Israel and Hamas fight house-to-house battles across Gaza

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

It has become evident that there are plenty of extremist zionists on this board who support the genocide of Palestinians. Now being presented with credible evidence of genocidal intent by their leaders they are opening coming out supporting that genocide.

 

@ozimoron

 

It has become evident that you will post any baseless exaggeration in order to push your narrative, and discredit those not seeing things your way. Then again, what you consider 'extremist Zionist' is probably anything less than a full blown anti-Zionist position, so your comment doesn't amount to much. Same goes for your commentary on Israelis, or statements by Israeli leaders.

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

I ma not OK with that and I have condemned Hamas on numerous occasions. Two wrongs don't make a right. Unlike you, I see war crimes on both sides.

 

@ozimoron

 

I don't think many buy into your 'balanced' charade and claims.

 

Your 'condemnations' of Hamas are cursory, and far between.

 

When it comes to Israel - you go on and on and on.

 

Very clear difference in the language and tone used to refer to sides.

 

 

[placeholder]

I'm sure that the War Cabinet deplores this practice. In the same way that the Israeli govt deplores settler attacks on Palestinians. So upset about this  that it has left them unable to keep it from happening.

 

Haaretz Exclusive | 

Israeli Army Occupies Gaza Homes – Then Burns Them Down

Information obtained by Haaretz indicates IDF commanders have ordered soldiers to set fire to abandoned Gaza homes without legal approval. Several hundred have already been irreparably damaged

https://archive.ph/ZrLP2#selection-453.0-453.192

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-31/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-occupies-gaza-homes-then-burns-them-down/0000018d-6021-d16e-a39f-7f3f01e30000

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm sure that the War Cabinet deplores this practice. In the same way that the Israeli govt deplores settler attacks on Palestinians. So upset about this  that it has left them unable to keep it from happening.

 

Haaretz Exclusive | 

Israeli Army Occupies Gaza Homes – Then Burns Them Down

Information obtained by Haaretz indicates IDF commanders have ordered soldiers to set fire to abandoned Gaza homes without legal approval. Several hundred have already been irreparably damaged

https://archive.ph/ZrLP2#selection-453.0-453.192

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-31/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-occupies-gaza-homes-then-burns-them-down/0000018d-6021-d16e-a39f-7f3f01e30000

 

It was already addressed.

The explanation given was that it is done in cases (apparently a growing number of), when forces either lack proper explosives, or specialized units not available. The practice of destroying houses used as HQ itself etc. is not new.

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm sure that the War Cabinet deplores this practice. In the same way that the Israeli govt deplores settler attacks on Palestinians. So upset about this  that it has left them unable to keep it from happening.

 

Haaretz Exclusive | 

Israeli Army Occupies Gaza Homes – Then Burns Them Down

Information obtained by Haaretz indicates IDF commanders have ordered soldiers to set fire to abandoned Gaza homes without legal approval. Several hundred have already been irreparably damaged

https://archive.ph/ZrLP2#selection-453.0-453.192

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-31/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-occupies-gaza-homes-then-burns-them-down/0000018d-6021-d16e-a39f-7f3f01e30000

 

Arson conducted by a military - a war crime.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Arson conducted by a military - a war crime.

 

@ozimoron

 

Posts made by a biased poster do not decide war crimes.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It was already addressed.

The explanation given was that it is done in cases (apparently a growing number of), when forces either lack proper explosives, or specialized units not available. The practice of destroying houses used as HQ itself etc. is not new.

According to this report, it's being done without the necessary legal permission.

 

This from the IDF:

"In response to the report, the Israeli Army spokesperson said: "Detonating and destroying buildings is done with approved, appropriate means. Actions that were carried out in different ways during the war will be looked into."

 

That statement might sound reassuring to some. However, the IDF isn't exactly known for its alacrity in investigating troops' misconduct. (See for example their rather farcical explanation of the actions of the troops who shot the 3 Israeli hostages or the killing of an American reporter in the West Bank in full view of foreign witnesses) Given that evident disinclination, what disincentive do troops have to desist?

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

According to this report, it's being done without the necessary legal permission.

 

This from the IDF:

"In response to the report, the Israeli Army spokesperson said: "Detonating and destroying buildings is done with approved, appropriate means. Actions that were carried out in different ways during the war will be looked into."

 

That statement might sound reassuring to some. However, the IDF isn't exactly known for its alacrity in investigating troops' misconduct. (See for example their rather farcical explanation of the actions of the troops who shot the 3 Israeli hostages or the killing of an American reporter in the West Bank in full view of foreign witnesses) Given that evident disinclination, what disincentive do troops have to desist?

(See for example their rather farcical explanation of the actions of the troops who shot the 3 Israeli hostages or the killing of an American reporter in the West Bank in full view of foreign witnesses) 

 

The families of those mistakenly killed had different opinions and were very supportive of the IDF in the aftermath of that very sad incident. Only you could try to bring that up again.

Edited February 3 by Bkk Brian

[beautifulthailand99]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:08 PM, ozimoron said:

 

South Africa thinks there's more to it than that.

As now with their interim judgement does the International Court of Justice are the Hague.

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

(See for example their rather farcical explanation of the actions of the troops who shot the 3 Israeli hostages or the killing of an American reporter in the West Bank in full view of foreign witnesses) 

 

The families of those mistakenly killed had different opinions and were very supportive of the IDF in the aftermath of that very sad incident. Only you could try to bring that up again.

Even if you were correct about the opinions of the families, that would be irrelevant. But your error is useful in that it allows for a teachable moment.

First the evidence:

 

Slain hostage’s dad says IDF murdered him, calls for recognizing him as fallen soldier
Father of Alon Shamriz, 26, says lawlessness led to soldiers mistakenly shooting him in Gaza, mourns what would have been a ‘day of celebration’ had troops saved him

https://www.timesofisrael.com/slain-hostages-dad-says-idf-murdered-him-calls-for-recognizing-him-as-fallen-soldier/

 

Family mourns hostage Alon Shamriz killed by IDF in error, blames government for death
After Friday tragedy in Gaza, brother Ido slams failures at funeral in Kibbutz Shefayim: ‘The one who abandoned you also murdered you’; sister: ‘It was supposed to end differently’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-mourns-hostage-alon-shamriz-killed-by-idf-in-error-blames-government-for-death/

 

Here's a video interview from nbc news in which the father of Alon Shamriz says to the Israeli govt "you murdered my son twice."

And in that same interview the reporter overheard the mother of Al-Talaika, one of the other hostages killed by the IDF, say to an Israeli politician "I will never forgive anyone on this."

But even if they all had forgiven the IDF, so what? Does that justify whitewashing the incident? 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Even if you were correct about the opinions of the families, that would be irrelevant. But your error is useful in that it allows for a teachable moment.

First the evidence:

 

Slain hostage’s dad says IDF murdered him, calls for recognizing him as fallen soldier
Father of Alon Shamriz, 26, says lawlessness led to soldiers mistakenly shooting him in Gaza, mourns what would have been a ‘day of celebration’ had troops saved him

https://www.timesofisrael.com/slain-hostages-dad-says-idf-murdered-him-calls-for-recognizing-him-as-fallen-soldier/

 

Family mourns hostage Alon Shamriz killed by IDF in error, blames government for death
After Friday tragedy in Gaza, brother Ido slams failures at funeral in Kibbutz Shefayim: ‘The one who abandoned you also murdered you’; sister: ‘It was supposed to end differently’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-mourns-hostage-alon-shamriz-killed-by-idf-in-error-blames-government-for-death/

 

Here's a video interview from nbc news in which the father of Alon Shamriz says to the Israeli govt "you murdered my son twice."

And in that same interview the reporter overheard the mother of Al-Talaika, one of the other hostages killed by the IDF, say to an Israeli politician "I will never forgive anyone on this."

But even if they all had forgiven the IDF, so what? Does that justify whitewashing the incident? 

Here's an irrelevant link then:

 

Mother of hostage killed by troops: ‘I wasn’t angry at the IDF for even a minute’
Iris Haim, the mother of Hamas hostage Yotam Haim, who was shot dead by the IDF as he tried to reach freedom after troops mistook him and two others for Hamas operatives, said Monday that she bears no anger toward the military for his death.

“When they came to tell us the news… the truth is that I wasn’t angry at the IDF for even a minute, truly not, and my husband wasn’t either,” she told Channel 12 news in an interview.

She also invited the soldiers to come and visit the couple’s home so she could express similar sentiments in person.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mother-of-hostage-killed-by-troops-i-wasnt-angry-at-the-idf-for-even-a-minute/

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Here's an irrelevant link then:

 

Mother of hostage killed by troops: ‘I wasn’t angry at the IDF for even a minute’
Iris Haim, the mother of Hamas hostage Yotam Haim, who was shot dead by the IDF as he tried to reach freedom after troops mistook him and two others for Hamas operatives, said Monday that she bears no anger toward the military for his death.

“When they came to tell us the news… the truth is that I wasn’t angry at the IDF for even a minute, truly not, and my husband wasn’t either,” she told Channel 12 news in an interview.

She also invited the soldiers to come and visit the couple’s home so she could express similar sentiments in person.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mother-of-hostage-killed-by-troops-i-wasnt-angry-at-the-idf-for-even-a-minute/

How does this support your falsehood that

"The families of those mistakenly killed had different opinions and were very supportive of the IDF in the aftermath of that very sad incident."

Do you understand the difference between "family" and "families"? Or does only Haim's family count? 

What's more, even if your false assertion were true, how would that justify a whitewash of an investigation? 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

How does this support your falsehood that

"The families of those mistakenly killed had different opinions and were very supportive of the IDF in the aftermath of that very sad incident."

Do you understand the difference between "family" and "families"? Or does only Haim's family count? 

What's more, even if your false assertion were true, how would that justify a whitewash of an investigation? 

Wait so you still want to argue something that you claim would be irrelevant anyway.......well who would have guessed eh. However more than happy to concede that it was not all families.

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Wait so you still want to argue something that you claim would be irrelevant anyway.......well who would have guessed eh. However more than happy to concede that it was not all families.

And of course, now that you agree there was no such forgiveness, the basis of your criticism of me bringing it up again falls apart, doesn't it? And certainly doesn't justify the IDF's whitewashing of the soldiers who shot the hostages.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

And of course, now that you agree there was no such forgiveness, the basis of your criticism of me bringing it up again falls apart, doesn't it? And certainly doesn't justify the IDF's whitewashing of the soldiers who shot the hostages.

& of course nothing.....lol I provided a link to one that did forgive.. I will let you attempt to stretch this out as far as you can alone. The so called whitewash as you claim has been discussed to death, but I get it, anything to criticize the IDF you just love to bring up again at every opportunity. I will wait for "you have nothing" 

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

& of course nothing.....lol I provided a link to one that did forgive.. I will let you attempt to stretch this out as far as you can alone. The so called whitewash as you claim has been discussed to death, but I get it, anything to criticize the IDF you just love to bring up again at every opportunity. I will wait for "you have nothing" 

I guess your position is one out of three ain't bad. That may be valid in baseball. When it comes to reporting of facts, not so much. And of course, I didn't just cite that incident. And whether I love to bring a subject up or not, is utterly irrelevant to the facts of the case. Trust you to try and make it personal.

[Bkk Brian]

More and more videos like this coming out of Gaza.

 

"Down with Hamas!"

Thousands of Gazans evacuate to a secure humanitarian area, chanting "Down with Hamas".

The video was captured in the new passage in western Khan Younis, enabling Gaza residents to access the Al-Muwasi humanitarian area.

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1752551999424405769

 

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

More and more videos like this coming out of Gaza.

 

"Down with Hamas!"

Thousands of Gazans evacuate to a secure humanitarian area, chanting "Down with Hamas".

The video was captured in the new passage in western Khan Younis, enabling Gaza residents to access the Al-Muwasi humanitarian area.

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1752551999424405769

 

I have no doubt that there is a huge amount of negative feeling towards Hamas. That certainly was the case before October 7, despite Israel's efforts to sustain its popularity.

 

As for that "secure, humanitarian area" that the IDF is referring to, I'm guessing that it's is Al Mawasi. It may be secure, although possibly no longer true, (https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/news-feature/2024/01/31/israel-palestine-gaza-al-mawasi-ground-fighting-reaches-safe-zones)

but humanitarian is not the way a reasonable observer would describe it.

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I have no doubt that there is a huge amount of negative feeling towards Hamas. That certainly was the case before October 7, despite Israel's efforts to sustain its popularity.

 

As for that "secure, humanitarian area" that the IDF is referring to, I'm guessing that it's is Al Mawasi. It may be secure, although possibly no longer true, (https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/news-feature/2024/01/31/israel-palestine-gaza-al-mawasi-ground-fighting-reaches-safe-zones)

but humanitarian is not the way a reasonable observer would describe it.

 

I have no doubt that there is a huge amount of negative feeling towards Hamas.

 

Yes here's some more:

 

Attacking civilians waiting for aid with batons, and blocking the path of people trying to move from the combat zone to the west: documenting the lives of residents under Hamas control in Khan Yunis

⭕️ In videos taken in Khan Yunis in recent weeks, armed men can be seen preventing humanitarian aid from reaching the Al Amal Hospital area and beating civilians waiting for it, shooting into the air to drive them away. Footage can also be seen of armed men blocking the path of civilians trying to move west to the humanitarian zone.

⭕️ These video clips are just the tip of the iceberg of examples of the types of corruption and cruelty that characterize the lives of residents under Hamas’ control.

https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1753789380219515392

 

Edited February 4 by Bkk Brian

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and reply have been removed.

[Bkk Brian]

Better video of one of the tunnels where many of the hostages were kept in horrific conditions for so long.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Army says troops advance in Hamas stronghold in Khan Younis, kill numerous gunmen

The IDF says the Paratroopers Brigade is advancing in the al-Amal neighborhood of Khan Younis, killing numerous Hamas operatives in the process.

According to the IDF, the neighborhood is a major Hamas stronghold, where troops have so far located weapons and dozens of sites belonging to the terror group, including tunnel shafts, observation posts, and weapons manufacturing plants.

As the Paratroopers Brigade advanced in the area, the soldiers encountered several Hamas cells attempting to open fire and place explosive devices, the IDF says.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/army-says-troops-advance-in-hamas-stronghold-in-khan-younis-kill-numerous-gunmen/

[Bkk Brian]

Good to see some more investigations.

 

IDF probing alleged violations of regulations and international law during war on Hamas

The Israel Defense Forces has launched an internal probe of possible violations of international law by troops during the ongoing war against the Hamas terror group in the Gaza Strip, the Haaretz daily reported Tuesday.

A specially formed team of investigators will look into various incidents, including the alleged killing of dozens of civilians in a strike that targeted a Hamas commander and the mistaken shooting of three escaped Israeli hostages who were abducted from Israel during the devastating Hamas October 7 attack that sparked the war.

IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi appointed former military Operations Directorate chief Yoav Har-Even to lead the team. It will operate under the auspices of the military’s top-tier General Staff Fact-Finding Assessment Mechanism.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-probing-alleged-violations-of-regulations-and-international-law-during-war-on-hamas

[Bkk Brian]

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant says half of Hamas's fighters have been killed or seriously wounded by IDF troops.

"The IDF operates with strength and precision. The ground operation is progressing and achieving its goals. Our forces operate on the ground in most of the territory of the Gaza Strip," Gallant says in a press conference.

"18 Hamas battalions are dismantled and no longer function as fighting military frameworks. About half of the Hamas terrorists have been killed or seriously wounded," he says.

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1754553536115859963

 

[Rimmer]

An off topic post and replies has been removed

[owl sees all]

I'm anti-genocide. Anyone else out there want to risk being called antisemitic?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I'm anti-genocide. Anyone else out there want to risk being called antisemitic?

I'm anti troll.

[owl sees all]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm anti troll.

I'm anti fool. You seem to be right up there JT.

 

Are your eyes closed to what is happening in the Middle east?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

I'm anti-genocide. Anyone else out there want to risk being called antisemitic?

I'm with you.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

I'm anti-genocide. Anyone else out there want to risk being called antisemitic?

 

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm with you.

I don't know anyone who is pro genocide aside from Hamas

 

Hamas's Genocidal Intentions Were Never a Secret