Morch Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, Hawaiian said: Maybe he doesn't know that Americans overwhelming support Israel over Hamas by 80%. In older Americans it rises to over 90%. Much ado over nothing. He's a Trump supporter, often deriding Biden about this or that. But Trump is also a vocal (if maybe less reliable) supporter of Israel (and no friend to the Palestinians) - hence the 'confusing' bit as far as @thaibeachlovers goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 6 hours ago, Hawaiian said: Maybe he doesn't know that Americans overwhelming support Israel over Hamas by 80%. In older Americans it rises to over 90%. Much ado over nothing. It isn't a team sport. Many who support Israel don't do so unconditionally. Most Americans want a 2 state solution. Likewise, support for Palestinians doesn't translate to opposition to Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, ozimoron said: It isn't a team sport. Many who support Israel don't do so unconditionally. Most Americans want a 2 state solution. Likewise, support for Palestinians doesn't translate to opposition to Israel. @ozimoron As for the latter, I think you're wrong. On this forum, it certainly does translate that way. Your posts, for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hanaguma Posted January 23 Popular Post Share Posted January 23 There WAS a 2 state solution on the table in the past. It was rejected by the Palestinians. Bill Clinton said that he "killed himself" getting them a great deal, which was turned down. Now, the rest of the Arab/Muslim world (with the exception of Iran) are just getting tired of the whole situation. They want it to go away. But they also don't want any Palestinians within their countries. It's a conundrum. There is nobody for Israel to negotiate WITH. Gaza is gone- 15 plus years of terrorist indoctrination and propaganda have poisoned too many minds there. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, Neeranam said: I've been doing extensive research on the history between Palestinians and Israelis in the past 3 months. I recognize the complex challenges in achieving lasting peace. My post shows a certain perspective and is, admittedly, one-sided. In engaging in discussions on forums such as this, where diverse opinions are expressed, I simply responded to a particular poster who solely attributed the failure of peace talks to the Palestinians. I concede that both sides, obviously, have played roles in the difficulties encountered during the peace process. While my initial post emphasized reasons attributing blame to Israel, it is important to recognize that the Palestinians were also involved in actions that strained the negotiations. Yeah, so...source please. And your last line is kinda meaningless so long as you post one-sided bits lifted from the net. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: It's great when you are able to point out that it's not always the Palestinian's fault that the two state solution failed in the past. @thaibeachlovers It's great when you pretend to 'ignore' so many posters, and then make such comments. Claiming Israel is prefect is not a thing, and there were plenty of comments about Israel's share of the blame. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 35 minutes ago, Morch said: @thaibeachlovers It's great when you pretend to 'ignore' so many posters, and then make such comments. Claiming Israel is prefect is not a thing, and there were plenty of comments about Israel's share of the blame. Why do you respond to those who can't see your posts? Very strange behavior. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Why do you respond to those who can't see your posts? Very strange behavior. Insert facts into a public forum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said: Not really intricate and sad at all. Just politics meeting extremism. When one side prefers the other side to all be murdered, it is a difficult place to start negotiations. In their heart of hearts, most Palestinians prefer a one state solution- from the river to the sea, remember? In any case, it seems rather counterintuitive to offer yet another two state solution as the response to a reprehensible act of rape and terror. Seems rather like rewarding the behavior, don't you think? Which, when you do think about it, might have been the motivation for the October 7 attacks in the first place- to permanently derail any kind of 'peace process' that would end with the state of Israel stlil existing. Labeling an entire group based on the actions or views of a faction within it is an oversimplification. Not all Palestinians share the same perspective, and generalizing that "most Palestinians prefer a one state solution" is rather false, IMHO. There are Palestinians who support a two-state solution and want a peaceful resolution to the conflict. The idea that one side prefers the other side to be entirely "murdered" is a sweeping generalization that does not accurately represent the attitudes of all Palestinians or Israelis, which one are you saying wish this? People on both sides of the conflict have suffered, and there are many opinions and experiences within each community. Regarding the notion of offering a two-state solution in response to acts of terror, remember this was the actions of an extremist group. Punishing an entire community for the actions of a few is not a just or productive approach. Many individuals and groups within both the Israeli and Palestinian societies actively seek peace and coexistence, and their efforts should not be overshadowed by the reprehensible acts of a minority, such as Hamas or the far-right Israelis like Yigal Amir or Netanyahu. Saying the October 7 attacks derailed the peace process oversimplifies the complex factors contributing to the ongoing fighting. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bkk Brian Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Labeling an entire group based on the actions or views of a faction within it is an oversimplification. Not all Palestinians share the same perspective, and generalizing that "most Palestinians prefer a one state solution" is rather false, IMHO. There are Palestinians who support a two-state solution and want a peaceful resolution to the conflict. The idea that one side prefers the other side to be entirely "murdered" is a sweeping generalization that does not accurately represent the attitudes of all Palestinians or Israelis, which one are you saying wish this? People on both sides of the conflict have suffered, and there are many opinions and experiences within each community. Regarding the notion of offering a two-state solution in response to acts of terror, remember this was the actions of an extremist group. Punishing an entire community for the actions of a few is not a just or productive approach. Many individuals and groups within both the Israeli and Palestinian societies actively seek peace and coexistence, and their efforts should not be overshadowed by the reprehensible acts of a minority, such as Hamas or the far-right Israelis like Yigal Amir or Netanyahu. Saying the October 7 attacks derailed the peace process oversimplifies the complex factors contributing to the ongoing fighting. Labeling an entire group based on the actions or views of a faction within it is an oversimplification. Not all Palestinians share the same perspective, and generalizing that "most Palestinians prefer a one state solution" is rather false, IMHO. No not false at all. Only five per cent of Palestinians support a two-state solution; three-quarters want Israel wiped off the map 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Labeling an entire group based on the actions or views of a faction within it is an oversimplification. Not all Palestinians share the same perspective, and generalizing that "most Palestinians prefer a one state solution" is rather false, IMHO. There are Palestinians who support a two-state solution and want a peaceful resolution to the conflict. The idea that one side prefers the other side to be entirely "murdered" is a sweeping generalization that does not accurately represent the attitudes of all Palestinians or Israelis, which one are you saying wish this? People on both sides of the conflict have suffered, and there are many opinions and experiences within each community. Regarding the notion of offering a two-state solution in response to acts of terror, remember this was the actions of an extremist group. Punishing an entire community for the actions of a few is not a just or productive approach. Many individuals and groups within both the Israeli and Palestinian societies actively seek peace and coexistence, and their efforts should not be overshadowed by the reprehensible acts of a minority, such as Hamas or the far-right Israelis like Yigal Amir or Netanyahu. Saying the October 7 attacks derailed the peace process oversimplifies the complex factors contributing to the ongoing fighting. Back to reality. Many of the Jews that Hamas murdered on October 7 were of the more peacenik kind of Israelis. Strong majorities on BOTH SIDES do not want a two state solution. So you propose forcing that on BOTH SIDES? Good luck with that. The truth is that a two state solution was already mostly dead before October 7, but after October 7 it is even more dead. Sure it might happen someday but if so, the wait will be much much longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, placeholder said: It's clear you don't understand how Google works. In order to index pages it uses bots called web-crawlers. The process isn't instantaneous, In fact, it can take months to index a page. What's more, not all entries even get indexed. Google has to judge by its own criteria whether a page is worth it or not. https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-long-before-google-indexes-my-new-page/464309/ If you want to do a fair test, find a page that google has already indexed, copy a stretch of text from it, and do a search using that text. I do understand how google works and I made the same point that you made, that putting some text into google search doesn't guarantee that you can find where the original text came from 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, Nick Carter icp said: I do understand how google works and I made the same point that you made, that putting some text into google search doesn't guarantee that you can find where the original text came from If you understood how google works, why did you search using my text which was barely posted and in the kind of venue that makes it less likely to be indexed? Why didn't you use text from an indexed page? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Back to reality. Many of the Jews that Hamas murdered on October 7 were of the more peacenik kind of Israelis. Strong majorities on BOTH SIDES do not want a two state solution. So you propose forcing that on BOTH SIDES? Good luck with that. The truth is that a two state solution was already mostly dead before October 7, but after October 7 it is even more dead. Sure it might happen someday but if so, the wait will be much much longer. The hostages will be dead if that's true. Meantime, the UN, the US and the EU all believe that a 2 state solution is the only way forward. If you think their opinions don't count, think about how Israel got there in 1948. Edited January 24 by ozimoron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Neeranam said: I've already told you - I replied to a one-sided comment putting the blame on Palestinians. Rather than say what parts of what are wrote are untrue, you choose to go on the personal attack, as usual. Could that be because all of what I wrote is true and you just don't like it as it doesn't fit with your 'Israel can do no wrong' narrative. It is inaccurate to attribute the breakdown of the Oslo Accords solely to the Palestinians. The peace process between Israel and the Palestinians had both parties contributing to the difficulties. While Hamas rejected the Oslo Accords and engaged in acts of violence against Israel, there were also instances of non-compliance and provocative actions from the Israeli side. Issues such as settlement expansion, disputes over territory, security concerns, and the status of Jerusalem have been longstanding points of contention. The peace process's failure is the result of many historical, political, and social factors, and placing blame solely on one party oversimplifies the intricate nature of the conflict. Actually, as you never left your signature sad face, I'll assume you agree with me. I don't feel compelled to address words which I do not believe you authored yourself. I'd like the source, please. I have no 'Israel can do no wrong' narrative - that's something you made up. You can spin things all you like, this topic is not about the Oslo Accords. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morch Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Neeranam said: Why do you respond to those who can't see your posts? Very strange behavior. He reads my posts. Been outed several times now when responding directly. Anyway, I may comment on any post I like, what's it to you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, ozimoron said: The hostages will be dead if that's true. Meantime, the UN, the US and the EU all believe that a 2 state solution is the only way forward. If you think their opinions don't count, think about how Israel got there in 1948. @ozimoron More your worthless pronouncements. What does it have to do with the hostages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 29 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Strong majorities on BOTH SIDES do not want a two state solution. So you propose forcing that on BOTH SIDES? And you know the reasons why they don't. I agree with you that it will take some time but it is possible and the best goal, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanaguma Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 41 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Labeling an entire group based on the actions or views of a faction within it is an oversimplification. Not all Palestinians share the same perspective, and generalizing that "most Palestinians prefer a one state solution" is rather false, IMHO. There are Palestinians who support a two-state solution and want a peaceful resolution to the conflict. The idea that one side prefers the other side to be entirely "murdered" is a sweeping generalization that does not accurately represent the attitudes of all Palestinians or Israelis, which one are you saying wish this? People on both sides of the conflict have suffered, and there are many opinions and experiences within each community. Regarding the notion of offering a two-state solution in response to acts of terror, remember this was the actions of an extremist group. Punishing an entire community for the actions of a few is not a just or productive approach. Many individuals and groups within both the Israeli and Palestinian societies actively seek peace and coexistence, and their efforts should not be overshadowed by the reprehensible acts of a minority, such as Hamas or the far-right Israelis like Yigal Amir or Netanyahu. Saying the October 7 attacks derailed the peace process oversimplifies the complex factors contributing to the ongoing fighting. Word salad, complete with moral equivalence and whataboutism. The group who perpetrated the terror attacks on October 7 were NOT a small, extreme group. They were the governing body controlling Gaza, and had the full throated support of the Gaza populace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Neeranam said: And you know the reasons why they don't. I agree with you that it will take some time but it is possible and the best goal, IMO. A British person trying to tell the Middle Easterners what to do and how to divide up the land , you have an historically atrocious record of dividing up other peoples land and you should keep out of it this time around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: A British person trying to tell the Middle Easterners what to do and how to divide up the land , you have an historically atrocious record of dividing up other peoples land and you should keep out of it this time around Right. Neeranam should be ashamed of himself for his historically atrocious record of dividing up other people's land. He must be a centenarian, at least. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: :) I was referring to British people, rather than him personally. But, you knew that didn't you and you are just being argumentative The point is you are blaming him for the sorry history of the British Government. Has Neeranam ever been in a position to countermand British policy? There's a good reason why the mods frown on making someone's nationality, a thing they can't help, an issue. If you're an American and froma country which recently inflicted a major disaster on the Mideast, shouldn't that disqualify you from this discussion as well? Edited January 24 by placeholder 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: The point is you are blaming him for the sorry history of the British Government. Has Neeranam ever been in a position to countermand British policy? There's a good reason why the mods frown on making someone's nationality, a thing they can't help, an issue. If you're an American and froma country which recently inflicted a major disaster on the Mideast, shouldn't that disqualify you from this discussion as well? IMO, British people should refrain from trying to divide up the Middle East , as they didn't do a very good job last time they did that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: IMO, British people should refrain from trying to divide up the Middle East , as they didn't do a very good job last time they did that And your point is ridiculous in that you are assigning Neeranam responsibility for events that happened long ago most likely before he was even born. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, placeholder said: And your point is ridiculous in that you are assigning Neeranam responsibility for events that happened long ago most likely before he was even born. Strange if he is replying to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, placeholder said: And your point is ridiculous in that you are assigning Neeranam responsibility for events that happened long ago most likely before he was even born. You don't seem to be able to understand what I write . What can I do ? Keep saying the same thing over and over again in the hope that you will eventually understand what I said ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: You don't seem to be able to understand what I write . What can I do ? Keep saying the same thing over and over again in the hope that you will eventually understand what I said ? All you've done in various ways is to reiterate that because Neeranam is British he shouldn't be raising some points because somehow that meanshe bears some responsibility or has incurred some guilt for the present state of the Mideast. You've got nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post metisdead Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 A post with unattributed information and the subsequent replies contravening The War in Israel forum header have been removed: Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War. Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source. All video content must be from a credible media source, and in English. Foreign languages, even with subtitles, are not permitted. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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