New Thai Tax On Remittances??

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm travelling currently, supposedly on a recuperative holiday and am I un able give one on one advice at present, despite spendings hours on related discussions last night. To date, almost everyone has been able to use the guide to figure out their own situation. If after reading it again, post your specific question and I'll try to answer later in the day, if nobody else has been able to which o think is highly improbable.

Thanks Mike, and get well soon. I did read it carefully, and have come to the conclusion that what my Taxman told me is correct. 

[Lacessit]

I would suggest everyone takes a deep breath, and calm down.

 

Anyone who lives in Thailand for less than half the year can stop reading now.

 

The only action one MAY need to take is getting a Thai tax number prior to their next extension. Which may or may not be needed at Immigration.

 

No one needs to put in a tax return until March 2025.

 

The Thai authorities have yet to clarify what happens with countries that have double taxation agreements.

 

Having a Thai tax number does not necessarily mean a tax return has to be filed. I have an Australian TFN, and have not put in a return for the last two years.

 

The Thai authorities have already said transfers of savings accumulated prior to January 1, 2024, are exempted from tax.

 

That is my reading of the situation, feel free to disagree.

 

 

 

 

[giogio]

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

What you were told is correct, some transfers may be taxed, depending on various factors. Please read the document and come back with any questions

hi mike

 

i read almost religiously the "tax guide" you compiled

 

allow me to say:

-i wish you a full medical recovery (myself i have suddenly got the need of a knee surgery, which implies the transfer of 6k euros, on top of my usual yearly living costs)

-very grateful for your work for the community

-sorry that someone tailgated the thread and did not stop when he was made aware to stop.

 

now to my question:

if i pay a service in thailand directly from my european bank (either via fintech like WISE/XE or bank2bank), eg 1) i transfer the 6k required for my surgery directly from my eu bank to the thai hospital bank account. eg 2) to pay condo rent, i transfer directly from my eu bank to the thai landlord bank account.

 

the remittance would not arrive in thailand to my name nor to my bank account.

 

would these transfers be considered by thai inland revenue?

 

thank you

[giogio]

39 minutes ago, zombie nights said:

OP:

The current practice of the revenue dept is NOT to expect retirees to pay taxes or file any tax return. Nothing in the new regulations changes that so far as what we know.

If some retirees are persuaded by scare mongering here to file returns and pay taxes then so be it.

 

i advice you to read the thread and the attached link to a thai tax guide with an open mind (as opposed to a wishful mind)

[Mike Lister]

56 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would suggest everyone takes a deep breath, and calm down.

 

Anyone who lives in Thailand for less than half the year can stop reading now.

 

The only action one MAY need to take is getting a Thai tax number prior to their next extension. Which may or may not be needed at Immigration.

 

No one needs to put in a tax return until March 2025.

 

The Thai authorities have yet to clarify what happens with countries that have double taxation agreements.

 

Having a Thai tax number does not necessarily mean a tax return has to be filed. I have an Australian TFN, and have not put in a return for the last two years.

 

The Thai authorities have already said transfers of savings accumulated prior to January 1, 2024, are exempted from tax.

 

That is my reading of the situation, feel free to disagree.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, yes, except anyone who needs to file this year, should still do so, before end march.

[Robert Paulson]

Do any of you tax gods understand conversions? Because basically what we do here is forex.

 

eg what if I take 10,000 dollars and turn it into baht, and in the coming months the baht gets stronger and I make “income”. Is this not considered income? Or what is the deal. And of course the same question could be asked if I lost on the conversion for the tax year. 

[Mike Lister]

19 minutes ago, giogio said:

hi mike

 

i read almost religiously the "tax guide" you compiled

 

allow me to say:

-i wish you a full medical recovery (myself i have suddenly got the need of a knee surgery, which implies the transfer of 6k euros, on top of my usual yearly living costs)

-very grateful for your work for the community

-sorry that someone tailgated the thread and did not stop when he was made aware to stop.

 

now to my question:

if i pay a service in thailand directly from my european bank (either via fintech like WISE/XE or bank2bank), eg 1) i transfer the 6k required for my surgery directly from my eu bank to the thai hospital bank account. eg 2) to pay condo rent, i transfer directly from my eu bank to the thai landlord bank account.

 

the remittance would not arrive in thailand to my name nor to my bank account.

 

would these transfers be considered by thai inland revenue?

 

thank you

I'll reply later today

[Mike Lister]

An unhelpful and inaccurate post has been removed, if you don't know the answer with certainty, don't post guesses

 

[Happy happy]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I would suggest everyone takes a deep breath, and calm down.

 

Anyone who lives in Thailand for less than half the year can stop reading now.

 

The only action one MAY need to take is getting a Thai tax number prior to their next extension. Which may or may not be needed at Immigration.

 

No one needs to put in a tax return until March 2025.

 

The Thai authorities have yet to clarify what happens with countries that have double taxation agreements.

 

Having a Thai tax number does not necessarily mean a tax return has to be filed. I have an Australian TFN, and have not put in a return for the last two years.

 

The Thai authorities have already said transfers of savings accumulated prior to January 1, 2024, are exempted from tax.

 

That is my reading of the situation, feel free to disagree.

 

 

 

 

Yes the Thai authorities and no one else( including  any unofficial guide) are the only ones who can clarify.

[Mike Lister]

43 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Do any of you tax gods understand conversions? Because basically what we do here is forex.

 

eg what if I take 10,000 dollars and turn it into baht, and in the coming months the baht gets stronger and I make “income”. Is this not considered income? Or what is the deal. And of course the same question could be asked if I lost on the conversion for the tax year. 

The conversion is recorded at the point the funds are remitted and received here. No, the example you describe is not income 

[Mike Lister]

41 minutes ago, Happy happy said:

Yes the Thai authorities and no one else( including  any unofficial guide) are the only ones who can clarify.

Posters like to imagine that an entire new tax rule book will be released by the RD which will suddenly make everything more clear. May I remind everyone that thousands and thousands of foriegners in Thailand have been successfully filing taxes here for decades, using the present rules, especially those with overseas income. When that clarity comes from the RD, in whatever form it takes, don't expect a sudden revaluation or eureka moment.

[Will B Good]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Thanks, yes, except anyone who needs to file this year, should still do so, before end march.

But they haven't been in Thailand for 179 (?) days since the changes were announced this Jan.......so isn't June/July going to be the first deadline?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

But they haven't been in Thailand for 179 (?) days since the changes were announced this Jan.......so isn't June/July going to be the first deadline?

For this year, yes, but some/many people still need to file for 2023 which must be done by 31 Mar 

[foreverlomsak]

19 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Do you need to transfer 65k per month to keep your Retirement Extension?

 

65k x 12 = 780k. There is a 190k allowance, plus 60k = 250k. Then the first 150k is at 0% tax, and then 150 - 300k at 5%. So you are liable for 5% on 300k plus 10% on 80k. Total tax = 15k + 8k = 23k for the year.

Follow your logic, however the 5% is paid on 150k only (the difference between the 150k (exempt) and the upper limit of 300k, result tax would be 7.5k giving a year total of 15.5k

[Mike Lister]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

No, those transfers are inbound remittances which may or may not be income, which in turn may or may not be taxable.

Lots of people confused about this, an inbound fund transfers may represent income to you but it's not necessarily income in tax or RD terms.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Thanks, yes, except anyone who needs to file this year, should still do so, before end march.

Anyone with two brain cells would have transferred sufficient funds ( up until March at least ) prior to January 1, to ensure there was no reportable income.

If there is no income to report, why would they need to file?

 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Anyone with two brain cells would have transferred sufficient funds ( up until March at least ) prior to January 1, to ensure there was no reportable income.

If there is no income to report, why would they need to file?

 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

What about those on the income method who transfer 65k of their pension every month, there will be thousands of them.

 

Thanks btw

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

What about those on the income method who transfer 65k of their pension every month, there will be thousands of them.

 

Thanks btw

Those people presumably would have to file, and wait for the RD to decide if their pensions are taxable.

I am pleased I stuck with the 800K baht method, after briefly flirting with the income method years ago.

[Lacessit]

37 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

But they haven't been in Thailand for 179 (?) days since the changes were announced this Jan.......so isn't June/July going to be the first deadline?

Depends on whether the 180 days is retrospective.

So many question marks.

[KannikaP]

32 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Follow your logic, however the 5% is paid on 150k only (the difference between the 150k (exempt) and the upper limit of 300k, result tax would be 7.5k giving a year total of 15.5k

Plus 10% of 80k

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Those people presumably would have to file, and wait for the RD to decide if their pensions are taxable.

I am pleased I stuck with the 800K baht method, after briefly flirting with the income method years ago.

The new rule is effective 1 Jan so the 2023 tax year is not affcted

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

The new rule is effective 1 Jan so the 2023 tax year is not affcted

I am confused. Do you file your 2023 tax return at the end of March 2024, or 2023? That would make it the FY in 2022.

[fulhamster]

18 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

You talk as though you've.never filed a tax return. You have to declare what those funds are, you can say what you want. But if they don't believe you or decide to do a routine audit, you have to be able to prove what you said is true.

How could the Thai taxman get access to your bank details in your home country ?

I would quite happily declare that my funds are savings/inheritance but that would be it.

 

If HSBC gave my details to anyone sure they would be in breach of even basic banking regs.

 

[fulhamster]

So if my Bangkok Bank account (that I maintain with 800K for visa extension) has no incoming transactions for 2024 then I have nothing to declare ?

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am confused. Do you file your 2023 tax return at the end of March 2024, or 2023? That would make it the FY in 2022.

The 2023 tax year ended 31 Dec 2023, tax returns covering that year must be filed by 31 Mar 2024

[fulhamster]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The Thai authorities have yet to clarify what happens with countries that have double taxation agreements.

 

 

This the main item that we are waiting to be decided. Until then it's all supposition

 

[Everyman]

21 hours ago, giogio said:

Dear tax expats and experts

 

i live in thailand with “retirement visa”, here i have no wife, no business, no work, no money in thai bank that produces interest. I do nothing in thailand that produces money and i will stay single forever.

 

i only have my savings in europe (and in few years a little pension), so every month i transfer what s needed to pay bills overhere.

Per year my remittances to thailand are over the threshold of 120.000 baht

 

with this new thai tax in mind, does anyone can point me to to where i should be looking the answers to the following questions:

 

-will i need to apply for a thai TIN by december 2024?

-will i need to file a tax return by march 2025?

-will i pay taxes on this remittances?

-how much would i be expected to pay?

 

Thank you all for contributions

 

No

No

No

Nothing 

 

Wow that was easy. 

 

Unless the banks start withholding a portion of incoming transfers or immigration starts requiring tax documents for visa extensions, then the “new rules” do not matter, especially for people in your situation. And it will be a cold day in hell before either of those two scenarios happen. 

 

The revenue department probably has a few Thai “bad actors” in mind that they want to go after. Uncle Somchai isn’t coming for anyone’s beer Chang fund. I also doubt they will try to tax incoming funds for condo purchases. 

 

It’s all a big juicy nothing burger with extra cheese, but the panic has been great business for dodgy tax lawyers peddling their own bull<deleted> interpretation of the supposed changes, and who have strong financial incentive to keep the panic going. 

Edited January 21 by Everyman

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, fulhamster said:

So if my Bangkok Bank account (that I maintain with 800K for visa extension) has no incoming transactions for 2024 then I have nothing to declare ?

Correct. But any funds you transfer for living expenses etc WILL be assessable for tax next year.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, fulhamster said:

How could the Thai taxman get access to your bank details in your home country ?

I would quite happily declare that my funds are savings/inheritance but that would be it.

 

If HSBC gave my details to anyone sure they would be in breach of even basic banking regs.

 

You're going off at a tangent, CRS and all that, not for here. Suffice to say, you should read the long tax thread.

[fulhamster]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Correct. But any funds you transfer for living expenses etc WILL be assessable for tax next year.

Depending on which account receives it ?

We also have a joint account and a few in my wife's name