Any US Social security recipients out there doing direct deposits?

[Sheryl]

Moved to the correct forum as nothing Bangkok-specific about this.

 

I have SS direct deposit coming in to my Thai bank account (Kasikorn). Payment originates at Federal Reserve Bank in NY, passes to Citibank Thailand and from there is an internal BahtNet transfer to my bank.

 

Frankly never looked at exchange rate before.  Looking at it now,  there is an exchange rate shown on the Credit Advice which is lower than  indicated per https://www.oanda.com/currency-converter/en

 

For example, on 3 February exchange rate applied was  33.7.  Should have been 34.4 or 34.5 depending on whether it was "buy" or "sell" USD which in turn I assume depends on where the conversion was done (?)

 

I cannot tell where the currency conversion took place - Federal Reserve Bank or Citibank Thailand. I also cannot really tell how to compare Citibank Thailand exchange rates to what is listed on oanda as it has three categories:

telegraphic transfer, cash and "on demand". https://www.citibank.co.th/THGCB/COA/frx/prefxratinq/flow.action

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

9 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

 

I am surprised there haven't been many responses. I did this about 10 years ago just to see if it would work. Unfortunately I forgot exactly what I did, but it was simple. No need to setup special accounts, etc. I think I just sent an ACH transfer to the NYC branch (using their branch code), but used my Thailand Bangkok Bank account number (the first 3 digits are the branch code, the rest is your acct #). It was that simple. Please don't try it without more conformation. As I said, I can't remember exactly. 

Things have changed since 10 years ago.   Things changed in 2019 with a U.S. Treasury Dept rule affecting ACH transfers "that leave the U.S." 

 

You can no longer do an ACH transfer from your USA bank to your Bangkok Bank acct in Thailand "unless" it's transmitted in  "International ACH Transaction (IAT)" format when funds are leaving the U.S. (like when the Bangkok Bank New York branch) relays a funds transfer to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch.   ACH IAT format is more extensive format than ACH Standard format....and very, very few U.S. banks use ACH IAT format except some U.S. banks do provide ACH IAT services for some businesses who need this service.  But for Joe the Plumber ACH transfers practically no U.S. bank will transmit an ACH transfer in ACH IAT format.  U.S. banks can "receive" ACH IAT transfers but just don't use ACH IAT format for outward transfer of funds.   If an ACH transfer is sent via the Bangkok Bank NY branch routing number and the transfer is not in ACH IAT format Bangkok Bank will reject the transfer back to the sending bank. 

 

However, there is one exception where U.S. govt agencies (like the SSA) ACH transfers not in ACH IAT format will still be accepted by Bangkok Bank NY and relayed on to your In-Thailand Bangkok Bank.  And as always, if it's a reoccurring U.S. govt payment like social security you must have a special/restricted acct at your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch otherwise it will be rejected. 

 

You can read more about the 2019 change starting at below Bankgok Bank webpage.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

Now you can still do a "domestic" wire to Bangkok Bank NY branch using their routing number and your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch account number and the NY branch will relay it to Thailand as a wire transfer includes additional info to satisfy the U.S. Treasury rule.  Plus, although a domestic wire still uses the ACH system it is sent in a different format, managed differently for a typical ACH transfer, it's more of a direct bank-to-bank transfer.  The downside to a domestic wire is it's typically carries a healthy sending fee.

 

Yeap, things have changed since 10 years ago.  The great majority of folks who use to do frequent ACH transfer from their U.S. banks to their Bangkok Bank acct (like me) had to switch to using money transfer services like Wise.

 

 

 

[Pib]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Moved to the correct forum as nothing Bangkok-specific about this.

 

I have SS direct deposit coming in to my Thai bank account (Kasikorn). Payment originates at Federal Reserve Bank in NY, passes to Citibank Thailand and from there is an internal BahtNet transfer to my bank.

 

Frankly never looked at exchange rate before.  Looking at it now,  there is an exchange rate shown on the Credit Advice which is lower than  indicated per https://www.oanda.com/currency-converter/en

 

For example, on 3 February exchange rate applied was  33.7.  Should have been 34.4 or 34.5 depending on whether it was "buy" or "sell" USD which in turn I assume depends on where the conversion was done (?)

 

I cannot tell where the currency conversion took place - Federal Reserve Bank or Citibank Thailand. I also cannot really tell how to compare Citibank Thailand exchange rates to what is listed on oanda as it has three categories:

telegraphic transfer, cash and "on demand". https://www.citibank.co.th/THGCB/COA/frx/prefxratinq/flow.action

 

 

The exchange occurs several business days before the payment date and the exchange rate is determined either by the U.S. Federal Reserve Kansas City "or" a U.S. Treasury contractor/processor bank.  Although the Kansas City Reserve determines the exchange rate for some countries it's the New York Reserve that will transmit the funds to all countries.   It depends on the country the money is going to as to whether the U.S. Fed does the exchange "or" a U.S. Treasury processor bank.  Citibank Global is currently the U.S. Treasury processor bank for IDD payments going to Thailand.

[rexpotter]

Wise used to be real good, but they have gone to hell recently. Zero Customer Service.  just started with Remitly, so far excellent. Better rate than Wise.

[PumpkinEater]

Thank for the info to all.

I tracked down what was happening to my $40-$60 USD every month on the SS to K bank direct deposits…

Seems that Fed Reserve sends the money to Citi Bank (USA) where it is converted to Thai Baht at the current days rate, then USA sends to Citi Bank Thailand, and then to my KBank account.

 

The “Lost Monies” I was told that Citi bank in the USA charges a fee (but they don’t indicate it anywhere).

 

Therefore I resumed my SS transfer to my USA bank and then use WISE to get approximately 70k baht to my K bank account. The fee is minimal with WISE and so far works good.

The Citi Bank scam is stopped! Heehee

 

Cheers!

[Pib]

1 hour ago, PumpkinEater said:

Thank for the info to all.

I tracked down what was happening to my $40-$60 USD every month on the SS to K bank direct deposits…

Seems that Fed Reserve sends the money to Citi Bank (USA) where it is converted to Thai Baht at the current days rate, then USA sends to Citi Bank Thailand, and then to my KBank account.

 

The “Lost Monies” I was told that Citi bank in the USA charges a fee (but they don’t indicate it anywhere).

 

Therefore I resumed my SS transfer to my USA bank and then use WISE to get approximately 70k baht to my K bank account. The fee is minimal with WISE and so far works good.

The Citi Bank scam is stopped! Heehee

 

Cheers!

 

There is no direct fee charged by Citibank for an IDD payment!!!...like a fee of Bt200, Bt300, 0.25%, or any type of sending fee.    However, the exchange rate used by Citibank will be different than another bank...that's where Citibank will make its profit....call it an indirect fee if you like.  But depending on how much your SSA payment is every month you are still better off total baht-in-your-account wise if you payment is at or below $1,125/month net....and you can have it sent to "any" Thai bank...and even to a joint Thai bank acct.   Now above $1,125 you would get just a little more baht to your Bangkok Bank acct if you were using the standard direct deposit method which uses the ACH transfer system routed thru the Bangkok Bank NY branch and it must be sent to a special/restricted Bangkok Bank acct....can not be sent to a regular Bangkok Bank acct nor any other Thai bank.

 

And the exchange rate Citibank uses meets the contract requirements they have with the US Treasury as Citibank is under contract with the US Treasury to complete the transfer and provide the exchange rate to certain countries (like Thailand) for International Direct Deposit (IDD) transfers for govt agencies like the SSA, Veteran's Administration, etc.   

 

For certain countries the US Federal Reserve Kansas City accomplishes the exchange and for certain countries the US Treasury processor bank will accomplish the exchange....in Thailand's case (and many other countries) Citibank has the contract to accomplish the exchange...get the transfer/payment processed to your bank account.

 

Since the last leg/final mile of an IDD transfer to Thailand is accomplished over the Thailand BAHTNET system the "receiving" bank, repeat, the receiving bank which would be the bank you have your acct at then charges a Bt100 BAHTNET direct receiving fee....just a standard fee within the Thai banking system relating to all BAHTNET transfers.

 

Refer back to my 5 Jan post which provides more details/info regarding IDD and ACH payments.

 

 

[tydoorman]

On 1/5/2024 at 7:33 AM, flexomike said:

I have been getting mine direct deposited to Bangkok Bank since July of 2016, mine is an ach deposit through Bangkok Bank New York, I get the TT rate for my deposit and the max they take out for the deposit is 500 baht, when I set up my account it was the only bank you could use and no atm card could be issued for it. I am guessing since yours is converted to baht before shipping that you have an IDD account which could have been set up at any major bank in Thailand with an ATM card, my wifes account is with Krung Thai and she has a card. This has worked great for both of us, always on time never an issue. Your problem must be on the US end. I use my account for the monthly income method for Immigration.

 

nut its an account with no ATM card and you go and transfer to your bank account with an ATM right what type of account is this because I need to open one when I switch to a type o retirement in two years

[tydoorman]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:35 AM, soisanuk said:

An alternative is to open a virtual account with Wise which will give you an ACH (Automated Clearing House) number to use for directing Social Security deposits to that account.  When the funds are received in the Wise account (in dollars), you can choose the time you want to have them convert the funds to Thai baht and send to your Thai bank account.

 

If you have a Bangkok Bank account, use the reason - long stay in Thailand - when asked for the reason for the transfer - currently it is the last item in the drop down menu showing the reasons.  This should ensure they use Bangkok Bank as the recipient bank for the transfer rather than sending it through one of their other partner banks (usually Kasikorn).  Bangkok Bank will record it with the FTT code which is used for deposits from a foreign source - beneficial if you are using the 65k+ baht per month method for Retirement Extensions at Thai Immigration.

so doing it the way you sandpit done the reason of long stay and when you go to immigration they will except it.  remember one thing wise just recently started excepting direct deposits from SSA in 2022 they did not because I was going to do that.  the bottom option funds for long stay and this will work with immigration when I get a letter from the bank showing min 65,000 baht a month. I won't need this for another 2 years but I am stilling would like to know please. 

[tydoorman]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:35 AM, soisanuk said:

An alternative is to open a virtual account with Wise which will give you an ACH (Automated Clearing House) number to use for directing Social Security deposits to that account.  When the funds are received in the Wise account (in dollars), you can choose the time you want to have them convert the funds to Thai baht and send to your Thai bank account.

 

If you have a Bangkok Bank account, use the reason - long stay in Thailand - when asked for the reason for the transfer - currently it is the last item in the drop down menu showing the reasons.  This should ensure they use Bangkok Bank as the recipient bank for the transfer rather than sending it through one of their other partner banks (usually Kasikorn).  Bangkok Bank will record it with the FTT code which is used for deposits from a foreign source - beneficial if you are using the 65k+ baht per month method for Retirement Extensions at Thai Immigration.

also does it allow you to spend that money right 

[sirineou]

I am retired , and I want simple.

My pensions are automatically deposited in BOA , when ever I need funds I transfer with Wise. Most simple least costly method

[flexomike]

44 minutes ago, tydoorman said:

nut its an account with no ATM card and you go and transfer to your bank account with an ATM right what type of account is this because I need to open one when I switch to a type o retirement in two years

There ere two ways to transfer, ACH which goes through Bangkok Bank only. Then there is IDD which can go through any bank in Thailand and this type of an account you can have a debit card

[G_Money]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I am retired , and I want simple.

My pensions are automatically deposited in BOA , when ever I need funds I transfer with Wise. Most simple least costly method

How long does it take for your transfers?

 

Mine used to take seconds but now for some unknown reasons it’s taking about 5 business days.

[gamb00ler]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:43 PM, riclag said:

I have my SS sent to BofA then I have

Charles Schwab withdraw The amount 

I designate . When the funds arrive in my Schwab acct((usually 3-4 days)

I go to the ATM and pull 30k baht at a time .

All fees are free, curtesy of Schwab. 

I just have my SS sent straight to Schwab.  One less transfer to manage.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, G_Money said:

How long does it take for your transfers?

 

Mine used to take seconds but now for some unknown reasons it’s taking about 5 business days.

Is it all the time? Because most of the time I don't have any problems

Usually it takes a couple of minutes. Sometime  it takes a day or two but not often.

But before you agree the transfer their system tells you how long it will take.  Does the Wise system tell you it will take 5 days , or is the delay perhaps an issue with your bank here. 

I transfer or from BOA to Kasikorn,never any delays, With Bangkok bank I had some delays. 

I just made a transfer  yesterday from BOA to Kasikorn and it took only minutes. 

Did you call W  ise? Every time I called them they were very helpful. Mostly for lodging on issues and once I needed to confirm my identity.  

[G_Money]

11 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Is it all the time? Because most of the time I don't have any problems

Usually it takes a couple of minutes. Sometime  it takes a day or two but not often.

But before you agree the transfer their system tells you how long it will take.  Does the Wise system tell you it will take 5 days , or is the delay perhaps an issue with your bank here. 

I transfer or from BOA to Kasikorn,never any delays, With Bangkok bank I had some delays. 

I just made a transfer  yesterday from BOA to Kasikorn and it took only minutes. 

Did you call W  ise? Every time I called them they were very helpful. Mostly for lodging on issues and once I needed to confirm my identity.  

In the past it took seconds.  Past several months it’s taken at least 5 business days.

 

Initially it says seconds, then a few pages later into the transaction it says it will take longer than expected.  
 

I’m sending from a credit union vs a bank to my Kasikorn bank.  Not sure if that makes a difference.

 

Haven’t tried calling them for this issue but may if I’m not put on hold forever.

 

[tydoorman]

1 hour ago, G_Money said:

How long does it take for your transfers?

 

Mine used to take seconds but now for some unknown reasons it’s taking about 5 business days.

which reason are you using. I can pay for service and it goes in 20 seconds if I use long stay reason it taks like 3 days 

[G_Money]

28 minutes ago, tydoorman said:

which reason are you using. I can pay for service and it goes in 20 seconds if I use long stay reason it taks like 3 days 

I use long term stay in Thailand so it shows as coming from abroad for retirement extensions. 

[tydoorman]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:13 PM, G_Money said:

How long does it take for your transfers?

 

Mine used to take seconds but now for some unknown reasons it’s taking about 5 business days.

it depends how you send it. if I send pay for services it takes seconds. sending it for long term stay it takes me like 2 to 5 days 

[G_Money]

16 hours ago, tydoorman said:

it depends how you send it. if I send pay for services it takes seconds. sending it for long term stay it takes me like 2 to 5 days 

I wonder what the reason is for the differences.

[treetops]

1 hour ago, G_Money said:

I wonder what the reason is for the differences.

The new at the time reason of sending funds for long term stay was introduced in order to ensure (as far as possible) that the funds would arrive with the designation that they have come from overseas, to satisfy certain immigration requirements.

 

Prior to that users had to call (Transfer)Wise to tag their account to ensure this happened, and the transfer process is handled differently to ensure the overseas designation is realised.

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:38 PM, retarius said:

On the new taxing of international transfers, I was told by two US accountants over here that the US has an agreement signed in 1998 that prevents Thailand from taxing US SS payments. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Here is a simplified explanation... US Expat Taxes in Thailand: Your CPA-Approved 2024 Guide (brighttax.com)

[G_Money]

3 hours ago, treetops said:

The new at the time reason of sending funds for long term stay was introduced in order to ensure (as far as possible) that the funds would arrive with the designation that they have come from overseas, to satisfy certain immigration requirements.

 

Prior to that users had to call (Transfer)Wise to tag their account to ensure this happened, and the transfer process is handled differently to ensure the overseas designation is realised.

Sounds reasonable however I’ve been sending “long term stay in Thailand “ for a few years and always took seconds until several months ago.

 

I’ve read other senders from the USA still getting their funds deposited in seconds, some longer.

 

Flip a coin.

[treetops]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:39 AM, G_Money said:

Sounds reasonable however I’ve been sending “long term stay in Thailand “ for a few years and always took seconds until several months ago.

 

I’ve read other senders from the USA still getting their funds deposited in seconds, some longer.

 

Flip a coin.

Yes, transfers from the USA appear to be a bit different.  My description of the procedure and it's history may not apply there.

[Danderman123]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:34 AM, PeterA said:

I have my SS put into a US bank. Then I use Wise to transfer to me here to a Thai bank. Only fees are via Wise.

Exactly what I do.

 

I transfer the exact amount of my Social Security payment to my Thai bank every month. Since I pay taxes on my Social Security in the US, the transferred amount is tax free in Thailand.

[PumpkinEater]

SS transfer to my US bank account and a WISE transfer (>65k) to my K bank  is the least expensive and very easy way to go  IMHO.

Cheers!

[mania]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:26 PM, tydoorman said:

it depends how you send it. if I send pay for services it takes seconds. sending it for long term stay it takes me like 2 to 5 days 

Not sure when the last time was that you tried this but it no longer works (even for services/money to family etc)

 

The reason is Wise now uses yet another service called PLAID

Plaid is a financial services company based in San Francisco, California. The company builds a data transfer network that powers fintech and digital finance products. Plaid's product, a technology platform, enables applications to connect with users’ bank accounts

 

So it depends on if your bank even allows plaid in the first place. If it does you now need to allow yet another app to access your info & make the transfer to Wise. Wise then does there usual thing & yes in seconds can be done

 

If your bank does not allow PLAID or you don't want yet another possible data leak your trans will take 3-5 days

Edited April 3 by mania

[soisanuk]

Wise is connected to my US Bank.  When I initiate a transfer, it usually takes only a few seconds before Wise has the funds, no delay at that end.

 

When I order a transfer on a weekday before 9am, the funds arrive in my Bangkok Bank account around 2pm the same day.  If after 9am, it usually arrives the following weekday (M-F) around 2pm.  If that weekday is a Thai holiday, then it will arrive the weekday following.

[Thailandbuckeye]

I originally signed up for direct deposit at my U.S. bank, I switched to Bangkok Bank for the 65000 for my visa. I nolonger need the deposit as I have a LTR visa. Since I am unhappy with  the exchange rate into Thailand I am trying to change my direct deposit from Thailand back to my bank in the U.S.

 

In contacting Social Security one of their security questions is what is the routing number for Bangkok Bank. I gave them 026008691 and that does not match what they have on file. My original form show a Swift code on the form sent to FBU in the Philippines. 
 

Since  the banks are closed at the moment I was hopeful someone on here has possibly run into this problem and how was it solved. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

TB

[Thailandbuckeye]

After further research and rereading this forum I see that Citibank may be involved in the transfer. I  will call SSA again tonight and try the Citibank routing number(s). If that fails I will contact the Manila FBU and hopefully they can tell me how this was set up.

[Pib]

12 hours ago, Thailandbuckeye said:

I originally signed up for direct deposit at my U.S. bank, I switched to Bangkok Bank for the 65000 for my visa. I nolonger need the deposit as I have a LTR visa. Since I am unhappy with  the exchange rate into Thailand I am trying to change my direct deposit from Thailand back to my bank in the U.S.

 

In contacting Social Security one of their security questions is what is the routing number for Bangkok Bank. I gave them 026008691 and that does not match what they have on file. My original form show a Swift code on the form sent to FBU in the Philippines. 
 

Since  the banks are closed at the moment I was hopeful someone on here has possibly run into this problem and how was it solved. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

TB

 

Since you said your original DD form showed a "SWIFT" code that means you were signed up for DD via the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program which uses the SWIFT system (uses SWIFT codes to identify the bank); you were not signed up for the standard DD program that uses the Automated Clearing House (ACH) system which uses "routing numbers" to identify the bank.   Direct deposit via IDD and ACH are two completely separate funds transfer systems....two different animals....it like riding in a taxi vs a bus...riding a train vs a plane....two different funds transfer systems.

 

The SWIFT code for Bangkok Bank is:  BKKBTHBK "or" BKKBTHJBKXXX.   Either one works fine....the XXX is just an extended version of the basic code...either one works fine. Most people probably just use the basic code without the XXX added on.  

 

The ACH Routing Number for Bangkok Bank is: 026008681