Giving up

[4MyEgo]

On 2/2/2024 at 1:34 PM, impulse said:

Not sure someone would want to tie up 80% of their assets in buying a home, especially given that he hasn't lived in Aus for many years.  He may want to spend a year or 3 getting the lay of the land before he ties himself so firmly to one location.  There's also a reasonable chance that he may decide he's better off back in Thailand, just not in the same situation. 

 

 

For what it's worth, I think he would be better off buying n an area where his grandkids are, if it's within his buying power range vs renting (dead money) that said, he would have to pay stamp duty and legal fees on the purchase, plus ongoing strata levies paid quarterly or annually (up to him), water and council rates, but then he would have secure tenure, i.e. rent is not going to be put up or the owner kicking him out for breaching the lease agreement or owner wants to move back in, etc etc.

 

He would however be best to keep it long term so that it appreciates in value, and as it's his principal place of residence, he won't pay any capital gains tax when he sells it, just has to pay the usual agents commission and legal fees, and if he passes away in the meantime, can will it to his wife or his kids or his grandkids, all the while, while receiving the Age Pension, albeit he will lose a little f he goes back to Thailand.

 

Going back to Oz to get the Age Pension is not feasible for most due to the high rents, i.e. unless they want to do 2 years of renting a room, a caravan etc, which IMO would be a miserable existence.

 

Edit: The other thing he has to consider is, if he gets any money from his Super as an income stream, deeming rates will be applied to his Age Pension by the government which is about 2%-2.5%, then they deduce 50% per $ of the Age Pension that he earns from Super.

 

They have you by the short and curly's at just about every angle.

 

 

Edited February 11 by 4MyEgo

[gearbox]

On 1/20/2024 at 4:31 PM, Celsius said:

 

Are you sure this is a good idea?

 

In Canada, condo fees double (or triple) every 10 years. 

 

Here is a breakdown of all the feel I googled on a 400k condo. Interest rates won't stay high forever.

 

Strata $2650 per quarter including $1029 into reserve fund.
Council $1592 per annum
Water $1160 per annum

 

If Perth is anything like a major Canadian city, living downtown would negate any need for a car. I assume public transport is very good over there,

 

In Australia most of the apartments are not condo types, no swimming pools, gyms, security guards, etc, the strata amounts are way lower than your numbers.

Also our age pension is means tested and the own residence is exempt, so having 500k and more as means tested assets may reduce his pension.

[georgegeorgia]

9 minutes ago, gearbox said:

In Australia most of the apartments are not condo types, no swimming pools, gyms, security guards, etc, the strata amounts are way lower than your numbers.

Also our age pension is means tested and the own residence is exempt, so having 500k and more as means tested assets may reduce his pension.

Not always !

In Sydney city I pay ...wait for it...... ...$2850 per quarter !!!

 

Council Rates - $308 per quarter 

Edited February 11 by georgegeorgia

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Not always !

In Sydney city I pay ...wait for it...... ...$2850 per quarter !!!

 

Council Rates - $308 per quarter 

 

You must have has a special levy agreed upon to be incorporated into your strata levies because there is no way anyone in there right mind would pay that kind of strata levies, and if that is the case, it is being raised for future works on the development because the sinking fund is too low to pay for such works.

 

If levies are high on unit buildings in Sydney, that tends to mean that the building was either built by a shabby builder who has skipped town, I won't mention the usual nationality in fear of being called a racist, is an old building, or has to much upkeep on it that is required and has been let go because owners didn't want to raise their strata levies, other things to consider are passenger lifts usually found in medium to high rise developments that require changing after around 25 years, not to mention the constant servicing, swimming pools, tennis courts, saunas, spa's, cleaners, gardeners and security guards on site.

 

The higher the strata levies, the lower the value of the unit. Would love to know the area you live in, but then again I cant keep up with you, wasn't it Mount Druitt ?

 

 

Edited February 11 by 4MyEgo

[georgegeorgia]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

You must have has a special levy agreed upon to be incorporated into your strata levies because there is no way anyone in there right mind would pay that kind of strata levies, and if that is the case, it is being raised for future works on the development because the sinking fund is too low to pay for such works.

 

If levies are high on unit buildings in Sydney, that tends to mean that the building was either built by a shabby builder who has skipped town, I won't mention the usual nationality in fear of being called a racist, is an old building, or has to much upkeep on it that is required and has been let go because owners didn't want to raise their strata levies, other things to consider are passenger lifts usually found in medium to high rise developments that require changing after around 25 years, not to mention the constant servicing, swimming pools, tennis courts, saunas, spa's, cleaners, gardeners and security guards on site.

 

The higher the strata levies, the lower the value of the unit. Would love to know the area you live in, but then again I cant keep up with you, wasn't it Mount Druitt ?

 

 

Yes we have a special levy 

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Yes we have a special levy 

 

 I thought so, suffice to say that is not your average strata levy per quarter.

 

Do you remember what the strata rates were before the special levy, e.g. $1,500-$1,750 per quarter, noting that you state that you live in the City of Sydney.

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/11/2024 at 7:46 AM, 4MyEgo said:

that said, he would have to pay stamp duty and legal fees on the purchase, plus ongoing strata levies paid quarterly or annually (up to him), water and council rates,

Then, he would have to pay agents fees upon the sale, and there's no guarantee he could sell it for more than he paid for it, and in a timely fashion, not to mention the capital tied up in the property is not earning.  

 

If all of the above is greater than paying two years rent, then renting would not be "dead money." 

 

I know a guy that saw out the two years in a mobile home, traveling around Australia, some of it with the Thai missus.  He bought his accommodation and transport all in one.  It may not be for everyone, but he said he enjoyed it and got a good price on the vehicle when he sold it.   

[GregBow]

On 2/12/2024 at 8:47 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Then, he would have to pay agents fees upon the sale, and there's no guarantee he could sell it for more than he paid for it, and in a timely fashion, not to mention the capital tied up in the property is not earning.  

 

If all of the above is greater than paying two years rent, then renting would not be "dead money." 

 

I know a guy that saw out the two years in a mobile home, traveling around Australia, some of it with the Thai missus.  He bought his accommodation and transport all in one.  It may not be for everyone, but he said he enjoyed it and got a good price on the vehicle when he sold it.   

Thanks all for the inputs guys.

Some theoretical and as usual some a bit sniping without knowledge of the australian situation, but also some from people who "been there, done that".

I appreciate and intake all.

Next week I have a face to face interview with services australia and then will know more of what restrictions there are.

I will buy a nice comfortable unit over the next weeks and yes strata fees in the high value areas would eat the pension but rent as quoted is not really feasible.

Still kicking - very supportive and helpful.

As I said to my old team in Vietnam, just old not dead yet.

Will update as I get the real inputs.

Greg

[4MyEgo]

On 1/20/2024 at 6:20 PM, GregBow said:

I am told I must stay in Aust no break for 2 years but can get the pension straight away.

 

Just remember to say, that you are back to stay, and if you buy a unit, that should add weight to your application.

 

See copy and pasted on the 2 years, at the very bottom.

 

 

On 1/20/2024 at 6:20 PM, GregBow said:

and unfortuneately put all into land via my Thai wife to save for retirement.

 

If you have separated from your wife, they should accept a Statutory Declaration as I have been told, otherwise divorcing, if you are legally married in Australia will cost you $1,000 upwards, so the Stat Dec would be the cheaper alternative, suffice to say, if you were married in Australia and are now separated, you might want to consider divorcing because she could go you half the unit IMO, perhaps seek legal advice on that.

 

My advice would be not to mention that your wife, if still married or not, has land, as they could put that down as an asset. You see, if you are married, you will get the married pension, but at the single rate, i.e. a few hundred bucks less than the single rate, so if your separated, go the single age pension route, and of course, the less you tell them the better the outcome, they are not your friend and will reduce the age pension where they can, and even decline you if they think you will go back after the 2 years.

 

If you get through all of those hurdles, then after 2 years, you can go back and have the age pension made portable.

 

Good luck.

 

Since 20 September 2000, a former resident who returns to Australia and is granted Age or DSP, or who transfers to Age under SS(Admin)Act section 12, cannot take that pension outside Australia if they leave within 2 years of having resumed residence in Australia. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from travelling to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

The 2-year period includes, as separate full days, the day on which the recipient returns to Australia to resume Australian residence and the day on which they leave again.

There is no discretionary power to allow portability of Age or DSP during the 2-year period (note, some exceptions to the 2-year rule apply - see below).

Payment may be suspended for short overseas absences during the 2-year period and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) will not impact on the end date of the 2-year period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 2-year period).

 

Link below:

https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/7/1/4?fbclid=IwAR0BOQA8UzTTsKwSi6xLfFppN7jlKTlm9zIROcy31N8kUU2KCu5cvuqwOOs

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, GregBow said:

I will buy a nice comfortable unit over the next weeks and yes strata fees in the high value areas would eat the pension but rent as quoted is not really feasible.

Did you consider the capital you are going to put into buying a property, the earnings of said capital, would subsidize the rent, and as a tenant, you have no other fees, taxes, commissions, legals, and maintenance to pay? 

[georgegeorgia]

On 2/18/2024 at 3:19 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Did you consider the capital you are going to put into buying a property, the earnings of said capital, would subsidize the rent, and as a tenant, you have no other fees, taxes, commissions, legals, and maintenance to pay? 

Strata fees , council rates , 

 

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Strata fees , council rates , 

 

The owner pays these fees, not the tenant.  of course, they are reflected in the rent price.  

 

Basically, what I am getting at is this, say you have $500,000AUD to buy a unit in Australia.  To buy the unit you are also up for stamp duty, legals, strata, council rates, maintenance etc, and are also exposed to the property market. 

 

Then, when selling, you are up for agent's commission. 

 

If you put that $500,000AUD in a bank account paying say 5% per month in interest, that's $500,000 x 5% = $25,000 per annum, which is $480 per week.  Rent a unit for around this price, no other taxes or fees to pay, and you may get rent assistance also. 

 

Stamp duty on purchase and agent's commission on sale is going to be thousands and thousands of dollars, so even if you can sell the unit 2 years later at a higher price, the profit is gone with just these two fees alone.  

[georgegeorgia]

7 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The owner pays these fees, not the tenant.  of course, they are reflected in the rent price.  

 

Basically, what I am getting at is this, say you have $500,000AUD to buy a unit in Australia.  To buy the unit you are also up for stamp duty, legals, strata, council rates, maintenance etc, and are also exposed to the property market. 

 

Then, when selling, you are up for agent's commission. 

 

If you put that $500,000AUD in a bank account paying say 5% per month in interest, that's $500,000 x 5% = $25,000 per annum, which is $480 per week.  Rent a unit for around this price, no other taxes or fees to pay, and you may get rent assistance also. 

 

Stamp duty on purchase and agent's commission on sale is going to be thousands and thousands of dollars, so even if you can sell the unit 2 years later at a higher price, the profit is gone with just these two fees alone.  

Absolutely I agree

And who said it will appreciate in value ?

My apartment in Sydney has gone down in value because of  sudden special levy to build more modern lifts and fire alarms $2850 per quarter for next 3 years !

Plus $308per quarter to city of Sydney council 

 

[still kicking]

On 2/11/2024 at 3:46 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

For what it's worth, I think he would be better off buying n an area where his grandkids are, if it's within his buying power range vs renting (dead money) that said, he would have to pay stamp duty and legal fees on the purchase, plus ongoing strata levies paid quarterly or annually (up to him), water and council rates, but then he would have secure tenure, i.e. rent is not going to be put up or the owner kicking him out for breaching the lease agreement or owner wants to move back in, etc etc.

 

He would however be best to keep it long term so that it appreciates in value, and as it's his principal place of residence, he won't pay any capital gains tax when he sells it, just has to pay the usual agents commission and legal fees, and if he passes away in the meantime, can will it to his wife or his kids or his grandkids, all the while, while receiving the Age Pension, albeit he will lose a little f he goes back to Thailand.

 

Going back to Oz to get the Age Pension is not feasible for most due to the high rents, i.e. unless they want to do 2 years of renting a room, a caravan etc, which IMO would be a miserable existence.

 

Edit: The other thing he has to consider is, if he gets any money from his Super as an income stream, deeming rates will be applied to his Age Pension by the government which is about 2%-2.5%, then they deduce 50% per $ of the Age Pension that he earns from Super.

 

They have you by the short and curly's at just about every angle.

 

 

High rent? It all depends on where you live, Ilive in the capital of WA I have a 2-bedroom unit and pay 240 AUD per week since about 7 years never had an increase. 

[still kicking]

What's so funny?

$480.00 from your rent balance has been allocated to paid rent for Unit 

Rent paid from 26/02/2024 to 10/03/2024 Your rent payment receipt is attached. Note: This is an automatically generated email. If you would like to discuss this with your property manager, please contact them Monday-Friday within business hours.

Kind regards

[still kicking]

No need to post anymore since some members don't get it.

[Will27]

11 hours ago, still kicking said:

High rent? It all depends on where you live, Ilive in the capital of WA I have a 2-bedroom unit and pay 240 AUD per week since about 7 years never had an increase. 

Still kicking, which is it?

Last month you posted this.

 

On 2/1/2024 at 10:59 PM, still kicking said:

Your old timer has this

 

 

On 2/1/2024 at 11:04 PM, still kicking said:

And this 

 

 

Edited February 21 by Will27

[still kicking]

1 minute ago, Will27 said:

Still kicking, which is it?

Last month you posted this.

 

 

 

Yes, but they are in my wife's name to avoid cutting my OAP.

[Nemises]

11 hours ago, still kicking said:

High rent? It all depends on where you live, Ilive in the capital of WA I have a 2-bedroom unit and pay 240 AUD per week since about 7 years never had an increase. 

For $240 pw you must live in a housing commission apartment. Here’s the going rate ($630 pw) for everyone else in Perth:

 

 

 

 

[Will27]

37 minutes ago, still kicking said:

Yes, but they are in my wife's name to avoid cutting my OAP.

You've previously said you're on the single OAP rate of about $1200 including benefits PF.

But you say you're married so why aren't you on the married rate?

 

If your wife has 2 properties, have they been included in the assets test?

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, still kicking said:

What's so funny?

$480.00 from your rent balance has been allocated to paid rent for Unit 

Rent paid from 26/02/2024 to 10/03/2024 Your rent payment receipt is attached. Note: This is an automatically generated email. If you would like to discuss this with your property manager, please contact them Monday-Friday within business hours.

Kind regards

 

So you have money that shows the balance is over in your rental account which your agent has advised will be paid forward as rent balance from the period 26/02/2024 to 10/03/2024, however it doesn't show anywhere that you are paying what you claim, i.e. $240 per week, which without proof of rental receipt means SFA to all of us.

[Old Croc]

I'm from Perth, retired in Issan on a farm I bought, but obviously in the wife's name. Haven't been booted out yet, but it would hurt her more than me as I have a couple of permanent income streams which fund daily living here. She would struggle without that coming in. I could live comfortably elsewhere in Thailand in a rental with a hired maid/carer if it ever came to that.    

I sold my house in Australia as I do not plan to ever return there. I am Centrelink independent; my income would probably preclude qualifying for any OAP. Certainly not worth travelling there to apply.

I haven't checked rental prices in the Perth for years, but at your age, would advise to rent rather than buy. Your cash reserves can be better utilized, as a poster above suggested. 

I presume your kids don't live in the central city, so the Murray St rental mentioned above is probably unrealistic as a guide. Perth is reputably the longest city in the world so you may end up living a long way from the city itself and have little reason to go there.  (cricket?)

[GregBow]

Thanks all again.

Been a busy week trying to get copies of documents long forgone.

Finally submission accepted.

Will take 4 weeks to review and up to 3 months after that to process and initiate payments.

I did reget a medicare card.

For Single pension 500k reduces it a lot as would 25k interest.

Pension totals circa 1000 per fortnight and decent rent 400+ per week.

Still looking at choices and will update as progess.

Thanks again and have a good weekend.

Greg

Edited February 23 by GregBow

[Celsius]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:30 PM, Will27 said:

You've previously said you're on the single OAP rate of about $1200 including benefits PF.

But you say you're married so why aren't you on the married rate?

 

If your wife has 2 properties, have they been included in the assets test?

 

yes. a lot of things don't pass the smell test in this thread.

[georgegeorgia]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:11 PM, Old Croc said:

I'm from Perth, retired in Issan on a farm I bought, but obviously in the wife's name. Haven't been booted out yet, but it would hurt her more than me as I have a couple of permanent income streams which fund daily living here. She would struggle without that coming in. I could live comfortably elsewhere in Thailand in a rental with a hired maid/carer if it ever came to that.    

I sold my house in Australia as I do not plan to ever return there. I am Centrelink independent; my income would probably preclude qualifying for any OAP. Certainly not worth travelling there to apply.

I haven't checked rental prices in the Perth for years, but at your age, would advise to rent rather than buy. Your cash reserves can be better utilized, as a poster above suggested. 

I presume your kids don't live in the central city, so the Murray St rental mentioned above is probably unrealistic as a guide. Perth is reputably the longest city in the world so you may end up living a long way from the city itself and have little reason to go there.  (cricket?)

So if you hadn't sold your house in Australia you probably could of claimed the OAP 

Obviously you would have to tell Centrelink it wasn't rented out , probably better to sell it as you did

[georgegeorgia]

On 2/24/2024 at 2:38 AM, Celsius said:

 

yes. a lot of things don't pass the smell test in this thread.

Still kicking tells a lot of lies unfortunately

Not sure why ,he has 2 investment property's he said but rents out a small flat in the outskirts of Perth 

 

And gets the OAP even though his wife works and his rental income .

I guess if the investment properties were in her name and she is not married to him and living at a different address it could be done

[Old Croc]

On 2/25/2024 at 5:03 AM, georgegeorgia said:

So if you hadn't sold your house in Australia you probably could of claimed the OAP 

Obviously you would have to tell Centrelink it wasn't rented out , probably better to sell it as you did

As stated, I don't have the need to tell Centrelink anything.

I left Australia at age 62, before qualifying for the OAP. I had/still have a comfortable superannuation pension and other assets, which pretty much would have disqualified me from the govt pension at 65 (I used their calculators to check).

So, to answer your question, no, I couldn't have claimed the OAP a few years later. Selling the house for much more than double what I paid 8 years earlier and organizing a second pension stream with the cash certainly put that out of reach.  

With my intention to move permanently, and having previously endured the pitfalls of renting property, considering the age of the property and likely ongoing R&M, the sky-high property market at the time, selling my house was the only sensible option.

 

Anything else I can help you with?

[georgegeorgia]

38 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

As stated, I don't have the need to tell Centrelink anything.

I left Australia at age 62, before qualifying for the OAP. I had/still have a comfortable superannuation pension and other assets, which pretty much would have disqualified me from the govt pension at 65 (I used their calculators to check).

So, to answer your question, no, I couldn't have claimed the OAP a few years later. Selling the house for much more than double what I paid 8 years earlier and organizing a second pension stream with the cash certainly put that out of reach.  

With my intention to move permanently, and having previously endured the pitfalls of renting property, considering the age of the property and likely ongoing R&M, the sky-high property market at the time, selling my house was the only sensible option.

 

Anything else I can help you with?

More fool you 

Paid your taxes saved your money  and you get nothing !

😂

Edited February 26 by georgegeorgia

[Old Croc]

14 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

More fool you 

Paid your taxes saved your money  and you get nothing !

😂

I consider the fools to be those who have to live off the pittance handout from the government. 

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Selling the house for much more than double what I paid 8 years earlier and organizing a second pension stream with the cash certainly put that out of reach.  

With my intention to move permanently, and having previously endured the pitfalls of renting property, considering the age of the property and likely ongoing R&M, the sky-high property market at the time, selling my house was the only sensible option.

 

Not to mention you wouldn't have been able to claim any ongoing costs related to the property until you sold it, to offset against your very large Capital Gains Tax bill, if you went down that path.

 

You did your homework and it worked for you, most don't understand, holding on property in Australia when living overseas as a Non-Resident works against you, for starters, you pay 32.5 cents in the $ tax with no threshold, some say they can prove they are still residents and pay less tax, well ok, if that's the case, they will still have a heavy Capital Gains Tax bill to pay when they sell up.

 

 

 

Edited February 26 by 4MyEgo