? He did mention that -  saying Hamas wanted to kill only soldiers.

Amazing.

[Morch]

55 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Bizarre, really so we can have opinions but the negotiator who along with others got Thai nationals out of Gaza quicker than most other nationals thinks what he does. 

I'm not saying he's right but to me his opinion counts just as much as anybody else.

 

There were comments made on the content of the interview. You did not so much address them as offered a general deflection. Much of what he said, in this interview is neither factually correct, nor morally sound. That you choose to ignore this, is your choice. Some matters are not subject to 'opinion'.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

He then went on to say Hamas started it on the 7th, anything that happened before the 7th must not be mentioned because it doesn't make our wonderful Zionist Country look good.

Just listened to that Thai guy. Ihad no idea Israel took 6,000 hostages before Oct 7, not alloing their familes to visit them. If this is true, then Palestinians had a right to retaliate.

[Neeranam]

Just now, Morch said:

 

There were comments made on the content of the interview. You did not so much address them as offered a general deflection. Much of what he said, in this interview is neither factually correct, nor morally sound. That you choose to ignore this, is your choice. Some matters are not subject to 'opinion'.

Who are you to say he is not morally sound??

Who are you to say he is lying?

Unbelievable.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Now you have the benefit of religion I thankfully do not, so my soul and the devil don't compute.

Whatever the Hamas leader has said is your normal deflection away from the post you questioned originally but as you brought it up I'll give you my take on it.

Hamas will lose this war as they are fighting a far better armed and supported military who don't care how many innocent Palestinians they kill on the way, putting that to one side, what next?

My guess is Israel will go back to normal running Gaza as an open-air prison with all the same restrictions on Palestinians as before, but this time International support for Gaza will be huge as the one thing that is getting out to the world is the fact that Israel is a Apartheid state with the morals of an alleycat. 

 

If Israel and the IDF didn't 'care' about Palestinian casualties there would be no warning given, no time for civilians to evacuate, much more destruction about and different armaments used. This is obviously not the case, regardless of how you try to spin it.

 

It appears that you do not have a clear grasp of the situation or the details involved, but rather toss about any half-cooked term, headline or whatever that suits your narrative. In your warped view, seems like nothing whatsoever got to do with Hamas actions.

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you think the Apartheid in Israel and the unfair imprisonment of Palestinians, the prison called Gaza, etc had anything to do with causing this war?

 

@Neeranam

 

Do you think restrictions placed on the Gaza Strip had anything to do with Hamas actions? Were these restrictions always in place?

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you think the Apartheid in Israel and the unfair imprisonment of Palestinians, the prison called Gaza, etc had anything to do with causing this war?

 

@Neeranam

 

Guess you missed that clip of a Thai worker in Israel being hacked to death by Hamas men using a hoe.