Donald Trump's New York fraud trial wraps up, with millions of dollars on the line

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's been demonstrated that if Trump had put the money in a blind trust at the beginning he'd be much richer than he is now.

He managed to run a casino into the ground. Nuff said.

[billd766]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:04 PM, newbee2022 said:

2 walking wrecks you mean???

However, the Blog's name is Asian Now. Nothing to do with US. 

And this thread is in the world news which IS covered by Asean Now.

[Danderman123]

Trump was accused of presenting inaccurate financial reports to banks and insurers. That was the legal accusation that Trump was facing.

 

Does anyone now believe that Trump's reports were accurate?

 

If they were inaccurate, why were they inaccurate?

[beautifulthailand99]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:47 PM, BusyB said:

 

Thanks very much for the effort and understanding you put into this. It's explained a couple of things I hadn't known as well and I'm pretty well informed. Finance and biz was my beat in an earlier life.

 

It's just sad that the people who would benefit from your efforts aren't in the least bit interested in facts. They prefer the alternative variety - as if it's a choice.

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

[newbee2022]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

And this thread is in the world news which IS covered by Asean Now.

Then let's talk about the war criminals in US.🙏

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Then let's talk about the war criminals in US.🙏

Request a thread from the forum administrator, but keep in mind you’ll need a link to a reliable news source for the subject.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Request a thread from the forum administrator, but keep in mind you’ll need a link to a reliable news source for the subject.

 

 

Aka in Trump money the failing fake news sites (coughs) looks around......!

[impulse]

Interesting what Kevin O'Leary had to say on CNN Friday...

 

And so, that's what this case is all about. And by the way, forget about Trump. Every single real estate developer everywhere on earth does this. They always talk about their asset being worth a lot, and the bank says no. That's just the way it is.

So, in this case, what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm not pro or con, I don't care about the politics, who lost money? Nobody. The bank got paid back the construction finance loan and a new building was built. And if you're going to sue this case and win, you've got to sue every real estate developer everywhere. This is all they do. This is what they do all day long, every day.

So, I don't think this thing will ever survive appeal, regardless of what the fine is. This doesn't even make sense. 

 

The interview is all over the right wing blogosphere.  Being of a cynical nature, I looked on CNN to confirm that's what the guy actually said.  I dare anyone to try to find it on CNN.  They buried it.  Crickets. 

 

I finally found it buried in their "transcripts" section.  Had to Bing "Mr Wonderful" to find it.  But I guarantee, no CNN viewer will ever know about it.  Doesn't fit their narrative.

 

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/lcl/date/2024-01-11/segment/01

 

Edited January 14 by impulse

[placeholder]

51 minutes ago, impulse said:

Interesting what Kevin O'Leary had to say on CNN Friday...

 

And so, that's what this case is all about. And by the way, forget about Trump. Every single real estate developer everywhere on earth does this. They always talk about their asset being worth a lot, and the bank says no. That's just the way it is.

So, in this case, what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm not pro or con, I don't care about the politics, who lost money? Nobody. The bank got paid back the construction finance loan and a new building was built. And if you're going to sue this case and win, you've got to sue every real estate developer everywhere. This is all they do. This is what they do all day long, every day.

So, I don't think this thing will ever survive appeal, regardless of what the fine is. This doesn't even make sense. 

 

The interview is all over the right wing blogosphere.  Being of a cynical nature, I looked on CNN to confirm that's what the guy actually said.  I dare anyone to try to find it on CNN.  They buried it.  Crickets. 

 

I finally found it buried in their "transcripts" section.  Had to Bing "Mr Wonderful" to find it.  But I guarantee, no CNN viewer will ever know about it.  Doesn't fit their narrative.

 

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/lcl/date/2024-01-11/segment/01

 

Real estate developers may talk it up but the law abiding ones don't lie.. Trump lied repeatedly. He inflated the size of his apartment by almost 3 times its actual size. He claimed development rights for his vacation property in upstate NY but the fact is development rights had been signed away. That's just 2 of the lies he signed off on. They won't tell you that on Fox News.

Edited January 14 by placeholder

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Real estate developers may talk it up but the law abiding ones don't lie.. Trump lied repeatedly. He inflated the size of his apartment by almost 3 times its actual size. He claimed development rights for his vacation property in upstate NY but the fact is development rights had been signed away. That's just 2 of the lies he signed off on. They won't tell you that on Fox News.

 

I don't move in those circles, so I have to count on input from experts.  Reading the rest of the interaction, O'Leary doesn't seem to be a fan of The Donald.  But solely on the topic of the lawsuit, he's pretty clear.  This doesn't even make sense. 

 

 

[jollyhangmon]

 

Tired of winning yet ...?!

 

Anyway, here's the respective book, have a LOL:

 

> Tired of winning - Donald Trump And The End Of The Grand Old Party / Jonathan Karl / 2023 / 395 pages <

 

Tired of Winning_ Donald Trump - Jonathan Karl.pdf

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Real estate developers may talk it up but the law abiding ones don't lie.. Trump lied repeatedly. He inflated the size of his apartment by almost 3 times its actual size. He claimed development rights for his vacation property in upstate NY but the fact is development rights had been signed away. That's just 2 of the lies he signed off on. They won't tell you that on Fox News.

It's well known that he is a compulsive liar, and I saw another headline which I can't locate at the moment regarding Trump having to pay the New York Times legal fees of $400,000 in a case their reporters published in 2018 about his wealth and tax practices, which were "shady" to say the least.

 

The Times’ story said that Donald Trump and his father avoided gift and inheritance taxes by methods including setting up a sham corporation and undervaluing assets to tax authorities.

 

And Trump and the GOP supporters have the nerve to label Biden and his family, "the Biden crime family", but the difference is that Biden hasn't been convicted of anything yet!

 

I'm hoping that the orange clown will be fined a lot more for his lies and dishonest dealings.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Then let's talk about the war criminals in US.🙏

Go ahead, but not in this thread, which is about Donald Trump.

 

Trump may be many things, but he is not a war criminal AFAIK.

 

 

Start a new thread in the World News, but don't forget about the war criminals in Israel, Gaza or Russia will you.

Edited January 14 by billd766

[LosLobo]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Interesting what Kevin O'Leary had to say on CNN Friday...

 

And so, that's what this case is all about. And by the way, forget about Trump. Every single real estate developer everywhere on earth does this. They always talk about their asset being worth a lot, and the bank says no. That's just the way it is.

So, in this case, what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm not pro or con, I don't care about the politics, who lost money? Nobody. The bank got paid back the construction finance loan and a new building was built. And if you're going to sue this case and win, you've got to sue every real estate developer everywhere. This is all they do. This is what they do all day long, every day.

So, I don't think this thing will ever survive appeal, regardless of what the fine is. This doesn't even make sense. 

 

The interview is all over the right wing blogosphere.  Being of a cynical nature, I looked on CNN to confirm that's what the guy actually said.  I dare anyone to try to find it on CNN.  They buried it.  Crickets. 

 

I finally found it buried in their "transcripts" section.  Had to Bing "Mr Wonderful" to find it.  But I guarantee, no CNN viewer will ever know about it.  Doesn't fit their narrative.

 

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/lcl/date/2024-01-11/segment/01

 

"Who lost money?

 

Deutsche Bank did!

 

Donald Trump borrowed money from Deutsche Bank et alia for the construction of his Trump International Tower Chicago.

 

However, due to construction delays and the lack of sales, Trump defaulted on the loans owing Deutsche $334M including interest.

 

Trump unable to pay sued the bank for 'predatory lending practices' and Deutsche sued Trump for $334M.

 

During a private settlement in 2010, Trump was able to get most of the loan 'forgiven'.

 

There is speculation as to why Deutsche settled in this way, possibly as both had a common interest in illegal dealings with oligarchs with dirty money, obviously Deutsche had more to lose than Trump.

Trump’s $287M loans that he did not pay

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

"Who lost money?

 

Deutsche Bank did!

 

Is that case within the remit of the NY AG in 2024?

 

[LosLobo]

56 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Is that case within the remit of the NY AG in 2024?

 

Not directly.

Apologies, I erred here.

Through an editing error, I didn't indicate that the Trump default was likely outside the scope of this trial, as the loan was taken out in 2005, and he defaulted in or before 2010, as mentioned in my post.

It was obvious to anyone who has a knowledge of this case that the scope of the OP charges was limited to the 10 years from 2011 to 2021.

Though this episode would have been considered by Letitia James in one of her cases against Trump LLC for fraud, more likely because he failed to pay tax on the income from the 'forgiveness' of the loan.

 It also demonstrates Trump's MO of trying to 'screw' the banks and the taxpayer, with his 'Ponzi' schemes.

 

Edited January 14 by LosLobo

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

Interesting what Kevin O'Leary had to say on CNN Friday...

 

And so, that's what this case is all about. And by the way, forget about Trump. Every single real estate developer everywhere on earth does this. They always talk about their asset being worth a lot, and the bank says no. That's just the way it is.

So, in this case, what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm not pro or con, I don't care about the politics, who lost money? Nobody. The bank got paid back the construction finance loan and a new building was built. And if you're going to sue this case and win, you've got to sue every real estate developer everywhere. This is all they do. This is what they do all day long, every day.

So, I don't think this thing will ever survive appeal, regardless of what the fine is. This doesn't even make sense. 

 

The interview is all over the right wing blogosphere.  Being of a cynical nature, I looked on CNN to confirm that's what the guy actually said.  I dare anyone to try to find it on CNN.  They buried it.  Crickets. 

 

I finally found it buried in their "transcripts" section.  Had to Bing "Mr Wonderful" to find it.  But I guarantee, no CNN viewer will ever know about it.  Doesn't fit their narrative.

 

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/lcl/date/2024-01-11/segment/01

 

It’s what the law says that matters.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I don't move in those circles, so I have to count on input from experts.  Reading the rest of the interaction, O'Leary doesn't seem to be a fan of The Donald.  But solely on the topic of the lawsuit, he's pretty clear.  This doesn't even make sense. 

 

 

Yeah, penalizing asset valuation fraud is totally alien to you.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Yeah, penalizing asset valuation fraud is totally alien to you.

 

Just out of curiosity, how many times and against how many people has this particular law been used before Trump?

 

 

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Just out of curiosity, how many times and against how many people has this particular law been used before Trump?

 

 

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-29

 

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ny-supreme-court-appellate-division/2129396.html

 

Google is your friend.  Asset Valuation fraud is litigated a lot.

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I don't move in those circles, so I have to count on input from experts.  Reading the rest of the interaction, O'Leary doesn't seem to be a fan of The Donald.  But solely on the topic of the lawsuit, he's pretty clear.  This doesn't even make sense. 

 

 

Why do you think Kevin O'Leary is an expert? Is he a lawyer? As for his business experience, he originally made his money from software. I haven't seen any indication that he's an expert in real estate investment.

[impulse]

22 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-29

 

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ny-supreme-court-appellate-division/2129396.html

 

Google is your friend.  Asset Valuation fraud is litigated a lot.

 

 

One of 'em is a federal case.  No NY law seems to be quoted.  Not to mention, there were actual victims and losses.

 

The other is a lawsuit filed by a victim that actually had losses.

 

Not even close...  I mean the law that gives the NY AG standing to sue for damages when there were none...

 

 

Edited January 14 by impulse

[impulse]

57 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s what the law says that matters.

 

That's true.  But not what a partisan AG says.  We won't know what the law says for years, after the appeals.

 

[Danderman123]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

One of 'em is a federal case.  No NY law seems to be quoted.  Not to mention, there were actual victims and losses.

 

The other is a lawsuit filed by a victim that actually had losses.

 

Not even close...  I mean the law that gives the NY AG standing to sue for damages when there were none...

 

 

So, you agree that litigation over Asset Management fraud is a thing, and your only question is how bad was it?

 

I guess if you were a prosecutor, and you were investigating a Ponzi scheme, as long as everyone was making money, you wouldn't prosecute. You would just hold back until the first investor lost money, right?

 

Don't worry, the final report will list the losses from Trump's fraud. 

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Why do you think Kevin O'Leary is an expert? Is he a lawyer? As for his business experience, he originally made his money from software. I haven't seen any indication that he's an expert in real estate investment.

 

 

CNN seemed to hold him out as an expert...   From the transcript:  I'm going to ask an expert. Shark Tank's Kevin O'Leary, he's next.

 

Of course, that changed after he went off message.  I just read the transcript because they buried the interview so deep.  But she sure seemed to change her tune and become rather rude dismissing him...

 

 

[Danderman123]

There are posts here that indicate that some people here have no clue how business works.

 

Let's say you have a marginal business, and you need a cash infusion. Your books show your company is marginal. So, you fake the numbers, make your company out to be great, get loans, and are able to pay back the loans.

 

Even if your company pays back the loans, you still have committed asset valuation fraud. This is a major legal principle.

 

Any questions?

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So, you agree that litigation over Asset Management fraud is a thing, and your only question is how bad was it?

 

I guess if you were a prosecutor, and you were investigating a Ponzi scheme, as long as everyone was making money, you wouldn't prosecute. You would just hold back until the first investor lost money, right?

 

Don't worry, the final report will list the losses from Trump's fraud. 

 

There is no prosecutor in a civil trial.  Just a plaintiff and a defendant.  And I've never heard of an award for damages if nobody was damaged.  Until Trump.

 

[Danderman123]

Let me try this a different way.

 

A friend asks to borrow money. He hands you the Chanote to his house as collateral. You lend him the money, and he pays you back.

 

Later you find out the Chanote wasn't real.

 

Are you okay with that? 

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

There is no prosecutor in a civil trial.  Just a plaintiff and a defendant.  And I've never heard of an award for damages if nobody was damaged.  Until Trump.

 

Simple question: if a Ponzi scheme is detected before anyone loses money, is it criminal?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:24 AM, Tug said:

Old Donnie is being run out of his home town on a rail not allowed to do business in NY getting fined north of 300 million I wonder if he’s tired of winning yet!

You've already seen the judge's ruling that hasn't yet been made?