And the next brake failure news story will be......

[London Lowf]

I was following a Smart bus on the Kamala-Surin road earlier today and the sound of the brakes screeching was truly ear-splitting.

 

Don't the drivers/owners in Thailand understand that this is a warning sign? The pads have probably worn away completely or else there is some other major fault with the brake system.

 

I despair of these people!

 

[richard_smith237]

An inherently reactive rather than proactive populace and law enforcement culture does nothing other than enable the tragic events many of us onlookers (posting in these forums) find predictable and inevitable. 

 

It is often said by Thai's that 'Farang thing too much'....  and in some aspects thats true, but its also a very damaging aspect of Thai Culture is that it could be argued that 'Thai don't think enough'....  I'm not wishing to use that as a Thai-bash (although some will surely accuse me of that), but as a simple observation of why we see perfectly avoidable tragedies unfold with a degree of frequency and repeatability many of us find astonishing. 

 

 

[Maybole]

Brake pads have a metal tag on them that is designed to contact the disc when the wear reaches its limit. This is what causes tie screech. My old Volvo (1989 model) also had and electrical system which in which the tag completed a circuit and lit up a warning light on the instrument panel.

[NoDisplayName]

You're overthinking!

 

If the vehicle stops, then the brakes work.

What more do you want?

[London Lowf]

4 hours ago, Maybole said:

This is what causes tie screech.

 

No, that causes a much gentler noise. When I say screech I am not exaggerating - brakes only make that noise when the pads and warning strips are completely shot or thed caliper is falling off.

 

Trust me, I know about this stuff

[London Lowf]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It is often said by Thai's that 'Farang thing too much'....  and in some aspects thats true, but its also a very damaging aspect of Thai Culture is that it could be argued that 'Thai don't think enough'....  I'm not wishing to use that as a Thai-bash (although some will surely accuse me of that), but as a simple observation of why we see perfectly avoidable tragedies unfold with a degree of frequency and repeatability many of us find astonishing. 

 

You have hit the nail on the head!

 

[London Lowf]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

You're overthinking!

 

If the vehicle stops, then the brakes work.

What more do you want?

 

So, you are very obviously Thai

 

[stoner]

london....can you also give me the lotto numbers for tonight. you on point son.....not even a day later.

 

 

[steve187]

4 hours ago, London Lowf said:

 

No, that causes a much gentler noise. When I say screech I am not exaggerating - brakes only make that noise when the pads and warning strips are completely shot or thed caliper is falling off.

 

Trust me, I know about this stuff

come on, how often do brake calipers fall off, and if they fell off there would be no screeching noise

[2baht]

9 hours ago, London Lowf said:

I despair of these people!

 

Don't! They will never get it together! 

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, stoner said:

london....can you also give me the lotto numbers for tonight. you on point son.....not even a day later.

 

 

 

Another bus will be down a ravine somewhere in Thailand within a week...  

A Taxi will have found a bag full of cash on the back-seat, shortly after a netizen outcry following some taxi scam...

Someone in a position of power will have caused a serious accident while heavily intoxicated...

A pedestrian will get hit and seriously injured / killed on a crossing no one wanted to stop for...

Thai Airways will re-structure, starting off by selling old planes no one wants to purchase...

The Government will announce a new method of extracting further money from tourists with some form of tax (hotel tax / entry tax / departure tax etc)...

A pit-bull will escape and attack and maim / kill someone in the street...

A lady-boy will snatch the necklace off an Indian Tourist...

A Kuwaiti will be killed ragging is 'big bike' in Pattaya...

A 'foreigner' will fall from to his death from a Pattaya Condo...

 

 

 

Sadly - these events are way more predictable than any lottery result. 

 

 

[London Lowf]

6 hours ago, steve187 said:

come on, how often do brake calipers fall off, and if they fell off there would be no screeching noise

 

I did say "falling" rather than "fell" meaning to convey the idea of the caliper coming loose and being wedged against the disc. But, as you correctly pointed out, a highly unlikely event.

 

 

[Jack Cook]

It is Thailand and to add to that it is Surin. What else would you expect. Common sense and caring, really now 😂😂😂

[brianthainess]

On 1/10/2024 at 10:28 PM, Maybole said:

Brake pads have a metal tag on them that is designed to contact the disc when the wear reaches its limit. This is what causes tie screech. My old Volvo (1989 model) also had and electrical system which in which the tag completed a circuit and lit up a warning light on the instrument panel.

I doubt busses have brake pads, more likely brake shoes worn down and drums full of dust.

[Surasak]

Genuine Thai attitude. So it makes a lot of noise, it still works. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'!

[MangoKorat]

On 1/10/2024 at 2:25 PM, London Lowf said:

Don't the drivers/owners in Thailand understand that this is a warning sign?

I'm not going to spend ages explaining what causes it but screetching brakes are not actually a sign of a fault or even worn brakes. (ex mechanic)

 

However, your general sentiment - that they don't look after vehicles properly - especiallly commercial vehicles is bang on.

[MangoKorat]

On 1/10/2024 at 7:50 PM, London Lowf said:

When I say screech I am not exaggerating - brakes only make that noise when the pads and warning strips are completely shot or thed caliper is falling off.

Nah they don't - worn pads grind and graunch.  Screeching is nowt to do with wear - you can put a new set of pads or shoes in and they can screech from the off.

 

When have to ever known a caliper fall off?  That would be a new one on me and I've taken a few thousand apart.

 

Most brake wear indicators don't work, the wiring usually fails well before the pads are low enough to earth the circuit.

[MangoKorat]

5 hours ago, brianthainess said:

I doubt busses have brake pads, more likely brake shoes worn down and drums full of dust.

Full of dust is one reason yes.  Overheating is another.

 

Screeching shoes, throroughly clean shoes, drums and backplates then file down the corner of the leading edges.  Discs - make sure the sliders are working correctly - no excessive corrosion build up on the pad retainers (friction points) - then apply a little Copper Grease on the back of the pads where they meet the caliper pistons and a tiny amount on the pad plate friction points.

Edited January 12 by MangoKorat

[Jimjim1]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:11 AM, steve187 said:

come on, how often do brake calipers fall off, and if they fell off there would be no screeching noise

He did not say it had fallen off, he said falling off two entirely different things, and he is correct in that the screeching is a precursor to the eventual total destruction of the front or back of the vehicle before it smashes into whatever gets in it’s uncontrolled brakeless way.

Also they can come off as a friend found out to the cost of the garage who fitted brand new calipers but did not torque the bolts, luckily for my friend it happened at low speed as he traversed a roundabout.

[novacova]

On 1/11/2024 at 2:52 AM, London Lowf said:

 

You have hit the nail on the head!

 

You hit the head on the nail!

 

On 1/10/2024 at 9:25 PM, London Lowf said:

The pads have probably worn away completely or else there is some other major fault with the brake system.

Not necessarily worn away, most likely not. Worn brakes, metal to metal usually makes a grinding sound and not terribly loud. Screeching sound is most likely the pads, pad plates and calipers vibrating against each other, or debris in the brakes.

[London Lowf]

So, the "experts" seem to agree - screeching brakes on a public Thai bus while descending a steep hill is absolutely nothing to worry about!

 

Quite frankly, I'll think that I'll stick with my technical ignorance.

Edited January 12 by London Lowf

[The Old Bull]

On 1/10/2024 at 10:28 PM, Maybole said:

Brake pads have a metal tag on them that is designed to contact the disc when the wear reaches its limit. This is what causes tie screech. My old Volvo (1989 model) also had and electrical system which in which the tag completed a circuit and lit up a warning light on the instrument panel.

The bigger vehicles like 18 wheelers have slack adjusters on the brakes. You have to crawl under and tighten them up as the pads wear out.Looks like they are too lazy to do this.

[MangoKorat]

22 hours ago, Jimjim1 said:

He did not say it had fallen off, he said falling off two entirely different things, and he is correct in that the screeching is a precursor to the eventual total destruction of the front or back of the vehicle before it smashes into whatever gets in it’s uncontrolled brakeless way.

Also they can come off as a friend found out to the cost of the garage who fitted brand new calipers but did not torque the bolts, luckily for my friend it happened at low speed as he traversed a roundabout.

You don't really need to torque caliper bolts, officially they should be changed each time they are taken out.  New bolts are usually pre-coated with dry thread lock and often come in a brake pad replacement kit. If the bolts are re-used or are not coated, liquid thread lock should be applied and allowed to dry before using the car.

 

In 25 years in the motor trade, I never torqued caliper bolts - ever and I don't know anyone else who does.  Caliper bolts have a flat mating flange, when coated with thread lock, they simply need firmly tightening.

 

And before you quote me the torque figures, I'm talking real world - there are torque figures for just about every bolt on a car most are a waste of time unless you are a novice but nobody torques caliper bolts.  Caliper retaining frame bolts - yes, but again, most mechanics will simply use the well known figure of FT and use a strong bar.  They never come loose when set to FT and you'd have to use a strong bar over a metre long to snap one.

Edited January 13 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

21 hours ago, London Lowf said:

So, the "experts" seem to agree - screeching brakes on a public Thai bus while descending a steep hill is absolutely nothing to worry about!

Well its not nothing to worry about but its not a sign of worn out brake shoes.

[MangoKorat]

On 1/11/2024 at 12:11 AM, steve187 said:

come on, how often do brake calipers fall off, and if they fell off there would be no screeching noise

I think we are wasting our time Steve, I believe you 'know your onions' when it comes to cars - as do I.  I try my best to stick away from threads like this where all the armchair mechanics come out.

[Jimjim1]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:18 PM, MangoKorat said:

You don't really need to torque caliper bolts, officially they should be changed each time they are taken out.  New bolts are usually pre-coated with dry thread lock and often come in a brake pad replacement kit. If the bolts are re-used or are not coated, liquid thread lock should be applied and allowed to dry before using the car.

 

In 25 years in the motor trade, I never torqued caliper bolts - ever and I don't know anyone else who does.  Caliper bolts have a flat mating flange, when coated with thread lock, they simply need firmly tightening.

 

And before you quote me the torque figures, I'm talking real world - there are torque figures for just about every bolt on a car most are a waste of time unless you are a novice but nobody torques caliper bolts.  Caliper retaining frame bolts - yes, but again, most mechanics will simply use the well known figure of FT and use a strong bar.  They never come loose when set to FT and you'd have to use a strong bar over a metre long to snap one.

I have no intention of quoting you or denying you as you obviously know your stuff, however I was merely quoting from the engineers report as shown to me by my friend and as presented to his insurance company who I believe claimed from the garage’s insurance company for negligent work practice and the cost of a replacement vehicle, his being written off.

The report clearly stated that the calipers had not been torqued, his words right or wrong not mine.

One can only assume therefore that the use of the word Torque is very much a mute point in this matter.

 

[MangoKorat]

On 1/15/2024 at 4:42 AM, Jimjim1 said:

I have no intention of quoting you or denying you as you obviously know your stuff, however I was merely quoting from the engineers report as shown to me by my friend and as presented to his insurance company who I believe claimed from the garage’s insurance company for negligent work practice and the cost of a replacement vehicle, his being written off.

The report clearly stated that the calipers had not been torqued, his words right or wrong not mine.

One can only assume therefore that the use of the word Torque is very much a mute point in this matter.

 

In that particular case I would suggest that the bolts had simply been put in place and not tightened at all.  That also suggests that the repairer had not road tested the vehicle.  Personally, I would never return a vehicle to a customer, having had work done on the brakes, without road testing first.