Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Danny Australia said:

 

https://s.france24.com/media/display/86da1b7e-8e31-11ee-9471-005056a97e36/w:980/p:16x9/374401228abc4e57c4c5fd89c696ff9d6303f95a.webp

 

The exchange of prisoners between Hamas and Israel has been quite interesting to observe.  

 

Almost all Palestinian prisoners, many of whom have no affiliation with Hamas, claim to have experienced mistreatment including denial of healthcare, denial of visitors and phone calls, starvation, beatings, particularly since October 7. However, there is Zero evidence of mistreatment of any Israeli or foreign prisoners held by Hamas.

 

Israeli security officials have been actively cautioning released Palestinian prisoners (mostly children and women) against displaying any signs of celebration, either inside or outside their homes or risk immediate re arrest. Sweets and flags were confiscated from homes with press and visitors asked to leave. 

 

On the other hand, Israeli released prisoners are under restrictions, preventing them from speaking to the press, aiming to avoid a recurrence of previously released prisoners, on humane grounds, who had praised humane treatment by Hamas fighters during their captivity.

 

The behavior of the so-called "only democracy in the Middle East" and its lack of transparency in relation to prisoners' swap makes it look like North Korea.

 

The linked video shows a released Israeli hostage last night, along with her pet dog, appears unharmed, prompting reflection on who deserves to be labeled a "human animal" in this context.

 

 

 

 

 

You are posting lies again, there were links posted earlier on these topics detailing health situation of released Israeli hostages (one was rushed to ICU), and some details about mistreatment while in captivity. The released hostages, mostly children and elderly were shielded from the press and the public not to hide anything so much as to help them gradually adjust. This was covered as well.

 

 

[Danny Australia]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Who's telling you the Israeli hostages are forbidden to speak to the press?

 

The entire world media is saying so.

Do you have a link of any released Israeli or foreign prisoners talking on video to the press?

Do you have any evidence of a single case of mistreatment by Hamas?

[placeholder]

38 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Not that I see how that matters, but anyway, you are not compelled to reply to each and every post.

Oh the irony!

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

The entire world media is saying so.

Do you have a link of any released Israeli or foreign prisoners talking on video to the press?

Do you have any evidence of a single case of mistreatment by Hamas?

Why did you edit out the link I provided from the BBC with evidence?

 

Plenty already posted here, not my job to point them all out for you if you can't be bothered to read the topics in full, here's just one from my previous posts:

 

 

The Hamas supporters here would rather question links than face the truth of what happened to some of those who were held hostage. They are as much animals as are the terrorists

 

Son says 84-year-old hostage fighting for her life after release

 

In a statement, the Soroka medical centre in Be’er Sheva said: "It is horrific that we now need to continue to care for elderly patients held in underground tunnels for seven weeks with total medical neglect and disregard for their care.”

Her son later found images on social media of her surrounded by Hamas gunmen on a motorbike.

Uri Rawitz says that his mother was flown by helicopter to hospital in Be’er Sheva after being released, where she remains ventilated and sedated.

Source BBC

Edited November 29, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Danny Australia]

18 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are posting lies again, there were links posted earlier on these topics detailing health situation of released Israeli hostages (one was rushed to ICU), and some details about mistreatment while in captivity. The released hostages, mostly children and elderly were shielded from the press and the public not to hide anything so much as to help them gradually adjust. This was covered as well.

 

 

 

I watch world media in multiple languages and have not seen a single Israeli or foreign released prisoner talking on video to the press. If you have, please share instead of baseless 'lies' accusation. 

 

You neglected to comment on the mistreatment part of released Palestinians in Israeli jails nor threats of re arrest if they dare to celebrate.   

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Danny Australia said:

 

I watch world media in multiple languages and have not seen a single Israeli or foreign released prisoner talking on video to the press. If you have, please share instead of baseless 'lies' accusation. 

 

You neglected to comment on the mistreatment part of released Palestinians in Israeli jails nor threats of re arrest if they dare to celebrate.   

I couldn't care less if you've not seen videos, read the articles direct from them and yes I did comment on the alleged mistreatment of Palestinians with direct evidence of them lying, again you edited that out of my reply along with the link I provided, waste of time talking to you if you ignore the evidence

[Danny Australia]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why did you edit out the link I provided from the BBC with evidence?

 

Plenty already posted here, not my job to point them all out for you if you can't be bothered to read the topics in full, here's just one from my previous posts:

 

 

The Hamas supporters here would rather question links than face the truth of what happened to some of those who were held hostage. They are as much animals as are the terrorists

 

Son says 84-year-old hostage fighting for her life after release

 

In a statement, the Soroka medical centre in Be’er Sheva said: "It is horrific that we now need to continue to care for elderly patients held in underground tunnels for seven weeks with total medical neglect and disregard for their care.”

Her son later found images on social media of her surrounded by Hamas gunmen on a motorbike.

Uri Rawitz says that his mother was flown by helicopter to hospital in Be’er Sheva after being released, where she remains ventilated and sedated.

Source BBC

 

You have long established a strong reputation for attacking people who you disagree with and for spreading false information.

Again, do you have one single press interview (I mean video) not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues? 

Anyone was beaten, denied food or medical care, beheaded or raped while in Hamas custody??  

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

I watch world media in multiple languages and have not seen a single Israeli or foreign released prisoner talking on video to the press. If you have, please share instead of baseless 'lies' accusation. 

 

You neglected to comment on the mistreatment part of released Palestinians in Israeli jails nor threats of re arrest if they dare to celebrate.   

 

Of course you have, just like you claimed Israeli hostages were not mistreated and all is well with them.

I don't need to comment on each and every nonsense or propaganda bit you post.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You have long established a strong reputation for attacking people who you disagree with and for spreading false information.

Again, do you have one single press interview (I mean video) not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues? 

Anyone was beaten, denied food or medical care, beheaded or raped while in Hamas custody??  

 

Sick puppy.

[Danny Australia]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I couldn't care less if you've not seen videos, read the articles direct from them and yes I did comment on the alleged mistreatment of Palestinians with direct evidence of them lying, again you edited that out of my reply along with the link I provided, waste of time talking to you if you ignore the evidence

 

So funny, you responding to a message with a quote from another poster. you losing control

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You have long established a strong reputation for attacking people who you disagree with and for spreading false information.

Again, do you have one single press interview (I mean video) not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues? 

Anyone was beaten, denied food or medical care, beheaded or raped while in Hamas custody??  

Can you quote where I attacked you? Are you spreading false information again? 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You have long established a strong reputation for attacking people who you disagree with and for spreading false information.

Again, do you have one single press interview (I mean video) not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues? 

Anyone was beaten, denied food or medical care, beheaded or raped while in Hamas custody??  

 

And you have an established reputation for posting lies, propaganda and over the top commentary.

Pretty much what you're doing now.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

So funny, you responding to a message with a quote from another poster. you losing control

? What are you talking about now? I've responded to your post

 

 

[Danny Australia]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Of course you have, just like you claimed Israeli hostages were not mistreated and all is well with them.

I don't need to comment on each and every nonsense or propaganda bit you post.

 

Despite your notorious lengthy replies, you suddenly have no appetite to comment on what you perceive as propaganda simply because you have no answer.

 

[novacova]

“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in an address Wednesday:

"From the beginning of the war, I set three goals - the elimination of Hamas, the return of all our abductees, and to ensure that Gaza will never again be a threat to Israel. These three goals remain in place. In the last week we achieved a very great achievement - the return of many dozens of our abductees. A week ago it would have sounded imaginary, but we achieved it. But in the last few days I hear a question - after this phase of returning our abductees is over, will Israel return to fighting? My answer is an unequivocal yes. There is no way we are not going back to fighting until the end. This is my policy, the entire cabinet stands behind it, the entire government stands behind it, the soldiers stand behind it, the people stand behind it - this is exactly what we will do.”

👍

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-29/ty-article-live/10-israeli-hostages-two-thai-nationals-freed-from-hamas-captivity/0000018c-1942-d501-a58e-3f76ed7b0000

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You have long established a strong reputation for attacking people who you disagree with and for spreading false information.

Again, do you have one single press interview (I mean video) not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues? 

Anyone was beaten, denied food or medical care, beheaded or raped while in Hamas custody??  

"not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues?"

 

 

That's a pretty sick thing to say Danny, did you read the link, its from the hospital:

 

"Soroka medical centre in Be’er Sheva said: "It is horrific that we now need to continue to care for elderly patients held in underground tunnels for seven weeks with total medical neglect and disregard for their care.”

[rabas]

49 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

You neglected to comment on the mistreatment part of released Palestinians in Israeli jails nor threats of re arrest if they dare to celebrate.   

 

You  mean like this Palestinian interviewed by the press wearing matching arm casts saying the Israeli smashed his arms with hammers. Oops, until Israel produced a video of his release where his arms had no problems.

 

https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-hamas-shenanigans-smashed-teen-terrorist-freed-by-israel-wears-false-cast-on-hands-caught-lying-on-camera-13445422.html

 

To be honest, everything from the Palestinian side looks fake. 

[Morch]

58 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

Despite your notorious lengthy replies, you suddenly have no appetite to comment on what you perceive as propaganda simply because you have no answer.

 

 

Notorious. I like the sound of that. Noticed you haven't bothered to support all of what you claimed, as usual, but expect it to be treated seriously.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, novacova said:

“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in an address Wednesday:

"From the beginning of the war, I set three goals - the elimination of Hamas, the return of all our abductees, and to ensure that Gaza will never again be a threat to Israel. These three goals remain in place. In the last week we achieved a very great achievement - the return of many dozens of our abductees. A week ago it would have sounded imaginary, but we achieved it. But in the last few days I hear a question - after this phase of returning our abductees is over, will Israel return to fighting? My answer is an unequivocal yes. There is no way we are not going back to fighting until the end. This is my policy, the entire cabinet stands behind it, the entire government stands behind it, the soldiers stand behind it, the people stand behind it - this is exactly what we will do.”

👍

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-29/ty-article-live/10-israeli-hostages-two-thai-nationals-freed-from-hamas-captivity/0000018c-1942-d501-a58e-3f76ed7b0000

 

Netanyahu says a whole lot of things. Back when suited his campaign slogan was 'dismantle Hamas rule', some years later he let Qatar bring suitcases full of money to the Gaza Strip. Bottom line, it's not up to him. Can't see the USA supporting the war indefinably, without clearly defined achievable goals, and an exit plan. Similarly, Centrist emergency coalition partners will not be supportive of ongoing operations if it implies a rift with the USA or things dragging on just to suit Netanyahu's political survival.

 

The problem now is that no one got a workable plan to solve things. And not too many reliable parties to deal with even if this was on.

[Hawaiian]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Netanyahu says a whole lot of things. Back when suited his campaign slogan was 'dismantle Hamas rule', some years later he let Qatar bring suitcases full of money to the Gaza Strip. Bottom line, it's not up to him. Can't see the USA supporting the war indefinably, without clearly defined achievable goals, and an exit plan. Similarly, Centrist emergency coalition partners will not be supportive of ongoing operations if it implies a rift with the USA or things dragging on just to suit Netanyahu's political survival.

 

The problem now is that no one got a workable plan to solve things. And not too many reliable parties to deal with even if this was on.

Remember George Bush's statement after 9/11, "You are either  with us or against us"?  Now Benjamin Netanyahu finds himself in a similar situation.

I don't think it wise to publicly announce your war plans in detail.

Never let the enemy know what your strategy is.  Same thing applies to an exit plan.

As more and more of Hamas's atrocities and bold face lies are exposed, more Israelis will support Netanyahu.

There is no doubt that Netanyahu has made some political blunders in the past as you have mentioned.  However, I think he is the right person for the job at hand of exterminating or at least crippling Hamas.  What comes next is anyone's guess.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You have long established a strong reputation for attacking people who you disagree with and for spreading false information.

Again, do you have one single press interview (I mean video) not some pathetic article about an 84 years old complaining about her underlying health issues? 

Anyone was beaten, denied food or medical care, beheaded or raped while in Hamas custody??  

Actually,  the body of a hostage was found. She had been shot. I'm on my mobile now so I won't provide a link until later. But it was prominently featured in the news.

[Hawaiian]

8 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Remember George Bush's statement after 9/11, "You are either  with us or against us"?  Now Benjamin Netanyahu finds himself in a similar situation.

I don't think it wise to publicly announce your war plans in detail.

Never let the enemy know what your strategy is.  Same thing applies to an exit plan.

As more and more of Hamas's atrocities and bold face lies are exposed, more Israelis will support Netanyahu.

There is no doubt that Netanyahu has made some political blunders in the past as you have mentioned.  However, I think he is the right person for the job at hand of exterminating or at least crippling Hamas.  What comes next is anyone's guess.

I failed to mentioned the importance of American support is for a successful and sustained campaign.  The sentiment of the U.S. Congress seems to favor to continue backing Netanyahu, especially after the condemnation of a few Hamas supporting representatives, like Rashida Tlaib.

[Hawaiian]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually,  the body of a hostage was found. She had been shot. I'm on my mobile now so I won't provide a link until later. But it was prominently featured in the news.

I saw the same thing.  There is a lot more evidence of Hamas' savagery to come.  This is why I think more support is growing for Israels campaign against Hamas.

[Hawaiian]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

This tragic incident is carried widely in the mainstream press, the fact that you are, acknowledging, following and posting links to an obscure unverified Pro Hamas terrorist twitter account with graphic videos of the incident says it all from the both of you Hamas supporters.

 

Both boys were attempting to throw incendiary devices at retreating IDF troops and the teenage boy had his coffin draped in the Hamas flag. 

 

However I am sure you are both more interested in the accounts main purpose of celebrating Hamas martyrs and terrorist propaganda.

 

 

 

Some posters are hell bent on using unverified and/or doctored information to prove their point.  Sooner or later their lies catch up to them.  A fool is someone who doesn't know they are a fool. 

[Bkk Brian]

Hamas are now saying that the 10 month old baby and his young brother along with the mum were killed in an IDF strike. This after first saying they had been transferred to another terrorist group. While this is entirely possible believing Hamas on anything is very difficult.

source BBC

[Hawaiian]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Can you share with us exactly what is the added value in the war is fighting now? In WW2 it was about liberating Europeans from Nazism. The Korean War was and the UKraine war is about resisting invasion from foes ruled by despots. Even in other wars where the justifications were either based on delusion or deception or some mixture of both, at least there was some sort of appeal to idealism. What is adding value to Israel's campaign against Hamas? Is Israel promising to help rebuild Gaza? To pursue policies different from those it has pursued in the past?  As far as I can tell, it's about eliminating Hamas. It can be argued that Israel's plan to exterminate Hamas may be necessary, and that taking vengeance is only incidental (unconvincing), but what higher principle is moving Israelis to look " into death’s eyes without blinking."

As for conduct in war. Well, you're setting a very low bar in comparing Israel to Hamas.. Who knows what Israeli troops are up to considering that reporters are mostly banned? A few reports, like the beating of that Gazan poet get some play, but it's mostly darkness.  

I am sure you are aware of the WWII Pacific Theater where our gallant troops fought off Japanese imperialism.  The cruelty of the Imperial Army was no less then that of the Nazi war machine.

Hawaii is very proud of the bravery of the famed 442nd Infantry Regiment, the most decorated in U.S. history.  Many of these GIs were from my home town whom I got to know later in life.  Very humble guys.

[Danderman123]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Can you share with us exactly what is the added value in the war is fighting now? In WW2 it was about liberating Europeans from Nazism. The Korean War was and the UKraine war is about resisting invasion from foes ruled by despots. Even in other wars where the justifications were either based on delusion or deception or some mixture of both, at least there was some sort of appeal to idealism. What is adding value to Israel's campaign against Hamas? Is Israel promising to help rebuild Gaza? To pursue policies different from those it has pursued in the past?  As far as I can tell, it's about eliminating Hamas. It can be argued that Israel's plan to exterminate Hamas may be necessary, and that taking vengeance is only incidental (unconvincing), but what higher principle is moving Israelis to look " into death’s eyes without blinking."

As for conduct in war. Well, you're setting a very low bar in comparing Israel to Hamas.. Who knows what Israeli troops are up to considering that reporters are mostly banned? A few reports, like the beating of that Gazan poet get some play, but it's mostly darkness.  

Yes.

 

The war is about eliminating the threat from Hamas.

 

What higher principle?

 

Imagine you are living with young children in Southern Israel. Is the principle of saving your children from being baked in a microwave valuable enough?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Danderman123

[Hawaiian]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

I failed to mentioned the importance of American support is for a successful and sustained campaign.  The sentiment of the U.S. Congress seems to favor to continue backing Netanyahu, especially after the condemnation of a few Hamas supporting representatives, like Rashida Tlaib.

Just saw this from my Bloomberg Evening Briefing. "Saudi Arabia Tries It Hand at Reining In Iran."   The article discusses the Saudi's attempt at diffusing the situation.  The Saudi's have offered Iran economic incentives if they stop aiding Hamas and Hezbollah.  They are also asking the U.S. to get involved. 

I tried furnishing a link, but the link doesn't work.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

I saw the same thing.  There is a lot more evidence of Hamas' savagery to come.  This is why I think more support is growing for Israels campaign against Hamas.

More support is growing? Really? One sided much?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

Just saw this from my Bloomberg Evening Briefing. "Saudi Arabia Tries It Hand at Reining In Iran."   The article discusses the Saudi's attempt at diffusing the situation.  The Saudi's have offered Iran economic incentives if they stop aiding Hamas and Hezbollah.  They are also asking the U.S. to get involved. 

I tried furnishing a link, but the link doesn't work.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-11-29/bloomberg-evening-briefing-saudi-arabia-tries-its-hand-at-reining-in-iran