Brit Charged Over Child’s Death

gburns57au · July 20, 2007

Sir Burr is right...

Again posters here let their emotions run riot when posting and start coming up with all sorts of things that are not facts...

The criminal here was the Brit....and the mother to a lesser extent because she allowed it to happen and did nothing to stop it. The Brit committed a murder and the mother failed in her duty of care.

Nothing can be ascertained about the natural father and nothing can be ascertained as to the relationship of the Brit and the mother. So to even go there is pointless.

sbk · July 20, 2007

Sensationalize? What's to sensationalize? A grown man beat a small child to death and some posters feel it necessary to blame the father instead of the real culprit.
Absolutely disgusting, perhaps not sensationalized, but disgusting nonetheless.

I hope you don't think I'm one of them. I just object to other posters making up stuff and then passing them off as facts.

No Sir Burr. I do not think you are, excuse me if I gave the impression I thought you were. It was completely unintentional.

I agree with you btw. Too many people pass speculation off as fact, as we have seen in many threads over and over.

Scott · July 20, 2007

My deepest sympathies to the many people who are suffering from the loss of this life.

We should be careful about using psychological profiles to figure this out--remember they are only speculation.

Yes, there is a correlation between child abuse and spousal abuse, but lets also remember that this poor boy was a step-child and that puts a whole different twist on the family dynamics.

There are also some children which are more prone to be abused than others, for reasons that aren't fully understood.

There is also the additional stress of having an autistic child in the family.

None of these are excuses for the perpetrator(s). People need to learn to handle stress. If, when they can't, then the children need to be sent to stay with relatives or friends until the problem can be sorted out.

I work in a school, and I am always very careful about "complaining" to parents about their children. Some kids obviously receive severe punishment for small infractions or "poor" grades. This is more a Thai trait than a western one and it is most disheartening to see a western step-father doing this over something like poor grades. I am sure the problems are deeper.

May Curry RIP

troubledthai · July 21, 2007

I know this family and would like to offer a perspective to consider.

This is a far more tragic story than you can know, and no more so than the loss of a young man's life. His name was Curly (not Curry) and was the most postive, personable and confident young man I have ever met.

Please remember that no matter the sins we discuss here, there remains a family torn and their suffering will never heal. They must take resposibility for their sins and a trial by media can only add to the nightmare. I do hope they choose to face this and not run away from their responsibilities.

The couple in question meet over 3 years ago, and the family moved to Phuket nearly 2 years ago to make a home in a local Thai neighbourhood. Before they met the young mother was working two jobs to earn enough for the family while the older sister helped her look after the boys. The older child, Tony has sever autism and sadly the Burmese father left the wife and boys about 5 years ago after they suffered money problems, playing no role at all in the boys lives in the last 3 years.

They managed to open a small business that the wife worked at, and the Brit stayed at home providing the special needs tuition Tony required. I meet Tony three years ago. This was a 7 year old child that would go to the toilet in public if not restrained, could not read, write or dress himself. You would not recognise this young man today from how far he has come. The Brit would run to Curly's school everday so that they could both run home together. The boys never called him David or step-father, they called in Dad.

The catalyst for this tragic event which drove the Dad to distraction and using a stick was Curly getting into a car with a complete stranger on Wednesday evening, this being the second time in the last 6 months. Not poor school performance. Curly's school grades were remarkably good given he was nearly a year younger than most of his classmates.

Still, as I said, I would just like to add a perspective. I am not, nor ever would I condone striking a child for any reason, for the very risk of what has happened in this case. I just ask we consider, given so little is known of them or this event, that we pause before we pass sentence.

Are these evil people with no love in their hearts, that deserve our scorn, or loving caring parents, horribly misguided by circumstance now left to suffer the greatest loss of all, the loss of their child. I know that right now, I am one of the few people trying to stay by their side to provide strength so they may find it in themselves to face their sins and repent.

Will you?

sbk · July 21, 2007

Curious as to why the news report states the natural father is from Nepal and also as to why neighbors report previous instances of child abuse in the house but your report does not?

Also, the report states the step-father kicked the child in the chest after beating him and that this was the cause of death.

Your take on the discrepancies?

tijnebijn · July 21, 2007

Now this is the kind of person (?????) that I would like to see strung up - there's no excuse for this. I'm shocked and disgusted. Poor little lad

Agreed ! No matter what , the sad thing what happened can never be turned back . People who are hit by emotions

and let this emotion be the dominant aspect ot themselves and how there brains operate . Are children themselves

, psychological speaking in the spirit ! Cowards !

DamianMavis · July 21, 2007

Im getting ######ing sick and tired of news reports not even coming close to getting facts straight, every single thread about a news issue turns into a heated debate simply because no one can bloody well report the news correctly. Does no one in the news industry here take any time to get answers or do they just make them all up whichever way they feel is more interesting or are they just too lazy to do anything other than write down rumour they heard over lunch?!

Damian

JetsetBkk · July 21, 2007

Sensationalize? What's to sensationalize? A grown man beat a small child to death

Too many people pass speculation off as fact

I agree with the second quote.

Why not wait until all the facts are known? If they can't get his name right, can't get the nationality of the father right, what makes you think the rest of the story is right?

sbk · July 22, 2007

Sensationalize? What's to sensationalize? A grown man beat a small child to death

Too many people pass speculation off as fact

I agree with the second quote.

Why not wait until all the facts are known? If they can't get his name right, can't get the nationality of the father right, what makes you think the rest of the story is right?

And all this is based on one post by a newbie poster who hasn't been back since he posted.

sbk · July 22, 2007

Sky News:

Briton 'Beat Step-Son To Death'
Updated: 16:02, Thursday July 19, 2007

Police in Thailand have charged a British man with beating his eight-year-old step-son to death.

The boy's mother has accused David Murray, 37, of harming the child over poor school results.

Murray is being held on the holiday island of Phuket - where he has been living with the Thai national and her two sons for the past two years.

A local policeman said the body of Narid Curry Budtharai was covered in cuts and bruises.

His mother accused Murray of beating her son with a plastic pipe because the child had performed poorly in exams.

Murray is said to have fled the family home before returning two days later and handing himself into police.

The Foreign Office has told Sky News it is aware of the arrest of a British national in Thailand.

It is understood he has been visited by British consular officials and offered consular assistance.

TMcD · July 22, 2007

I would also like to offer a different perspective. I have known David Murray all my life and he is a good man who loves his family immensly.

No matter what anybody says in this forum it cannot hurt him more than he is hurting already.

There aren't too many people that would take on 2 Children, 1 with severe Autism and Father them the way he has and no one had before.

There are so many mistakes in the Gazettes article that are simply not true and has now been quoted in various other media even Sky News UK have picked up this totally misleading article and taken it as fact.

This is a horrific accident more than a malicious act of violence and the truth will come out to put everybody's mind at ease that Curly has not suffered a violent childhood but one of love and happiness that ended in a tragedy.

Please don't believe everything you read.

Ajarn · July 22, 2007

He's out of Jail?

Maybe the Phuket Gazette article was not as complete as they might think....

Why is everyone so upset? Most of you guys sound like you know what the truth is...

abgs · July 22, 2007

I have been reading this website over the past few days and hesitated to say anything.

I am unsure why many of you believe that just because something is written in a newspaper article or on sky tv it is factual? Just because they are apparently quoting things that people have said does not mean they have actually said these things. Do you really think if these people only reported facts that magazines and newspapers etc would sell? Of course not!

I really do think before you judge this man over something that is possibly a horrific accident that you stop and think about the effects your comments are having on various people involved in this matter.

I know I have judged people in the past but I would never go and slander someone on the internet that I have never met nor know anything about.

We do not know the facts of this case and it looks like the reporters most certainly do not know the facts.

MisterMan · July 22, 2007

There aren't too many people that would take on 2 Children, 1 with severe Autism and Father them the way he has and no one had before.
There are so many mistakes in the Gazettes article that are simply not true

So then does that mean he didnt beat the poor boy TO DEATH? IS that misinformation reported by the Gazette? Did the little boy not suffer and die a horrible death?

DId the Autistic boy that he "took on" also not received harsh physcial abuse? is that a lie?

The mother was working and he stayed home and did what? Did he help her with financial support?

I know many parents who love their kids, and many who raise step kids and and dont kill them. Sure it is noble to take on an austistic kid but not beathing him and killing his brother certainly negates that!!

Better if he would have stayed in the UK and not did anyone any favours.

Certainly commiting a crime only opens the door public judgement. If people dont want to be judged then dont break the law.

I also want to apologize for blaming the natural father. Of course having the kids, and then not having any responsibilty, not being in their life, not caring about their welfare or having a relationship with them, then yes he too must be an innocent victim with no blame just like his poor son. Terrible how some of us tried to hold him a bit responsible for the outcome of his son, how some of us thought that maybe if he had had an more active role in his sons life that mabye his son would not have died that horrible death.

Thank you to all the poster for pointing that out. So now that it is settled that if you have kids and bail out of their lives you are free from any responsibility. Good news! Deadbeat Dad's around the world should rejoice!

joskydive · July 22, 2007

Brit charged over child’s death
Curry’s natural father Pissanu Badtharai, a Nepalese national, was outraged to learn that his son’s corpse was covered in bruises and scars as it lay in a casket at Wat Ketho awaiting cremation.

KATHU: Englishman David Murray, 37, has been charged over the death of his eight-year-old stepson, Narid “Curry” Budtharai, who allegedly died after his head hit the floor while he was being beaten for being a poor student.

Pol Lt Col Passakorn Sonthikul of Tung Tong Police told the Gazette that the incident occurred at Murray’s condo home in Moo Baan Irawadee, in the Ketho area of Kathu District, about 9 pm July 12.

Curry’s mother, Ramida Murray, 32, a Thai national, told police that for three years she and Murray had been living together with her two sons from a previous marriage, Tony, 10, and Curry.

Curry, a student at Thairath Wittaya School, had been receiving poor grades for two years, said Col Passakorn, who added that last year Curry’s parents warned their son about getting poor grades at school.

A week before his death, Curry’s parents received a phone call from one of his teachers saying that Curry was having trouble keeping up at school, he said.

“On July 11, Murray repeatedly hit Curry with a length of blue PVC pipe,” Col Passakorn said. “Curry was not allowed to go to school the next day because of his bruises and not allowed any food,” he quoted Ramida as saying.

“Curry wet his bed and for this Murray beat him with the PVC pipe again until the pipe broke,” Col Passakorn said.

“His mother told Curry to apologize for the bed wetting, but he didn’t say a word. This made Murray angry again and he kicked the boy in the chest. Curry fell and was knocked unconscious when his head hit the floor,” he added.

Murray then stopped his attack and tried to revive Curry, but his efforts failed and Ramida took the boy to Phuket International Hospital, where he was pronounced dead on arrival.

“Murray disappeared, taking some cash and jewelry from his home with him. He later sent an SMS to Ramida about 11 pm that night saying he was sorry for what he had done. He told her he was contemplating suicide,” Col Passakorn said.

Ramida tried to call him back but was unable to get through, he said.

“Ramida said that although David hit the child in anger she didn’t think he intended to seriously injure him,” he added.

On Friday morning, after Ramida was finally able to contact Murray by phone, the Englishman turned himself in at Tung Tong Police Station, where he was charged with murder without intent.

He had spent the night before at a guesthouse in Patong.

At Curry’s cremation at Wat Ketho, Curry’s natural father, Pissanu Badtharai, was outraged by his son’s death. Told by Ramida’s sister that Curry had died in an accident, K. Pissanu only learned of the bruises on his son’s body when he saw Curry’s corpse in the casket ready for cremation.

“I don’t understand why the doctors say that it was an accident. Surely they can see the bruises on my son’s body. I want doctors to perform another autopsy, so I will not let him be cremated,” said K. Pissanu, a Nepalese national.

However, after police showed K. Pissanu that the cause of death reported on the death certificate was “wounds sustained from blows” he allowed the cremation to proceed.

Tuanjai Thubklin, Murray’s neighbor in the same condo block, told the Gazette, “I have known them for a long time. On that day, my husband and I were going to the beach, but I got a call from Ramida saying that her son had died. So I went to see her and we took her son to the hospital.

“I am really shocked about this because Ramida’s family seemed happy. One time, though, I saw them hitting Tony. I told them that if I saw them hurting their sons again I would report them to the police. Ramida told me that their sons are naughty, so they had to punish them,” K. Tuanjai said.

“The boys never spoke about this to other people,” she added.

To substantiate his claims that his sons were being abused, K. Pissanu yesterday showed the Gazette Tony’s back, which was covered in bruises and scars.

“Tony is autistic,” said K. Pissanu. “He cannot talk. He can only make noises.”

Another neighbor, whose children were friends with Curry, told the Gazette that Curry sold keyring dolls outside the local 7-Eleven for pocket money every evening.

“When Prince of Songkhla university held events, he’d also sell the dolls there until 11 pm. He once asked my son to borrow money to buy snacks, but my son had none to lend him so he used some of the money he made from selling the dolls to buy snacks. After he did he asked my son not to tell his mother because he was afraid of how she would react,” she said.

Murray, who has yet to be arraigned, is being held at Phuket Provincial Prison.

From the PHUKET GAZETTE online

What a sad sad day this is! Who can justify beating an eight year old kid to death by anyone for any reason?

Some people say it's because he was poor student and he wet the bed, someone else says it's because he got into an unknown car (yes, I would be worried about that!) but I wouldn't beat the kid to death for it and maybe, if his real father had kept in contact it wouldn't have ended like this. He would have surely seen some marks on his children and said or done something about it before it had come to this outcome.

At least he stopped the cremation so that his son could have an autopsy and maybe some justice, until then this was registered as an accident. You don't get scars from a one off beating on the day that you are killed.

Isn't there a system here where when a child is doing ok at school and then starts getting low grades they look into the matter? i.e bullying, problems at home, enough to eat, enough sleep.

Either way there is no excuse this man can make to justify his actions and it seems that he was hitting and starving these kids for a long time with the permission of their mother. There are other ways of disciplining a child without going to this extent.

May you now rest in peace Curly. Hope you have a better afterlife than you ever had here.

TMcD · July 22, 2007

I want to make it clear I am not justifying anything, I certainly would never justify a childs death I was merely trying to reassure you that he has not had a terrible life and he had not had continual beatings. No he wasn't beaten to death and yes this is misinformation reported by the Gazette, Yes the Autistic boy did NOT receive physical abuse it is a lie.

Of Course David helped with financial support for 3 years how else do you think they opened a business?

And again just because it was reported he had scars don't believe it, These kids were swimming in their shorts constantly, would children that had scars to hide be doing that?

If this story was true then I would agree he would be an animal and Curly would have suffered a horrible life and death but fortunately this is not the case, Curly was not abused nor starved.

It seems people still will only believe what is reported by somebody that doesn't know the story (or even Curly's name) and just wants to sensationalise it for a good read over people that know the victims and the circumstances.

joskydive · July 23, 2007

If this is misinformation from the Gazette, then, why hasn't someone made them accountable for what they have written?

Why was it that the neighbours threatened to call the Police when they SAW the Autistic child being hit?

Why was Curly, every night out selling stuff instead of sleeping or preparing for school the next day?

Why was he out until 11pm and asking his friend if he could borrow money to buy food?

Why was he scared that his friend would mention it to his own Mum that he had spent money on food?

Why couldn't he go to school the next day, if as you say, he wasn't beaten?

Why is he dead? or is that just another fabrication from the press too?

siam2007 · July 24, 2007

I just don't understand how he is out of jail so quickly.

really ? you dont understand ? I guess you have never been to Thailand in your entire life. otherwise u must be extremely naive......

this is the way it goes here....

or how do you think does the such-called "Thai-Elite-upperclass" escape from any punishment whatever crime they commit or are being involved ?

the story about the poor kid makes me just speechless, though, and leaves me in cold rage

Sir Burr · July 31, 2007

I have since found out she was definitely drunk. She is not in prison (she has good connections) and she will be paying blood money.

baabaabobo · August 22, 2007

Murray released on bail

Six weeks after Englishman David Murray was charged with the murder without intent in the death of his eight-year-old stepson, Narid “Curry” Budtharai, he is out on bail with a court date yet to be set.

Angered by the slow response, Curry’s natural father Pissanu Badtharai asked for support from the Bangkok-based Pavena Foundation for abused women and children. The foundation has sent a letter supporting K. Pissanu to the Provincial Police Region 8 Commander Lt Gen Thanee Thawichsee.

The officer in charge of the case, Tung Tong Police investigator Lt Col Passakorn Sonthikul, told the Gazette yesterday that a court date had yet to be set for Murray.

“The court has allowed David out on bail, but I’m still investigating the case and still questioning Ramida Murray [Curry’s mother].”

It was K. Ramida who first told the police that her husband had killed Curry. In the police report she said that Murray kicked the boy in the chest, knocking him to fall to the floor. He lost consciousness when his head hit the floor and later died.

Mr Budtharai, an ethnic Nepali, said that he has taken his second son, who is autistic and shows scars and bruises allegedly caused by Murray’s beatings, to another province to live with his grandmother.

Mr Budtharai said that one of his concerns was that the charges against Murray would be dropped because he is an English citizen. Because of that, the Pavena Foundation and Mr Budtharai also sent a letter to the British Embassy requesting support and fairness.

From the Phuket Gazette

geriatrickid · August 23, 2007

Mr Budtharai said that one of his concerns was that the charges against Murray would be dropped because he is an English citizen. Because of that, the Pavena Foundation and Mr Budtharai also sent a letter to the British Embassy requesting support and fairness.
From the Phuket Gazette

What's that supposed to mean? When an Englishman gets stopped for a minor crime in Thailand he or she is usually lucky to get out alive. Is this intended to stir up a bit of xenophobia or what? The last time I was in the UK, child abuse was still an offense and there had been no reversion to the Victorian era when beating a child was considered acceptable.

joskydive · August 23, 2007

Actually, even if you shout at your kid now in the U.K. it is looked contemptably and questions are asked if you are coping ok with your children, or do you need some help.

troubledthai · August 26, 2007

I know this family, and have known them for close to two years now in the same village. Since this tragedy they have asked all those involved to help and support them, but not to reply to the media speculation that has been generated from the 'father', Mr Badtharai 'Ken', as they intend to deal with this as and when they can, but enough is enough.

I won't comment on the details on the night poor Curly died, in respect of the parents wishes, as I understand the rightful place for this is the court and will respect their privacy, but here are some details you need to know before you continue casting stones at this family. If you decide to keep casting stones, then good for you!

1. Both articles that have appeared in the Phuket Gazette are grossly misrepresented and I am sure the couple and their lawyer will take issue with this paper when they get through the nightmare they are in and any other publications that are presenting information incorrectly, or out of context, or as unsupported fact.

2. The poor boys name is 'Curly' … not Curry! They couldn't even spell his name right, or get a recent picture of him. The one in the paper must have come from Ken, as the last time he saw Curly, or even spoke to him was over 3 years ago, never once trying to keep in touch!

3. The mother did not and has never has accused her husband of killing Curly. I note that Gazette does not state this in the article now on their website?

4. The Nepalese 'father', Ken did not take Tony to his grandmother. It was the Mother (Ramida) who took Tony to HER mother in Lopburi and left him with her and some money so she could come back and do all she could to help her husband. I know this for a fact because I helped her get organised and take the taxi to the airport.

5. This family has not run away from anything, they both made statements the day after the tragic accident, they both have been assisting the police in every way possible, and all the neighbours that live in this village with them, friends and family are all supporting them. They are still in the village.

6. David Murray moved to Phuket over 2 years ago, leaving a substantial career in Singapore, to set up a very modest home in a local Thai village in Kathu so that Ramida and David could create a home for the young boys, who previous lived in Lopburi and were cared for by Ramida and her sister. They opened up a small facial spa for the local community in a shop beside their house.

7. The oldest boy Tony has autism. When I first met Tony, 2 years ago, he was a very difficult boy to be around. I believe they were evicted from the first place them moved to in Phuket because Tony would scream and run around uncontrollably all day, and go to the toilet were ever he stood or sat. David and Ramida looked into the local special school here in Phuket and decided they would try educating Tony at home instead, with David taking most of the burden as Ramida would work in their little shop during the day. You would not believe how remarkable the change has been. He is now on half the medicine he used to take, he can read, write, do basic maths and in the last 6 months he has started talking! He does not make 'animal noises' as the 'father', Ken told the Gazette.

8. David would run to Curly's school every day, and they would run the 35 mins home together doing maths sums together in Thai and English. We all saw them doing this everyday. It was lovely to see a foreign man doing the right thing. The sons always called David 'Dad' and he called them 'son'.

9. They have 5 photo albums of just their boys alone! Not ONE has any signs of neglect or mistreatment, the all show a remarkably we adjusted family given the difficulties they must have faced with Tony.

10. None of us, neighbours or friends, or even the teachers (I have children who go to the same school as Curly) have anything negative to say about how these boys were raised, nor did anyone ever have cause to believe that either one of these boys was physically or emotionally abused. Quite the opposite! If they had been do you think no one would have noticed?

11. When the 'father' Ken left Ramida and the boys 5 years ago with nothing but debts, with what must have been an unimaginable burden for her, with the oldest son suffering from autism and no financial support from him, she never gave up on them of gave them away, to her parents to raise as is so often the case, but instead did everything she could to try to look after them.

12. Curly did sell little phone toys that can go on phones. He had just started this a week before this tragic accident and while this was to be a little project for the mother, Curly loved it so much he wanted to be involved and it was the parents first chance to pay him pocket money. He was always home before 9pm and only sold them Friday and Saturday, and his parents always kept a safe watchful eye on him.

Now, judge them fairly. Does this sound like a family where the Dad would beat his youngest son to death, and the mother would do nothing? I am sorry, I know I am getting a little too emotional here, but this families life has been destroyed, they are struggling to hold themselves together, and the comments you are making are based only on articles printed by the Phuket Gazette. No mother, no matter how blind, stupid or ignorant could ever support a man that would beat her son to death. Please consider that this is 'news' that sells paper. Do you really think this is an unbiased view? I am ashamed also of any mothers, or father for that matter, that are so quick to forget that there is a mother here that has lost her 8 year old son !!

I understand from the family that the incident that lead to this tragedy was Curly getting into a strangers car the day before instead of walking home (David was on a flight back from Malaysia) and a run of lying that had started 3 weeks prior. Not poor grades or poor performance at school. Curly had been struggling at school and was probably the cause of the poor boys run of lying as the teacher had sent him to the back of the class because he was not concentrating, making it all the more difficult for him to follow, but what very few people know it is that Curly was a year ahead of his peers. This is Thailand and Curly is a lovely looking young man and David was beside himself with worry and believed, rightly or wrongly, that somehow they needed to get Curly to stop his recent run of lying and to do as they asked. This was the second time Curly had accepted a ride from a stranger. They found him several hours later only because the stranger had taken him to a police station!! Can you imagine how you would feel if you were a parent! He was not beaten by anything, but was spanked by a foot long piece of blue plastic stick, to make lots of noise and scare the boy straight. This had nothing to do with how young Curly died the following day, but explains all of how David has reacted to this as they had never had to discipline Curly, much less hit him. Again though, this has nothing to do with the night poor Curly died.

Some information about the 'father' Ken that has created this media frenzy that is not being presented.

This 'father', Ken, walked out on the family 5 years ago, with nothing but 3 months of debts, loosing all the family money from football bets and has paid no child support or contributed to the boys financially in any way.

Ken's relationship with Ramida was one of verbal and eventually physical abuse resulting in her filing a police report against him.

This was the second family Ken has left. He had a severely retarded son in a previous relationship prior to meeting Ramida. I would be surprised if he as paying any support to this poor woman also.

Ken has visited the boys a total of 10 days in the 2 years after he left. He has never visited them since, nor phoned to talk to them in the three years David and Ramida have been together, always knowing where they were if he so chose to visit.

Ken arrived at Curly's funeral with a lawyer and a journalist. Who does that? I do not know if the journalist was from the Phuket Gazette but I am sure the family will resolve all this when they can.

Ken had to be restrained at the funeral from hitting Ramida, calling her a 'prostitute and a slut', he told her mother that he would kill her if she supported her husband and repeatedly said that he was going to kill David.

Ken has been threatening the family since by sending text messages to their phone number, which his lawyer obtained from Ramida.

Ken had stated that he wanted to take care of Tony, however in the last few days he has forcefully taken the poor boy from Ramida's parents home, where she had asked her parents to look after him while they are dealing with this tragedy, only for David and Ramida to discover he has dumped him in a free special school that is 15 hours from where he lives!

David and Ramida took into their house a young woman who was married to Ken's younger brother, who Ramida knew, after the husband had pored hot curry on her face, causing second degree burns. This happened in front of Kens mother who did nothing.

There is always a side to every story, and this 'father' Ken, who has created this media frenzy clearly has own agenda, revenge?, satisfy his guilt for leaving and not supporting these boys? money? He has understandably suffered! He is after all the Natural Father and as regardless of his past, Curly will always be a part of him, but to attack the family the way he is, using the media is despicable.

If you would like to talk to this family then please PM me your phone number and will see if they want to call you so you can talk to them yourself.

I am sure that this family would appreciate your support as they need all that they can get. Please have a heart, or at the very least wait until you have all the facts before casting your stones.

Thank you.

Solosiam · August 26, 2007

So you're saying that he has not been charged then?

geriatrickid · August 27, 2007

I too am in favour of the "innocent until proven guilty" principle. However, the issue here is an allegation that the subject, a small child, sustained a physical assault with such force as to either cause the subject to collapse and strike his head causing CNS trauma or that the physical force in and of itself was sufficient to cause death.

The conduct of the biological father, the "media frenzy" and your glowing portrait of the accused are all irelevant. What the court will consider is the cause of death. Events prior to and subsequent to that death will be examined for the intent, the motive and the mental state of the accused

Perhaps, the accused is a wonderful man and very kind. Unfortunately, for him, this has no bearing as to the determination of the cause of death. The accused must deal with the forensic evidence. He's already starting from a difficult position as there is an acknowledgement from the implicated parties that there was blunt force directed at a child.

You state that the child "was not beaten by anything, but was spanked by a foot long piece of blue plastic stick, to make lots of noise and scare the boy straight." Although you may see nothing wrong with the striking a child with an object, others do. This is why there is limited sympathy. You have chosen to discount the statement from the investigating police officer ( Lt Col Passakorn Sonthikul) that a section of PVC piping was used with force sufficient to cause it to break. Unless you were witness to this "spanking" as you term it, your explanation is mere conjecture and is no different than the speculation of those that you condemn.

The final autopsy results, when they are released, will establish the cause of death. If the autopsy identifies any form of significant dermal hemorrhage, let alone musculoskeletal system, or organ or subcutaneous tissue damage, your friend will be facing some damning forensic evidence. If the dissection of the deceased's head and CNS shows any form of dura mater damage or hemorrhage, I believe that no amount of explaining as to good intentions short of self defense will get Mr. Murray off . For Mr. Murray's sake there had better be no evidence of prior physical injury to the deceased or else Mr. Murray will also have to explain how that occurred. On the other hand, if the autopsy identifies an underlying physical ailment, this could explain how a small "spanking" may have caused the death.

I view Mr. Murray as innocent of all charges as he has not been convicted, only accused and he is entitled to his day in court. As the charges are horrific, I really do hope the autopsy will clear Mr. Murray. However, if the autopsy substantiates the allegation of beating a small child to death, do you intend to change your position?

troubledthai · August 27, 2007

Thank you for your honest and considered reply GC.

You have made some very pertinent points and I can only restate as before. This was not just any small child, this is the child of a family that is being discussing in here as though it is the price of petrol, or the next election. It has been reported in such a way to sell as much paper as possible, something I am sure it has done.

You have reviewed what has been reported so far. I can only ask you apply the same considered thought to the parents actions before and after this tragic event. Does this make any sense to you?

"I won't comment on the details on the night poor Curly died, in respect of the parents wishes, as I understand the rightful place for this is the court and will respect their privacy, but here are some details you need to know before you continue casting stones at this family. If you decide to keep casting stones, then good for you!