What do you think the impact of tax on foreign income will be on Pattaya?

[Villapete]

I am curious as to how this will play out both for myself and for the local economy. My thoughts are that it will initially be a mess, followed by an economic dip, followed by a rejig of the plan. What are your thoughts?

[scottiejohn]

You mean the same end result as every new "initiative" published by this so called Government!

[Pattaya57]

What tax on foreign income? Never heard of it. 

 

Oh wait, is this like the other hundred new tax threads with no facts so will be soon be sent to the finance forum where the tax nerds can endlessly debate the no facts part? 

[KhunLA]

It would only depend if you are affected by it.  Personally haven't given it much thought.

[vangrop]

they will never ever never be able to implement such a complex issue.

[scubascuba3]

No impact if it doesn't happen.

 

They should shelve the idea and just tax people earning income here

[Mike Lister]

Zero impact, don't expect a slump in property prices because it wont happen, guaranteed.

[bkk6060]

Depends on where you are from and the income.  UK pensioners for example rain in a gigantic 30,000 b a month.

With the 60,000 b personal writeoff allowance here, that leaves them around 300,000 b a year.  That is taxed at 5% so not a huge tax burden.  Probably a few less beers, less ciggies, and bargirls once every 2 weeks instead of once a week.

In the end, could actually create some healthier lifestyle habits.

[Mike Lister]

26 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Depends on where you are from and the income.  UK pensioners for example rain in a gigantic 30,000 b a month.

With the 60,000 b personal writeoff allowance here, that leaves them around 300,000 b a year.  That is taxed at 5% so not a huge tax burden.  Probably a few less beers, less ciggies, and bargirls once every 2 weeks instead of once a week.

In the end, could actually create some healthier lifestyle habits.

Over age 65 allowances and deductions total over 500k per year. 60k personal allowance, 190k over age 65 allowance, 50% or 100k pension allowance, 150k zero rated tax.

 

 

[scottiejohn]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Over age 65 allowances and deductions total over 500k per year. 60k personal allowance, 190k over age 65 allowance, 50% or 100k pension allowance, 150k zero rated tax.

Are you saying that a single  UK retiree >65 on full state pension will NOT pay any tax in Thailand?

 

 

[CartagenaWarlock]

23 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

They should shelve the idea and just tax people earning income here

Wealthy Thais can avoid capital gain taxes in the US and in Thailand as well.

[TICINO]

Theoretically next year we should be better. Now it's all just speculation.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Villapete said:

What are your thoughts?

No impact at all. 

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, TICINO said:

Theoretically next year we should be better. Now it's all just speculation.

How do you figure that?

[HauptmannUK]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Depends on where you are from and the income.  UK pensioners for example rain in a gigantic 30,000 b a month.

With the 60,000 b personal writeoff allowance here, that leaves them around 300,000 b a year.  That is taxed at 5% so not a huge tax burden.  Probably a few less beers, less ciggies, and bargirls once every 2 weeks instead of once a week.

In the end, could actually create some healthier lifestyle habits.

I doubt there are many guys living in Thailand on just the basic UK state pension. The vast majority will have additional private pensions, investment and property income etc. 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

You mean the same end result as every new "initiative" published by this so called Government!

Perhaps go the same way as the Soi Buakhao one-way project!

[mran66]

Limited if any. Interesting to follow whether this announcement will live to implementation though, or pulled back during the year. 

[BigStar]

No noticeable effect whatsoever.

 

This panic is reminiscent of the panic in 2003 when visa fees were increased. Oh, the screaming, moaning, teeth gnashing, and kickers soiling. It supposedly meant that all the Golden Egg Layers would be forced to exit, the Thai economy would collapse, and the cities would empty out as all Thais went back to working in rice fields.

 

Meanwhile Thai developers were working on Siam Paragon, LOL.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, mran66 said:

Limited if any. Interesting to follow whether this announcement will live to implementation though, or pulled back during the year. 

It seems to me that all we've heard is intent to pass the law taxing foreign income brought into Thailand by Thai citizens and resident foreigners effective Jan. 1, 2024.

But I don't recall the bill going to the House of Parliament for even its first reading for a vote, much less a second reading/debate that would follow if amendments or objection is raised. And all that assumes a quorem. Even after House passage mustn't there be approval by the Senate and publication in the Royal Gazette? 

At this late date, it would be reasonable to defer this bill until 2025.

[mran66]

46 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It seems to me that all we've heard is intent to pass the law taxing foreign income brought into Thailand by Thai citizens and resident foreigners effective Jan. 1, 2024.

But I don't recall the bill going to the House of Parliament for even its first reading for a vote, much less a second reading/debate that would follow if amendments or objection is raised. And all that assumes a quorem. Even after House passage mustn't there be approval by the Senate and publication in the Royal Gazette? 

At this late date, it would be reasonable to defer this bill until 2025.

 

My understanding is that the announcement would be a change of execution within existing tax law, not a new law, the law itself being vague enough having allowed the currently valid execution for tens of years even if the intent of the original law itself may have been what they now announced. Thus, they assumed it would not need to go thru a law change process.

 

However as the execution has been like it is for so long, I'm pretty sure some wealthy locals who use overseas vehicles to own the monopoly/oligopoly businesses to reduce their tax burden, will take this to court claiming it to be against the law due to length of the existing execution, i e de facto law that can not be changed without parliamentary process. 

 

Only time will tell. The real concern is that in few years they might go for global tax coverage as in most developed countries. That would be a bummer, though as long as e.g Malaysia and Philippines remain local taxation only, those with major issues would just spend less time in Thailand instead of paying taxes here, Thailand becoming the looser 

 

The tax percentage for average 1-2m a year funds brought in to cover living costs, is small enough not being a major issue

 

 

[kinyara]

A little bit of forward planning by bringing in enough money pre-Dec 31, 2 months before normal, to satisfy my annual extension timeframe and thereby not requiring any transfers in 2024, effectively means for me that any tax I would be likely to pay would be due in January 2026. That makes me relaxed about the situation, time for the dust to settle, the situation to be clarified/formalised/officially organised, and enough time to plan for viable future alternatives if I find the impact does actually have a significant financial impact on me.

 

 

[Expat68]

If it does happen!! Pattaya will probably the most affected 

[JMT42]

A silly idea won't happen. Are they going to try and tax all money coming into Thailand? Who decIdes what is classified as income?

[jaywalker2]

What's being ignored is what was said during the US Embassy seminar, which was that the ultimate intention of the Thai government is to tax all income earned by tax residents of Thailand. In other words, apparently they want to move to a tax on worldwide income and this is the first step.

 

The other major point is that initially it was assumed that this tax was mainly aimed at Thai people with money overseas. That appears not to  be the case and in reality they are deliberately targetting foreigners.

 

So the consequences could be severe if they follow through on these proposals. Even taxing remittances would have a big impact on the condo market, one would think, where foreign buyers play a significant role.

 

Even if the actual impact turns out to be small, the controversy this proposal has stirred up is bound to have negative consequences. Retirees will rethink retiring in Thailand, Diigital Nomads will move on to friendlier areas, and there will be less enthusiasm for investing in condos, parking large amongs of money in the local banks, and making plans to settle down  here if the rules can change so drastically overnight.

 

It's just bad policy.

[Mike Lister]

27 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

What's being ignored is what was said during the US Embassy seminar, which was that the ultimate intention of the Thai government is to tax all income earned by tax residents of Thailand. In other words, apparently they want to move to a tax on worldwide income and this is the first step.

 

The other major point is that initially it was assumed that this tax was mainly aimed at Thai people with money overseas. That appears not to  be the case and in reality they are deliberately targetting foreigners.

 

So the consequences could be severe if they follow through on these proposals. Even taxing remittances would have a big impact on the condo market, one would think, where foreign buyers play a significant role.

 

Even if the actual impact turns out to be small, the controversy this proposal has stirred up is bound to have negative consequences. Retirees will rethink retiring in Thailand, Diigital Nomads will move on to friendlier areas, and there will be less enthusiasm for investing in condos, parking large amongs of money in the local banks, and making plans to settle down  here if the rules can change so drastically overnight.

 

It's just bad policy.

Exactly how does it, "appear not to be the case and in reality they are deliberately targeting foreigners"? What have they said r done to make anyone believe this is the case?

 

The stated aim was to apply tax against taxpayers with overseas earnings that were previously not being taxed.

 

Edited

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, JMT42 said:

Who decIdes what is classified as income?

The RD official with an open brown envelope in his hand!

[topt]

14 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The stated aim was to apply tax against taxpayers with overseas earnings that were previously being taxed.

I take it you meant "not" being taxed?

 

I am also intrigued what @jaywalker2 has heard to make the statement he did..........

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, JMT42 said:

A silly idea won't happen. Are they going to try and tax all money coming into Thailand? Who decIdes what is classified as income?

Income is defined in the RD notes. 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37748.html

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, topt said:

I take it you meant "not" being taxed?

 

I am also intrigued what @jaywalker2 has heard to make the statement he did..........

Yes, sorry, not being taxed.

[scottiejohn]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Income is defined in the RD notes. 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37748.html

It might have helped if you had reference which article(s) were applicable!