Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[ozimoron]

In the Israel-Hamas war, history and propaganda repeat themselves

 

To recite the Goldstone Report is not to suggest that Israel is all wrong and Hamas is all right; the point is the sense of deja vu it conveys

 

Like history, propaganda repeats itself.

What is most baffling about the report is not its chief author’s apparent dismissal of some of its findings or the political furore it provoked. It is simply this: why do the US, the UK and the EU still rush to accept Israel’s version of events as gospel?

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/11/24/justine-mccarthy-in-the-israel-hamas-war-history-and-propaganda-repeat-themselves/

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Why all the trolling?

 

I comment on my experience. You want to argue otherwise, go right ahead.

As for flames, given your posts you shouldn't whine. Pointing out that you post on these topics without actually possessing much knowledge regarding them is an observation. I don't recall you previously being a feature on these sort of discussions, there topics. My guess is that you just got bored and found something handy to troll about.

How arrogant and rude. Do you want ignored?

[Neeranam]

Israel's international standing has faced loss of support for the last 15+ years, not just in the last month or two, with a significant factor being the criticism leveled against its policies, particularly in relation to the conflict with Palestine. The ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories, construction of settlements in the West Bank, and the blockade of Gaza have drawn condemnation from various countries and international organizations. Accusations of human rights abuses, war crimes, and violations of international law, including instances of apartheid and ethnic cleansing, have contributed to a decline in support for Israel.

The conflict's complex nature, intertwined with historical, religious, and territorial factors, has led to heated debates and differing perspectives globally. Human rights organizations and advocates have raised concerns about the treatment of Palestinians, including forced evictions, restrictions on movement, and military actions in densely populated areas. The situation in Gaza, marked by recurrent conflicts with high civilian casualties, has fueled international criticism. Israel's construction of settlements in the West Bank has been widely regarded as a major obstacle to the establishment of a viable Palestinian state, prompting disapproval from the international community, including traditional allies.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How arrogant and rude. Do you want ignored?

 

Who cares?

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Israel's international standing has faced loss of support for the last 15+ years, not just in the last month or two, with a significant factor being the criticism leveled against its policies, particularly in relation to the conflict with Palestine. The ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories, construction of settlements in the West Bank, and the blockade of Gaza have drawn condemnation from various countries and international organizations. Accusations of human rights abuses, war crimes, and violations of international law, including instances of apartheid and ethnic cleansing, have contributed to a decline in support for Israel.

The conflict's complex nature, intertwined with historical, religious, and territorial factors, has led to heated debates and differing perspectives globally. Human rights organizations and advocates have raised concerns about the treatment of Palestinians, including forced evictions, restrictions on movement, and military actions in densely populated areas. The situation in Gaza, marked by recurrent conflicts with high civilian casualties, has fueled international criticism. Israel's construction of settlements in the West Bank has been widely regarded as a major obstacle to the establishment of a viable Palestinian state, prompting disapproval from the international community, including traditional allies.

 

Could you cite actual effect of this supposed loss of support? Lower international standing?

 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

In the Israel-Hamas war, history and propaganda repeat themselves

 

To recite the Goldstone Report is not to suggest that Israel is all wrong and Hamas is all right; the point is the sense of deja vu it conveys

 

Like history, propaganda repeats itself.

What is most baffling about the report is not its chief author’s apparent dismissal of some of its findings or the political furore it provoked. It is simply this: why do the US, the UK and the EU still rush to accept Israel’s version of events as gospel?

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/11/24/justine-mccarthy-in-the-israel-hamas-war-history-and-propaganda-repeat-themselves/

Boycott Guinness!

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Could you cite actual effect of this supposed loss of support? Lower international standing?

 

Certainly losing support in the US, do you not agree? 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Certainly losing support in the US, do you not agree? 

 

I'm not talking about polls, surveys etc.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Boycott Guinness!

 

Well....maybe don't need to take things that far. I'm also partial to Irish Whiskey, so a bit harsh.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Morch said:

 

I'm not talking about polls, surveys etc.

Then what are you talking about, credit ratings?

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Boycott Guinness!

I thought you were a but lite guy, no? (just kidding)

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Then what are you talking about, credit ratings?

 

I'm not actually sure. The poster I replied to waffled something about loss of support blah blah blah. Wanted to understand what  this implies in real terms.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Morch

[Neeranam]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Well....maybe don't need to take things that far. I'm also partial to Irish Whiskey, so a bit harsh.

Real whisky has no 'e'!

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Real whisky has no 'e'!

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1314199-israel-losing-global-support-over-gaza-bombing-biden-says/page/13/#comment-18582868

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not actually sure. The poster I replied to waffled something about loss of support blah blah blah. Wanted to understand how this applies in real terms.

The only think that matters right now is official support, and that (I do not think) is suffering. But the lack of support by US people under 40 is a significant concern, and it will get nothing but worse as long there is no significant change in education, which I doubt very much there will be. 

[Neeranam]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Could you cite actual effect of this supposed loss of support? Lower international standing?

 

Strained relationships and a decrease in political support on the global stage.

Economically, the loss of support has also been felt. Some nations and businesses have reconsidered or altered their trade and investment relationships with Israel in response to concerns about human rights abuses and violations of international law.

Israel is facing isolation in certain international forums(and even Aseannow ) .

Decisions at the United Nations and other multilateral institutions have at times been less favorable to Israel due to the erosion of support. One could also cite Amnesty INternational and other Human Rights groups that I've mentioned previously.

Culturally, there has been an impact as well, with increased calls for academic and cultural boycotts. Various artists, academics, and intellectuals have chosen to distance themselves from Israeli institutions as a form of protest against the government's policies.

 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1314199-israel-losing-global-support-over-gaza-bombing-biden-says/page/13/#comment-18582868

?

[coolcarer]

30 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

In the Israel-Hamas war, history and propaganda repeat themselves

 

To recite the Goldstone Report is not to suggest that Israel is all wrong and Hamas is all right; the point is the sense of deja vu it conveys

 

Like history, propaganda repeats itself.

What is most baffling about the report is not its chief author’s apparent dismissal of some of its findings or the political furore it provoked. It is simply this: why do the US, the UK and the EU still rush to accept Israel’s version of events as gospel?

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/11/24/justine-mccarthy-in-the-israel-hamas-war-history-and-propaganda-repeat-themselves/

😴2009 report with a recent opinion piece attached. No citation in the piece to her claims on what the  US, UK, and EU believe.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Strained relationships and a decrease in political support on the global stage.

Economically, the loss of support has also been felt. Some nations and businesses have reconsidered or altered their trade and investment relationships with Israel in response to concerns about human rights abuses and violations of international law.

Israel is facing isolation in certain international forums(and even Aseannow ) .

Decisions at the United Nations and other multilateral institutions have at times been less favorable to Israel due to the erosion of support. One could also cite Amnesty INternational and other Human Rights groups that I've mentioned previously.

Culturally, there has been an impact as well, with increased calls for academic and cultural boycotts. Various artists, academics, and intellectuals have chosen to distance themselves from Israeli institutions as a form of protest against the government's policies.

 

 

That's just more of the same waffle.

You originally claimed this was a 15 years plus trend. Now you seem to associate it with the war.

So maybe first make up your mind which is it, then try to support it with something concrete.

As for Aseannow - you live in lalaland.

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The only think that matters right now is official support, and that (I do not think) is suffering. But the lack of support by US people under 40 is a significant concern, and it will get nothing but worse as long there is no significant change in education, which I doubt very much there will be. 

 

The only thing that matters - in your opinion. Israel is actually pretty familiar with dual faced relations. Take Turkey, with Erdogan often having a go at Israel, whereas economic ties are less effected by this. Same goes with many ME Arab countries, even those officially not having relations with Israel, but a whole lot going on anyway (Saudi Arabia, previously the Emirates).

 

I think young voters grow older, become middle aged voters and moderate their views.

 

Again, poster was about a supposed 15 + years trend.

[Neeranam]

39 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

In the Israel-Hamas war, history and propaganda repeat themselves

 

To recite the Goldstone Report is not to suggest that Israel is all wrong and Hamas is all right; the point is the sense of deja vu it conveys

 

Some commentators refer to this as 'mowing the law' policy - recurring conflicts which have left a devastating impact on the lives of Gazans.

This term is often used to describe the cyclical nature of military engagements, where Israel engages in large-scale military operations to address perceived security threats.

The toll on civilians in Gaza during the past two Israeli-Gaza wars, as well as the current 'war' is deeply troubling.

The concept of "mowing the lawn" implies a cyclical and repetitive nature to the conflicts, with a pattern that suggests a lack of sustainable solutions to the underlying issues. One could argue that a more nuanced and diplomatic approach is needed to address the root causes of the conflict and prevent the recurrent suffering of the Gazan civilian population.

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

😴2009 report with a recent opinion piece attached. No citation in the piece to her claims on what the  US, UK, and EU believe.

 

It's a Justine McCarthy column. What others think (unless it's along the same lines) doesn't apply.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The only thing that matters - in your opinion. Israel is actually pretty familiar with dual faced relations. Take Turkey, with Erdogan often having a go at Israel, whereas economic ties are less effected by this. Same goes with many ME Arab countries, even those officially not having relations with Israel, but a whole lot going on anyway (Saudi Arabia, previously the Emirates).

 

I think young voters grow older, become middle aged voters and moderate their views.

 

Again, poster was about a supposed 15 + years trend.

 

I think if you look at polls comparing kids today and kids 15 years ago you might be more concerned. 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's just more of the same waffle.

You originally claimed this was a 15 years plus trend. Now you seem to associate it with the war.

So maybe first make up your mind which is it, then try to support it with something concrete.

As for Aseannow - you live in lalaland.

 

It is a 15 + year trend. What makes you think I am associating what I wrote with the current 'war'?

And stop the flames, you are getting tiresome.

[Morch]

Just now, Neeranam said:

It is a 15 + year trend. What makes you think I am associating what I wrote with the current 'war'?

And stop the flames, you are getting tiresome.

 

No, it's you saying it's a 15 + year trend, which you fail to support or demonstrate.

Complaints about flames coming from a troll....amusing.

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Well....maybe don't need to take things that far. I'm also partial to Irish Whiskey, so a bit harsh.

I was being a bit flip.

You may have noticed that the oppression fashionista River to the Sea crowd are now boycotting a head spinning number of companies for largely very questionable reasons. 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I think if you look at polls comparing kids today and kids 15 years ago you might be more concerned. 

 

 

 

 

 

That's one of them sentences that could mean anything.

I think people do and say a whole lot of things when they are young, then they grow up.

Today's technology and social structures allow more of this than before.

[coolcarer]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is a 15 + year trend. What makes you think I am associating what I wrote with the current 'war'?

And stop the flames, you are getting tiresome.

You threaten to block him but can’t really do it as you’d have nobody else to talk to as you already blocked them all. Hilarious. 😅

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is a 15 + year trend. What makes you think I am associating what I wrote with the current 'war'?

And stop the flames, you are getting tiresome.

 

Several of the usual suspects are completely unable to distinguish between comment on subject material and flames. They have no defence. While continuously posting Israeli propaganda without balance or nuance they invite push back. The push back I give them is to point out Israeli war crimes. The more I see this sort of behaviour the more I make it a point to post articles critical of Israel.

 

It's blindingly obvious that it is all one side of this argument doing the flaming and they are getting more and more strident.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's one of them sentences that could mean anything.

I think people do and say a whole lot of things when they are young, then they grow up.

Today's technology and social structures allow more of this than before.

So you think that overall, Americans support Israel about as much today as they did thirty years ago?