Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the israelis want to cause the suffering of the Gazans, so why would they want a more nuanced and diplomatic approach?

 

The israelis are not stupid and they know the effect their campaigns against and illegal ( under humanitarian law ) blockade of Gaza have on the population, but have done nothing to mitigate it.

 The gruesome scenes of death and destruction in Gaza are a reminder that for Israel, violence is not incidental, accidental or coincidental. It is part and parcel of its colonial DNA.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/9/israels-war-crimes-in-gaza-are-by-design-not-default

[Neeranam]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:57 AM, Morch said:

As for Biden words - one got to appreciate the dilemma you're faced with. On the one hand, topic after topic, you denigrate and ridicule the man as having no clue what he's talking about. Now he comes out and say something you like, can't really have a decent go at him. I do remember, however, that near the start of this war you were all over the place about Biden's comments regarding the atrocities (that thing with the pictures he claimed to have been shown and than retracted). Somehow, now - Biden is a perfectly credible source. Amusing, to say the least.

 

Bizarre that you think Biden is actually responsible for these words. Everything he says is carefully written by advisors and put on a teleprompter.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well said that man and in the Jewish Chronicle of all places not known for pulling their punches.

 

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/israel-is-losing-the-propaganda-war-to-hamas-unxjrttx

 

Those of us whose family members were Holocaust victims see Israel as a most important country, the legal, permanent and legitimate homeland for Jews. But I am sure that I speak for  my late parents in expressing extreme concern about the harrowing loss of innocent life and also of secure homes and freedoms in Gaza, when strategic and tactical alternatives are available. The Americans made many mistakes after 9/11, some of which are being repeated by Israel.

 

International Law supports Israel’s right to self-defence for its people and borders. The test of proportionality is complex and challenging. Israel might be broadly correct in its approach to the law. But it is not carrying public opinion in the countries with which it enjoys precious alliances. The propaganda war is not falling well for Mr Netanyahu, and many who wish to make  sympathetic arguments for Israel look forward to him being replaced soon by somebody with a more serious and palliative view of the future. Palestine and Palestinians will not disappear, nor will their sense of injustice if there is not an urgent new sense of a different realism for the future.

 

When asked “what comes next?” we need to see some vision for repair and conciliation. At present all we can do is look down at our feet in embarrassment.

 

While I sympathize with the message, it's hard not to notice that it does not actually provide much insight as to "what comes next".

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a blatant and obvious campaign to try and make everything about October 7, and suppress everything that went on for many decades prior to it.

It as though the israelis were the most loving and hospitable hosts to a people that had willingly given up their land so the zionists could live in peace and love with their new neighbours. Then out of nowhere, the nasty Hamas decided one day for no reason at all to go and cause mayhem to the peaceful and hospitable hosts.

Well, the occupants of the land were actually not happy about it and have had to be suppressed and oppressed ever since 1948, and the israelis have apparently been living in fear, given by the militarisation of the zionist state.

Chickens and coming home to roost come to mind.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

More like there's a constant attempt to contextualize, minimize and normalize 7/10.

 

Your issues are with Israel's existence.

[Bkk Brian]

52 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, Israel have been committing war crimes since 1948.

It's a pathetic lie how some say this war started on Oct 7.

 

 

In February, Amnesty International released a 280-page report showing how Israel was imposing an institutionalized regime of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it exercised control over their rights, fragmenting and segregating Palestinian citizens of Israel, residents of the OPT and Palestinian refugees denied the right of return. Through massive seizures of land and property, unlawful killings, infliction of serious injuries, forcible transfers, arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement, and denial of nationality, among other inhuman or inhumane acts, Israeli officials would be responsible for the crime against humanity of apartheid, which falls under the jurisdiction of the ICC.¹

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

It's a pathetic lie how some say this war started on Oct 7.

 

Its really not, its the truth............ The war against Hamas started 7th Oct. 

[Bkk Brian]

59 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Does that surprise you?

 

Israeli war crimes are the violations of international criminal law, including war crimes and crimes against humanity, which the Israel Defense Forces, the military branch of the state of Israel, has been accused of committing since the founding of Israel in 1948. These have included murder, intentional targeting of civilians, killing prisoners of war and surrendered combatants, indiscriminate attacks, collective punishment, starvation of civilians, the use of human shields, torture, pillage, forced transfer, breach of medical neutrality, targeting journalists, attacks against civilian and protected objects, wanton destruction, and incitement to genocide.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

From mass murder to rape, torture, mutilation, using human shields and taking of hostages, the #Hamas terror group violated every conceivable international law, including War Crimes, Attempted Genocide & Crimes Against Humanity.

https://twitter.com/Ostrov_A/status/1740353991471513899

 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If I recall correctly, there have been many resolutions against israel in the UN, but all were vetoed by the US, which IMO has been covering for the zionists bad behaviour since 1948.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

I'm aware that you have a very selective memory, but this is bizarre.

If a resolution is vetoed it does not become a resolution, so by your logic there ought to have been none.

 

The reality is that the USA veto applies only to the UNSC, and even there such resolutions are not 'always' vetoed in the wide-brush manner you claim.

Most of the anti-Israeli resolution occurred on the various transformations of UN human rights bodies - which give wide representation for countries which aren't paragons of such.

[Morch]

Palestinian have been committing war crimes in 1948.

Whether one wants to call the many terrorist actions taken since as 'war crimes' or something else, is a choice.

The point being that they aren't the lambs some try to paint them as.

 

Hamas committed numerous 'war crimes' by any definition, but that's something which some people on here are set on ignoring.

Guess it just doesn't fit the agenda.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

He's still replying to me 555

Yes and will continue to do so to call out your false claims

[Morch]

55 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 The gruesome scenes of death and destruction in Gaza are a reminder that for Israel, violence is not incidental, accidental or coincidental. It is part and parcel of its colonial DNA.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/9/israels-war-crimes-in-gaza-are-by-design-not-default

 

It's a load of projected nonsense.

 

The author, being well familiar with Israel cannot be ignorant to the fact that there are multiple political views therein, and yet he chooses a wide-brush. In the same manner, there is absolutely no mention of violence, hatred or anything vile coming from the other side - hardly a balanced or believable position. The oddest bit was about the envy part - the disconnect from reality is strong with this one.

[Morch]

36 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Bizarre that you think Biden is actually responsible for these words. Everything he says is carefully written by advisors and put on a teleprompter.

 

You don't raise such objections when he says something you can use.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You don't raise such objections when he says something you can use.

Nonsense.

 

I criticize him when he can't remember people's names or can't do his duties properly.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Nonsense.

 

I criticize him when he can't remember people's names or can't do his duties properly.

 

Why lie?

 

When he went on about 'indiscriminate bombings' you parroted it as gospel all over these topics.

You still do.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

The $64,000 question is 'why are they allowed to break international law' ?

Because international law has become a farce. 

[Neeranam]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@ozimoron

 

These topics are about current events.

Not too hard to understand.

You just don't want them to be.

It is important to discuss why these events are happening.

Time to call a friend again when there are questions you can't answer or don't like

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have my theories, but as they would be described as conspiracies I won't post them on here.

Who would enforce international "law"? You guys are a hoot. 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, Israel have been committing war crimes since 1948.

It's a pathetic lie how some say this war started on Oct 7.

 

 

In February, Amnesty International released a 280-page report showing how Israel was imposing an institutionalized regime of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it exercised control over their rights, fragmenting and segregating Palestinian citizens of Israel, residents of the OPT and Palestinian refugees denied the right of return. Through massive seizures of land and property, unlawful killings, infliction of serious injuries, forcible transfers, arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement, and denial of nationality, among other inhuman or inhumane acts, Israeli officials would be responsible for the crime against humanity of apartheid, which falls under the jurisdiction of the ICC.¹

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Amnesty International? That's hilarious. 

[Morch]

Just now, Neeranam said:

It is important to discuss why these events are happening.

Time to call a friend again when there are questions you can't answer or don't like

 

What's important for you is to troll and deflect.

You cannot handle what happened on 7/10. It doesn't fit the narrative.

So you try to trivialize it. Not complicated.

 

I'm quite comfortable with my level of knowledge regarding these things, especially when compared to the likes of you.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

What's important for you is to troll and deflect.

You cannot handle what happened on 7/10. It doesn't fit the narrative.

So you try to trivialize it. Not complicated.

 

I'm quite comfortable with my level of knowledge regarding these things, especially when compared to the likes of you.

Flaming again.

 

Lying again.

 

I have never once trivialized the Oct 7 attrocity.

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

I'm quite comfortable with my level of knowledge regarding these things, especially when compared to the likes of you.

There really is no need for flames and arrogance here.

Netanyahu knows a lot but lacks moral fibre or common decency.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Flaming again.

 

Lying again.

 

I have never once trivialized the Oct 7 attrocity.

 

Complaints about flaming coming from a troll with a gasoline can and matchbox are amusing.

 

I was not lying, obviously.

 

You constantly try to paint 7/10 as just another incident, just another event, just another link in the chain.

It isn't.

 

You do not actually deal with it at all.

The minute it comes up, you huff and puff, deflect, and pull out some general link about the history of the conflict.

 

You don't deal with it because you cannot.

 

[Rimmer]

Enough already with the pointless bickering !!

[Morch]

Thy will be done.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Morch

[Photoguy21]

It appears that Israel is not supposed to defend itself. If people being targeted are all so good, how come the Gulf states will not let them into their countries?

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

That's not the topic, both sides were responsible for many incidents before then however:

 

Guterres made a press statement in New York recalling that in his remarks on Tuesday he had specifically said no Palestinian grievance could justify the horrendous attacks by Hamas.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/israel-says-it-will-ban-un-staff-after-secretary-generals-comments

 

It's only you who claims that anyone believes that the attacks could be justified. Nobody else has said that.

 

So, you now admit that Israel committed atrocities before October 7th? Can you use words stronger than "incidents"? That is a weasel word.

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

It's only you who claims that anyone believes that the attacks could be justified. Nobody else has said that.

 

So, you now admit that Israel committed atrocities before October 7th? Can you use words stronger than "incidents"? That is a weasel word.

 

 

@ozimoron

 

Nobody else said that.

 

Again with your blanket pronouncement.

 

Read the topics.

[Bkk Brian]

32 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's only you who claims that anyone believes that the attacks could be justified. Nobody else has said that.

 

So, you now admit that Israel committed atrocities before October 7th? Can you use words stronger than "incidents"? That is a weasel word.

Read my post again and tell me where I made any claims on justification or not? Then stop the pointless bickering. Its been pointed out by mods once already

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

48 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

It appears that Israel is not supposed to defend itself. If people being targeted are all so good, how come the Gulf states will not let them into their countries?

Not only that, it also appears people have forgot how easy it is to stop this:

 

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1740496703885832303

 

[Yellowtail]

42 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's only you who claims that anyone believes that the attacks could be justified. Nobody else has said that.

Then why are you continually attempting to justify them? 

42 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

So, you now admit that Israel committed atrocities before October 7th? Can you use words stronger than "incidents"? That is a weasel word.

 

I assume most every country has committed some manner of atrocity, but even the Nazis were ashamed of what they were doing. These animals are bragging about what they did, and you apparently support them, as I have not heard you call for them to surrender. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's only you who claims that anyone believes that the attacks could be justified. Nobody else has said that.

 

So, you now admit that Israel committed atrocities before October 7th? Can you use words stronger than "incidents"? That is a weasel word.

Unbelievable, 'incidents' my ****!!

 

Is this just an incident?

 

On 5 August, Israel launched an offensive on the Gaza Strip targeting the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and its armed wing, destroying or damaging some 1,700 Palestinian homes and displacing hundreds of civilians.

 

 From Amnesty Int.

n February, Amnesty International released a 280-page report showing how Israel was imposing an institutionalized regime of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it exercised control over their rights, fragmenting and segregating Palestinian citizens of Israel, residents of the OPT and Palestinian refugees denied the right of return. Through massive seizures of land and property, unlawful killings, infliction of serious injuries, forcible transfers, arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement, and denial of nationality, among other inhuman or inhumane acts, Israeli officials would be responsible for the crime against humanity of apartheid, which falls under the jurisdiction of the ICC.¹

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Neeranam