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Netanyahu publicly rejects US push for Palestinian state


CharlieH

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58 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas first, nothing can be done while they are still active and running Gaza. 

 

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas.

 

 

Kind of like putting the horse before the cart.  First things, first. 

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Well I guess this topic is obviously about Netanyahu and his goals or rather solutions for the end of the war. I also don't agree with him nor do I agree with many of his statements. Its clear that if there was an election today he would be ousted pretty quickly as without looking I think his popularity is down to around 20% or so, maybe a little more. He should obviously step down when this is over or before simply because he was at the helm when this massive security blunder allowed the attack to take place. That said, there is overwhelming support in Israel from the population to carry on the war until it is finished, with Netanyahu there or not. 

 

Whatever happens the 2 state solution remains elusive and if it happens which I hope it does, it will not be for a long time yet and only after the current phase of the hostilities are over.

 

The two-state solution is presented publicly by the world's diplomats and politicians as a silver bullet to end a conflict which has raged - one way or another - for decades.

But, despite taking part in this dance, most privately know it is dead, or is at best on life support.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-leaders-love-to-talk-of-a-two-state-solution-but-middle-east-silver-bullet-feels-further-away-than-ever-13051510

 

I also agree with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas who says there can be “no security and stability in the region” without a Palestinian state.

 

Dismantling Hamas and returning hostages are still the goals however and as the new EU Parliament resolution released just a couple of days ago stated:

 

In a resolution that showed significant support for Israel, the European Parliament calls for a permanent ceasefire after all hostages are “immediately and unconditionally released” and “the terrorist organization Hamas is dismantled.”

The resolution was adopted by 312 votes in favor, 131 against and 72 abstentions.

At the same time, the MEPs denounce “the disproportionate Israeli military response, which has caused a civilian death toll on an unprecedented scale.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/european-parliament-backs-ceasefire-resolution-contingent-on-hostages-release-hamass-ouster/

 

I am with the above resolution at the moment, everything else at this stage to me is noise. The resolution seems fair and is also hard hitting for Israel with not just the above conditions, those are for the ceasefire, here is a little more detail, that includes demands for 2 state solution etc.

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240112IPR16776/israel-hamas-war-meps-call-for-a-permanent-ceasefire-under-two-conditions

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29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well I guess this topic is obviously about Netanyahu and his goals or rather solutions for the end of the war. I also don't agree with him nor do I agree with many of his statements. Its clear that if there was an election today he would be ousted pretty quickly as without looking I think his popularity is down to around 20% or so, maybe a little more. He should obviously step down when this is over or before simply because he was at the helm when this massive security blunder allowed the attack to take place. That said, there is overwhelming support in Israel from the population to carry on the war until it is finished, with Netanyahu there or not. 

 

Whatever happens the 2 state solution remains elusive and if it happens which I hope it does, it will not be for a long time yet and only after the current phase of the hostilities are over.

 

The two-state solution is presented publicly by the world's diplomats and politicians as a silver bullet to end a conflict which has raged - one way or another - for decades.

But, despite taking part in this dance, most privately know it is dead, or is at best on life support.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-leaders-love-to-talk-of-a-two-state-solution-but-middle-east-silver-bullet-feels-further-away-than-ever-13051510

 

I also agree with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas who says there can be “no security and stability in the region” without a Palestinian state.

 

Dismantling Hamas and returning hostages are still the goals however and as the new EU Parliament resolution released just a couple of days ago stated:

 

In a resolution that showed significant support for Israel, the European Parliament calls for a permanent ceasefire after all hostages are “immediately and unconditionally released” and “the terrorist organization Hamas is dismantled.”

The resolution was adopted by 312 votes in favor, 131 against and 72 abstentions.

At the same time, the MEPs denounce “the disproportionate Israeli military response, which has caused a civilian death toll on an unprecedented scale.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/european-parliament-backs-ceasefire-resolution-contingent-on-hostages-release-hamass-ouster/

 

I am with the above resolution at the moment, everything else at this stage to me is noise. The resolution seems fair and is also hard hitting for Israel with not just the above conditions, those are for the ceasefire, here is a little more detail, that includes demands for 2 state solution etc.

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240112IPR16776/israel-hamas-war-meps-call-for-a-permanent-ceasefire-under-two-conditions

At the conclusion of this conflict, whenever that is, Netayahu should step down  before being soundly defeated.  Instead of being hammered with accusations of a disastrous security lapse on his watch he can claim how he destroyed Hamas.  He can also announce that his job is over and will now leave it to someone else to lead Israel forward.  I can hear the snickers now.  Never happen.  Comments welcome.

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7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Israel’s far-right prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, announced on Thursday that he told the White House he will not accept a Palestinian state after the war, nor cede security control of any territory west of the Jordan River.

 

The US, Israel’s staunchest and most important ally, has repeatedly attempted to discuss “day-after” scenarios with Israel and potential paths toward a two-state solution that include both a future Palestinian state and considerations for Israel’s security, only to be rebuffed.

 

The first challenge is moving Israel past Netanyahu’s toxic reign.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/biden-israel-netanyahu-war

 

 

@ozimoron

 

Labeling Netanyahu as 'far-right' says more about the author than about Netanyahu's actual positions.

 

Not too impressed with posters routinely posting links to opinion columns, yet having nothing significant of their own as comment or contribution.

 

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3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You forgot the part how, after his resignation, instead of battling the charges against him in court, he pleads guilty to corruption charges and meekly serves out his time in prison.

The court case is still going, since early December two court cases a week have been heard. Including potential appeals if found guilty, its unlikely to end before 2028-2029

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4 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Palestinian support for a two-state solution has dropped dramatically and Hamas itself calls for the complete destruction of Israel.  In other words, a one state solution, Palestine.  I am not agreeing with Netanyahu, but agreeing with Bkk Brian that Hamas is the problem and not the solution.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-is-a-two-state-solution-and-do-israelis-and-palestinians-want-one

 

 

 

Accepting Hamas is a problem does not imply discussions of what's next, what's to follow are to be avoided until such a time Hamas is defeated. This doesn't even have much to do with a two-state solution discussion, which is a broader issue. Currently, Netanyahu's refusal of setting clear goals for 'the day after' is making things more complicated for Israel and the IDF.

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29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The court case is still going, since early December two court cases a week have been heard. Including potential appeals if found guilty, its unlikely to end before 2028-2029

So you think the coda  I appended to Hawaiian's fairy tale was not realistic?

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There will be official read outs of this published later or over the weekend so details should be forthcoming

 

After phone call, Biden says two-state solution not impossible while Netanyahu in office

WASHINGTON — US President Joe Biden says the creation of an independent state for Palestinians is not impossible while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is still in office, and that the two leaders discussed the issue during their phone call earlier today.

Speaking to reporters after a meeting with US mayors, Biden is asked directly whether a two-state solution is impossible with Netanyahu still in office.

“No it’s not,” the president replies.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/after-phone-call-biden-says-two-state-solution-not-impossible-while-netanyahu-in-office/

 

 

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2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So you think the coda  I appended to Hawaiian's fairy tale was not realistic?

I added some information to your post, I can add more, what you want to make of it is up to you........lol

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34 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@ozimoron

 

Labeling Netanyahu as 'far-right' says more about the author than about Netanyahu's actual positions.

 

Not too impressed with posters routinely posting links to opinion columns, yet having nothing significant of their own as comment or contribution.

 

You don't think just by itself, his push to defang the Supreme Court is enough to qualify him as an extreme rightist? And given the composition of the current government, does it even matter whether that term corresponds to what Netanyahu may believe?

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Just now, Bkk Brian said:

I added some information to your post, I can add more, what you want to make of it is up to you........lol

Maybe you should bring your services to bear on other fairy tales. That, in fact, the Prince and the Princess didn't live happily ever after. It turns out he was gay and she had a drinking problem.

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35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

One reason that he does not want to let go of power is that the pace of the court proceedings would be significantly increased, and of course, less clout over judges, judiciary, witnesses - or control of media.

Do you think he is guilty?

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4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe you should bring your services to bear on other fairy tales. That, in fact, the Prince and the Princess didn't live happily ever after. It turns out he was gay and she had a drinking problem.

Off topic inflammatory trolling brings nothing to the topic...................................

 

 

Edited by Bkk Brian
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35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Accepting Hamas is a problem does not imply discussions of what's next, what's to follow are to be avoided until such a time Hamas is defeated. This doesn't even have much to do with a two-state solution discussion, which is a broader issue. Currently, Netanyahu's refusal of setting clear goals for 'the day after' is making things more complicated for Israel and the IDF.

I will not comment further because I am not that well versed on the internal politics of Israel.  And neither is the rest of the world.  Many are easily influenced by what they see and read in the media.

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Another quick update from Sky News

 

Biden: Netanyahu not opposed to two-state solution
We are receiving more information following Joe Biden's call with Benjamin Netanyahu.

Asked if a two-state solution was "impossible" while Mr Netanyahu was in office, the US leader said: "No, it's not."

He said Mr Netanyahu was not opposed to all two-state solutions, and there were a number of types possible.

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Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Off topic trolling brings nothing to the topic...................................

 

 

Missing the point I was making is useless. I guess I have to spell it out for you. Hawaiian's scenario was obviously a contrary to common sense  fantasy. I treated it with all the seriousness it deserved. Which quantity is none.

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