Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Wobblybob]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Your claim was about brainwashing, and I think, hate. There's no shortage of that in Israel, especially among right-wing/religious sectors, all the more so when referring to the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

 

This is not about justifying, accepting, or supporting Hamas - but it cannot be said that such elements do not exist in Israel - it's just that they are not as strong as Hamas, and despite expected objections from the usual suspects, in comparison they are under control. Obviously the main difference being one fully embraced and celebrated by Hamas, while Israeli governments (even right wing ones) aren't 'there'.

 

Here's a choice one (the 'Blood Wedding' too, if you care to look it up)

Duma arson attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duma_arson_attack

 

Stop flip flopping Morch, what we saw on the 7th Oct none of us want to see again, with a few exceptions of course, no names, no pack drill. 

Do the Israelis have a case for hating the Palestinians, personally I would say yes, but we don't get a reaction from them like we saw from the Palestinians, and I guess we never will. 

 

[scottiejohn]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Well, in his time with the sea cadets, @ozimoron faced....

Was he also a member of the Thailand Expat Bar scene (ex) SAS/SEAL club that has more members than either organisation have ever had in their whole existence?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Stop flip flopping Morch, what we saw on the 7th Oct none of us want to see again, with a few exceptions of course, no names, no pack drill. 

Do the Israelis have a case for hating the Palestinians, personally I would say yes, but we don't get a reaction from them like we saw from the Palestinians, and I guess we never will. 

 

 

We're witnessing it now

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

We're witnessing it now

Witnessing what now!

[ozimoron]

Just now, scottiejohn said:

Witnessing what now!

 

Israeli war crimes

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Stop flip flopping Morch, what we saw on the 7th Oct none of us want to see again, with a few exceptions of course, no names, no pack drill. 

Do the Israelis have a case for hating the Palestinians, personally I would say yes, but we don't get a reaction from them like we saw from the Palestinians, and I guess we never will. 

 

 

Flip flopping how? I said on many posts that IMO what Israel does in the West Bank is mostly wrong, but the the Gaza Strip is a different situation.

 

I did not say things were the same. They are not. My comment was with regard to 'brainwashing' and hate. There's that, and it's no good ignoring it. Plus under the current government, such elements have been further legitimized. These are issues discussed on Israeli media, politics and society all the time. Nothing new, not a radical comment.

 

As for reasons to hate - both sides have that, it's not news either.

 

There was nothing on the scale of 7/10, that's right.

But there's an ongoing increase in incidents which is wearisome.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

We're witnessing it now

 

No, we are not.

That would be troll false equivalence.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Israeli war crimes

 

No, you claiming such.

Not the same thing.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Morch said:

 

No, we are not.

That would be troll false equivalence.

 

Possibly, the Israelis have killed far more unarmed civilians than Hamas.

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Possibly, the Israelis have killed far more unarmed civilians than Hamas.

 

Which is very very bad - but not automatically or necessarily a 'war crime'.

[scottiejohn]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Possibly, the Israelis have killed far more unarmed civilians than Hamas.

A post that starts with "Possibly" should not be used in such a serious topic as this.

Use facts please not conjecture!

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Which is very very bad - but not automatically or necessarily a 'war crime'.

 

All made possible by Netanyahu.

[Wobblybob]

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Flip flopping how? I said on many posts that IMO what Israel does in the West Bank is mostly wrong, but the the Gaza Strip is a different situation.

 

I did not say things were the same. They are not. My comment was with regard to 'brainwashing' and hate. There's that, and it's no good ignoring it. Plus under the current government, such elements have been further legitimized. These are issues discussed on Israeli media, politics and society all the time. Nothing new, not a radical comment.

 

As for reasons to hate - both sides have that, it's not news either.

 

There was nothing on the scale of 7/10, that's right.

But there's an ongoing increase in incidents which is wearisome.

I never mentioned the West Bank and are you suggesting that the Palestinians are not "brainwashed". 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I never mentioned the West Bank and are you suggesting that the Palestinians are not "brainwashed". 

 

Do you think "brainwashing" is a thing? Do you think Palestinians are brainwashed? Israelis not? Racism is showing.

 

There's people here who think indiscriminant bombing of civilians isn't a war crime. How brainwashed is that?

[Wobblybob]

36 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

We're witnessing it now

You are witnessing what you want to witness, and it couldn't be further from the truth. When you realise who started this war Grasshopper you may begin to understand commonsense. 

[Wobblybob]

Quote

 

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you think "brainwashing" is a thing? Do you think Palestinians are brainwashed? Israelis not? Racism is showing.

Correcto mundo, I have not been sucked into the mindset of Palestinian propaganda, but thanks for proving my point anyway. Some people are easily taken in! 

 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You are witnessing what you want to witness, and it couldn't be further from the truth. When you realise who started this war you may begin to understand commonsense. 

 

Flame edited out.

 

If this war started on October 7th then the same logic would have Israel not existing before 1948.

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Flame edited out.

 

If this war started on October 7th then the same logic would have Israel not existing before 1948.

One moment in time that suits antisemitism! 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

One moment in time that suits antisemitism! 

 

I don't believe that, I'm pointing out that you can't have it both ways. Logic is in short supply around here.

[Wobblybob]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I don't believe that, I'm pointing out that you can't have it both ways. Logic is in short supply around here.

"logic is in short supply around here", don't give up hope, there is still time time to find some. What is not in short supply is antisemitism! 

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

All made possible by Netanyahu.

 

Nah, that's you going for a spin trying to shift responsibility from the Hamas.

Netanyahu's bad choices are part of the story, don't try to make them the main dish, though.

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I never mentioned the West Bank and are you suggesting that the Palestinians are not "brainwashed". 

 

(a)

Not sure what is the significance of not mentioning the West Bank.

 

(b)

No, that part is addressed in my posts. I think what you speak of is more prevalent among Palestinians.

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you think "brainwashing" is a thing? Do you think Palestinians are brainwashed? Israelis not? Racism is showing.

 

There's people here who think indiscriminant bombing of civilians isn't a war crime. How brainwashed is that?

 

You have no idea about whether 'war crimes' were actually committed by the IDF. You may assume so.

It's not the same thing.

[Morch]

33 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Flame edited out.

 

If this war started on October 7th then the same logic would have Israel not existing before 1948.

 

Yawn.

This instance of the conflict, this war, started on 7/10.

These topics are, for the most part, dealing with current events.

 

This was addressed numerous times by now, including in replies to your 'questions'.

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Nah, that's you going for a spin trying to shift responsibility from the Hamas.

Netanyahu's bad choices are part of the story, don't try to make them the main dish, though.

 

How would you know? It was certainly in Netanyahu's power to stop Hamas back then and shift power to the PA. This was all done in furtherance of the current policy of preventing a 2 state solution. Absolutely heinous complicity in war crimes.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yawn.

This instance of the conflict, this war, started on 7/10.

These topics are, for the most part, dealing with current events.

 

This was addressed numerous times by now, including in replies to your 'questions'.

 

 

That's a lot like saying God created the Earth on some particular date. Ludicrous. You'd pretend that Hamas attacked Israel out of the blue and for no reason.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

How would you know? It was certainly in Netanyahu's power to stop Hamas back then and shift power to the PA. This was all done in furtherance of the current policy of preventing a 2 state solution. Absolutely heinous complicity in war crimes.

 

How would I know that it was Hamas's choice to attack? Because it was.

 

As for the rest of your nonsense - there is no denying that Netanyahu made bad choices, and that his interests were mostly his own (the two-state solution is both an ideological and a political issue for him, I think the latter more so). Does it make him the linchpin, no. Hamas could have sponsored this attack regardless of anything, the costs are negligent. The more relevant 'expenditure' would have been rockets, tunnels and money funneled to the Hamas leadership pockets.

 

As for 'complicity in war crimes', heinous or otherwise - I have no idea how his actions would be interpreted legally, but then I'm not the one pretending to be a legal expert....

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That's a lot like saying God created the Earth on some particular date. Ludicrous. You'd pretend that Hamas attacked Israel out of the blue and for no reason.

 

That's a lot like you trolling, again. Like this wasn't discussed already, like the management team didn't comment on it.

I do not 'pretend' what you claim - that's another one of your lies.

I say that this topic deals with current events, not the entire history of the conflict.

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's a lot like you trolling, again. Like this wasn't discussed already, like the management team didn't comment on it.

I do not 'pretend' what you claim - that's another one of your lies.

I say that this topic deals with current events, not the entire history of the conflict.

 

Then why do you ridiculously insist that there was no history in this conflict before Oct 7 if not to deny that history?

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Then why do you ridiculously insist that there was no history in this conflict before Oct 7 if not to deny that history?

 

Again, what is it with your lies? Do you have to?

This has been discussed, explained, and yet you pretend that it's a new thing.

 

I did not insist or deny what you claim.

 

I acknowledged that there's a history.

This topic is not a history class.

 

It's a current events topics.

On a news section.