American warship, multiple commercial vessels come under attack in Red Sea

[Hawaiian]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I very much doubt Saudi will become allies with israel in attacking Muslim people.

The present conflict started in 2015 and is still going on, albeit at on a limited scale.  While not widely known, the Saudis do have a small contingent of special operation forces in Yemen.  They have been operating with Bahraini soldiers.

Although Saudi Arabia does not have official diplomatic relations with Israel, El Al planes are still allowed to transverse Saudi air space.  To be safe El Al flight have been skirting the country and flying as far south as Somalia to avoid any "mishaps." The Saudis are no dummies.  I would say they trust Israel more than they do Iran.

As far as Muslims fighting Muslims, it's mostly Sunnis fighting Shiites and they don't need Israeli permission to do so.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Hawaiian
Correction

[Morch]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd like to see that.

It's not like Lebanon, which is a drive over the border. Other than just bombing things, how are they going to get there, how are they going to resupply? Does netanyahu think the Americans will supply the ships?

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Other than yourself bringing this up, was there any mention of an invasion of Yemen by Israel? Or is it more a case of you dreaming something up and then treating it as a serious proposition?

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Haven't the Saudis been"pounding them" for years, and they have all the best US toys, but haven't succeeded in "pacifying" them.

Air power is never enough and needs boots on the ground, but how to get there without American ships, hmmmmmmm.

 

Having 'the best toys' is no guarantee for proficiency or success. It takes decades of practice, combat experience and a organization mentality to build a top of the line air force. That's why there aren't many of them. Saudi Arabia's is nowhere near the list.

 

To make this clearer - you yourself could be supplied with the best machine out there, best accessories, and the fastest internet connection ever: and It would still have zero effect on the quality of your posts.

 

As far as I understand there is no intention to do more than retaliate, if things come to that. Your fantasies are irrelevant.

 

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I very much doubt Saudi will become allies with israel in attacking Muslim people.

 

Was it suggested they will?

[Hawaiian]

39 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Other than yourself bringing this up, was there any mention of an invasion of Yemen by Israel? Or is it more a case of you dreaming something up and then treating it as a serious proposition?

 

 

Having 'the best toys' is no guarantee for proficiency or success. It takes decades of practice, combat experience and a organization mentality to build a top of the line air force. That's why there aren't many of them. Saudi Arabia's is nowhere near the list.

 

To make this clearer - you yourself could be supplied with the best machine out there, best accessories, and the fastest internet connection ever: and It would still have zero effect on the quality of your posts.

 

As far as I understand there is no intention to do more than retaliate, if things come to that. Your fantasies are irrelevant.

 

 

 

Was it suggested they will?

Although "Top Gun" and it's sequel were made for entertainment, there are some lessons to be learned.  Piloting a state of the art fighter jet takes more than just realistic combat exercises to be a winner.  Motivation and determination makes a big difference in whether there is mediocre performance or being a "top gun."

A military can be armed to the teeth with the latest military hardware, but if they have a lousy battle plan with poor leadership, then forget about victory.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

The present conflict started in 2015 and is still going on, albeit at on a limited scale.  While not widely known, the Saudis do have a small contingent of special operation forces in Yemen.  They have been operating with Bahraini soldiers.

Although Saudi Arabia does not have official diplomatic relations with Israel, El Al planes are still allowed to transverse Saudi air space.  To be safe El Al flight have been skirting the country and flying as far south as Somalia to avoid any "mishaps." The Saudis are no dummies.  I would say they trust Israel more than they do Iran.

As far as Muslims fighting Muslims, it's mostly Sunnis fighting Shiites and they don't need Israeli permission to do so.

There is a difference between Muslims fighting other Muslims and allying with israel to fight other Muslims. The Saudi royals will IMO never risk something that the religious leaders would regard as an obscenity. I worked in Saudi with and for Saudis  ( not in a western compound without any Saudis ) for years, so I have some knowledge of the situation there.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because the royals were going to normalise relations with israel that the ordinary Saudi agrees with it. I gather that the ordinary Saudis are as outraged by israel's behaviour in Gaza as any other Muslim country in the world.

 

I doubt they trust any country except Saudi ( themselves ) and are guided in international dealings by self interest, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Majority of oil delivered in Israel comes from Azerbaijan through Turkey. Today's Israeli relationship with Turkey (Erdogan) is not optimum as this war takes too long (many civil causalities on both sides) and too many unnecessary third party countries like involving Russia Amir Whitman's war provocation.

 

I was going to look up where israeli fuel comes from, so you saved me the trouble.

Turkey has no reason to be nice to israel, and perhaps they will cut the oil flow if nothing else works. I know the US would make it up, but that would take time.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a difference between Muslims fighting other Muslims and allying with israel to fight other Muslims. The Saudi royals will IMO never risk something that the religious leaders would regard as an obscenity. I worked in Saudi with and for Saudis  ( not in a western compound without any Saudis ) for years, so I have some knowledge of the situation there.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because the royals were going to normalise relations with israel that the ordinary Saudi agrees with it. I gather that the ordinary Saudis are as outraged by israel's behaviour in Gaza as any other Muslim country in the world.

 

I doubt they trust any country except Saudi ( themselves ) and are guided in international dealings by self interest, IMO.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Again, other than yourself going on about it, are there any claims that Israel and Saudi Arabia will cooperate on a military level as you imply vs. the Houthis?

[Hawaiian]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a difference between Muslims fighting other Muslims and allying with israel to fight other Muslims. The Saudi royals will IMO never risk something that the religious leaders would regard as an obscenity. I worked in Saudi with and for Saudis  ( not in a western compound without any Saudis ) for years, so I have some knowledge of the situation there.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because the royals were going to normalise relations with israel that the ordinary Saudi agrees with it. I gather that the ordinary Saudis are as outraged by israel's behaviour in Gaza as any other Muslim country in the world.

 

I doubt they trust any country except Saudi ( themselves ) and are guided in international dealings by self interest, IMO.

IMO, MBS is all about business and while public sentiment may concern him, he is not going to let it get in his way.  I think he considers Israel as necessary evil that serves a purpose and will not cut all ties with the country. 

The Iranians that I have done business with are as sneaky as can be.  They lie with a straight face and have no compunction when caught in their lies.  The present Iranian regime hasn't displayed much trustworthiness either.  Thus my past comments.

Iranians are Persians and not Arabs.  They are also Shiites, whereas the Saudis are Sunni.  The rivalry between the two sects may not be in the spotlight, but it's there and does cause friction.  Saying Muslim is Muslim is almost like saying that Christianity is Christianity.  It is only in recent times that the Catholics and Protestants get along.  You may not agree with my analogy, but I think it's valid.

 

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was going to look up where israeli fuel comes from, so you saved me the trouble.

Turkey has no reason to be nice to israel, and perhaps they will cut the oil flow if nothing else works. I know the US would make it up, but that would take time.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Again, more like you fantasizing than bringing anything semi-factual to the discussion. Over the years, Erdogan shifted his positions (on Israel, and other ME countries) many times. In effect, measures such as you wish for were not actually taken, to the best of my recollection. Other than Turkey's own economic interests, countries simply do not usually do this stuff (disrupting maritime traffic, cutting energy supply routs) on a whim.  

[Hawaiian]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was going to look up where israeli fuel comes from, so you saved me the trouble.

Turkey has no reason to be nice to israel, and perhaps they will cut the oil flow if nothing else works. I know the US would make it up, but that would take time.

While Israel does not belong to NATO it has fostered a close bond with many members.  Erdogan's economy is not well.  With the election coming up soon he might interrupt the flow of oil as a distraction.  But it may backfire if Israel's NATO friends institute a boycott on Turkish goods.  No way, you may say.  Crazier things have happened in today's crazy world.

[Hawaiian]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:03 PM, Morch said:

 

As long as the drones/missiles coming from Yemen are intercepted, I doubt something major will happen. If they manage to hit something, especially if it caused loss of life - different ball game. Fair enough, I think, for now. If this comes about, it would probably be dealt with in a similar manner - missile and drone strikes (either from Israel, or Israeli navy assets in the area).

 

When it comes to maritime traffic it's different. I think if they continue to attack ships based on owners' ties to Israel, and with ships flying other flags, they will eventually earn themselves a beating. Not necessarily from Israel, even. Going after ships this way is not something the international community and global business approve of or tolerate.

It just been reported that a Norwegian flagged ship carrying chemicals is afire in the Red Sea.  Houthi fired missile(s) blamed.

U.S. Navy ship on the scene.

What now?  Using your words, will the international community tolerate this?

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

It just been reported that a Norwegian flagged ship carrying chemicals is afire in the Red Sea.  Houthi fired missile(s) blamed.

U.S. Navy ship on the scene.

What now?  Using your words, will the international community tolerate this?

 

A few more ships hit until things will be addressed, unless there's some major disaster involved.

Also, it's almost Christmas and New Year's Eve - many diplomatic efforts will be put on halt until beginning/mid January.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Morch

[Hawaiian]

24 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

A few more ships hit until things will be addressed, unless there's some major disaster involved.

Also, it's almost Christmas and New Year's Eve - many diplomatic efforts will be put on halt until beginning/mid January.

If I am not mistaken, this is the third ship that has been hit.  The other two suffered "little or no significant damage."  

Although it is a matter of when I am curious as to who will fire the first shot.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/11/2023 at 6:37 PM, Hawaiian said:

IMO, MBS is all about business and while public sentiment may concern him, he is not going to let it get in his way.  I think he considers Israel as necessary evil that serves a purpose and will not cut all ties with the country. 

The Iranians that I have done business with are as sneaky as can be.  They lie with a straight face and have no compunction when caught in their lies.  The present Iranian regime hasn't displayed much trustworthiness either.  Thus my past comments.

Iranians are Persians and not Arabs.  They are also Shiites, whereas the Saudis are Sunni.  The rivalry between the two sects may not be in the spotlight, but it's there and does cause friction.  Saying Muslim is Muslim is almost like saying that Christianity is Christianity.  It is only in recent times that the Catholics and Protestants get along.  You may not agree with my analogy, but I think it's valid.

 

 

An attack on Muslims by the crusaders is an attack on all Muslims, regardless of divisions between them.

Never forget the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". At least till the enemy is defeated.

MBS no doubt has some problems in appearing to support Palestinians  while not alienating America. Seems that MBS has been rehabilitated in international opinion, and a certain murder has been quietly swept under the proverbial carpet.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

It just been reported that a Norwegian flagged ship carrying chemicals is afire in the Red Sea.  Houthi fired missile(s) blamed.

U.S. Navy ship on the scene.

What now?  Using your words, will the international community tolerate this?

As reported on Al Jazeera ( or on the local news- I forget which ) the ship was carrying oil to israel.

I'm just the messenger on that.

 

The international community will have a problem trying to sell support for israel by attacking Houthis.

Perhaps they will just send more ships with anti missile systems , but the real problem, as presumably the Houthis know, is that insurance premiums will increase for shipping, and may become too high, or not approved for any ships taking goods to israel. Whatever happens, it's going to raise prices.

[Hawaiian]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

An attack on Muslims by the crusaders is an attack on all Muslims, regardless of divisions between them.

Never forget the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". At least till the enemy is defeated.

MBS no doubt has some problems in appearing to support Palestinians  while not alienating America. Seems that MBS has been rehabilitated in international opinion, and a certain murder has been quietly swept under the proverbial carpet.

Do I sense a bit of racial bias by the Saudis here?  I don't recall them being very vocal about the persecution of the Rhohingya in Myanmar and the Chinese oppression of Muslim minorities in Xinjiang.  Or are crusaders only white people?

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Do I sense a bit of racial bias by the Saudis here?  I don't recall them being very vocal about the persecution of the Rhohingya in Myanmar and the Chinese oppression of Muslim minorities in Xinjiang.  Or are crusaders only white people?

Crusaders were Europeans in the middle ages, so IMO yes.

I doubt the Saudis care much about Muslims of non Arab ethnicity, unless it's politically expedient.

Edited December 13, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Crusaders were Europeans in the middle ages, so IMO yes.

I doubt the Saudis care much about Muslims of non Arab ethnicity, unless it's politically expedient.

 

Please. Millions of non Arab Muslims do a Hajj every year.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

An attack on Muslims by the crusaders is an attack on all Muslims, regardless of divisions between them.

Never forget the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". At least till the enemy is defeated.

MBS no doubt has some problems in appearing to support Palestinians  while not alienating America. Seems that MBS has been rehabilitated in international opinion, and a certain murder has been quietly swept under the proverbial carpet.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Those are slogans. Many Arab/Muslim forces participated (or did not get involved) when the USA (and the West) took on Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and so on. Most Arab/Muslim countries do not actually get involved when Israel and the Palestinians clash. They issue the expected statements, condemnations and then it's back to business a few weeks/months later. In reality, most Arab countries are happy to pay lip service as far as support for the Palestinians go - so long as they are someone else's problem. The only useful application is when it comes to regional political rivalries, and as propaganda food for the masses (nowadays, I think some realization this is a double-edged sword).

 

As for that enemy-of-my-enemy bit - could be applied to Iran as well. Question is what SA more afraid of.

 

Hamas is basically banned and outlawed in KSR.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As reported on Al Jazeera ( or on the local news- I forget which ) the ship was carrying oil to israel.

I'm just the messenger on that.

 

The international community will have a problem trying to sell support for israel by attacking Houthis.

Perhaps they will just send more ships with anti missile systems , but the real problem, as presumably the Houthis know, is that insurance premiums will increase for shipping, and may become too high, or not approved for any ships taking goods to israel. Whatever happens, it's going to raise prices.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

There's already talk about setting up an international naval task force. While this is aimed at protecting ships from missiles and hijacking, it will not solve the core issue. We'll probably see more on this after Christmas/New Year's Eve. Granted, it will not necessarily stop the attacks - but may serve to prevent things from escalating, thus allowing the possibility of a diplomatic solution. Otherwise, I expect that at some point the Houthies will manage to hit either a civilian ship, or an escort/protection one, on a level not leaving much room for anything but a military response. This too, IMO, will not be anything like a full scale invasion etc., but strong enough to make a point.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Crusaders were Europeans in the middle ages, so IMO yes.

I doubt the Saudis care much about Muslims of non Arab ethnicity, unless it's politically expedient.

Hypocrisy describes it all.

[Hawaiian]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As reported on Al Jazeera ( or on the local news- I forget which ) the ship was carrying oil to israel.

I'm just the messenger on that.

 

The international community will have a problem trying to sell support for israel by attacking Houthis.

Perhaps they will just send more ships with anti missile systems , but the real problem, as presumably the Houthis know, is that insurance premiums will increase for shipping, and may become too high, or not approved for any ships taking goods to israel. Whatever happens, it's going to raise prices.

According to AP News the Strinda was transporting a load of palm oil from Malaysia to Italy.  If true, then more lies and propaganda from the Qatari government.  Why would anyone volunteer to be a messenger of false news?

Link to this article is not available at this time.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

According to AP News the Strinda was transporting a load of palm oil from Malaysia to Italy.  If true, then more lies and propaganda from the Qatari government.  Why would anyone volunteer to be a messenger of false news?

Link to this article is not available at this time.

 

 

Found a link for you.

 

NB the israeli port call. Any vessel having any contact with israel is under threat.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/cruise-missile-yemen-strikes-tanker-ship-us-officials-2023-12-12/

 

The Iran-aligned group attacked the tanker, the STRINDA, because it was delivering crude oil to an Israeli terminal and after its crew ignored all warnings, Houthi military spokesperson Yehia Sarea said in a statement.

 

But the tanker's owner, Norway's Mowinckel Chemical Tankers, said the vessel was headed to Italy with a cargo of biofuel feedstock, not crude oil. But it did acknowledge a tentative Israeli port call scheduled for January, details it had not offered in the immediate hours after the attack in the Red Sea.

"Upon the recommendation of our security advisors, it was decided to withhold this information until the vessel and her crew were in safe waters," the company said in a statement.

 

 

 

You said "Why would anyone volunteer to be a messenger of false news?". Would you care to retract that accusation, or are you going to claim Reuters is "a messenger of false news"?

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[Hawaiian]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

Found a link for you.

 

NB the israeli port call. Any vessel having any contact with israel is under threat.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/cruise-missile-yemen-strikes-tanker-ship-us-officials-2023-12-12/

 

The Iran-aligned group attacked the tanker, the STRINDA, because it was delivering crude oil to an Israeli terminal and after its crew ignored all warnings, Houthi military spokesperson Yehia Sarea said in a statement.

 

But the tanker's owner, Norway's Mowinckel Chemical Tankers, said the vessel was headed to Italy with a cargo of biofuel feedstock, not crude oil. But it did acknowledge a tentative Israeli port call scheduled for January, details it had not offered in the immediate hours after the attack in the Red Sea.

"Upon the recommendation of our security advisors, it was decided to withhold this information until the vessel and her crew were in safe waters," the company said in a statement.

 

 

 

You said "Why would anyone volunteer to be a messenger of false news?". Would you care to retract that accusation, or are you going to claim Reuters is "a messenger of false news"?

 

Why would I.   Read the news release again.  Reuters says the Houthis claim the Strinda was transporting crude oil to an Israeli terminal, but Strinda's Norwegian owner says the cargo is biofuel feedstock, not crude oil, heading to Italy.

If the ships owner is caught falsifying information they could void their insurance coverage, so I would tend to believe them and not a bunch of terrorists.

As for the possibility of a Israeli stopover after offloading it's cargo in Italy, that seems to be off the table for now.  Maybe the Norwegians should contact you for advice. LOL

who

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

As for the possibility of a Israeli stopover after offloading it's cargo in Italy, that seems to be off the table for now.  Maybe the Norwegians should contact you for advice. LOL

Seems the message was received and understood. Should be less ships going to israel now.

If anyone did contact me for advice, it would be to avoid any contact with israelis.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems the message was received and understood. Should be less ships going to israel now.

If anyone did contact me for advice, it would be to avoid any contact with israelis.

Yes correct, the last thing a Hamas supporter wants is to come across an Israeli in real life

[Hawaiian]

Evidently, you didn't get the message or completely misunderstood it.  Seems like a sly way to deflect.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Evidently, you didn't get the message or completely misunderstood it.  Seems like a sly way to deflect.

It was you that said the visit to an israeli port was off. Are you saying that was not so and the ship will be visiting an israeli port?

[Hawaiian]

You certainly have a knack for distortion.  Sorry, I don't have the ability to converse in Kiwi English.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems the message was received and understood. Should be less ships going to israel now.

If anyone did contact me for advice, it would be to avoid any contact with israelis.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Surrender To Terrorism, Says Poster.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Morch

[scottiejohn]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If anyone did contact me for advice, it would be to avoid any contact with israelis.

What an obnoxious post!

Condemn individuals if they warrant a condemnation (and you have proof) but you should be ashamed of yourself for condemning any country. ethnicity, religious group etc in total.

We are not responsible for our place of birth etc!

 

PS; After that statement why would any sane person contact you for advice?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by scottiejohn
PS added.