Hamas: Oct 7 was 'necessary, normal response' to 'Israeli conspiracies'

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It was relevant in the fact that Israel has the right to do what its pleases with its borders .

Pleas don't talk about integrity when you side with murderers, rapists , baby killers, hostages takers and war criminals and terrorists and mass murderers

I don't think @NextG was siding with the Zionists. From what I've read, he, like me, doesn't "side" with either Hamas or Zionists. He also doesn't place all the blame on only one side, like you do. 

[NextG]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It was relevant in the fact that Israel has the right to do what its pleases with its borders .

Pleas don't talk about integrity when you side with murderers, rapists , baby killers, hostages takers and war criminals and terrorists and mass murderers

I don’t need to take sides. That is the domain of a fool, destined to repeat his mistakes. I simply take the position of understanding why it is happening and will continue in one form or another. The fact that you feel the need to defend a terrorist state is something you might want to ask yourself. 
 

[Ben Zioner]

On 1/23/2024 at 1:50 PM, IAMHERE said:

For Hamas it may well be normal. That is what Israel is worried about, maybe.

 

The only thing Israel is worried about are its gutless western "allies".

[retarius]

I agree 110%....yes Hamas was authorise by Israel's occupation to attack and occupying force. The subsequent butchery by IDF what we already knew about the occupiers and oppressors.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

You are ignoring what is happening on the ground. Palestinians in the West Bank have been forcibly removed for decades now. Slowly but surely, they are being ousted.

 

The 20% of Arab Israelis you reference face discrimination, poverty and are confined to certain districts in Israel to ensure they cannot become the majority and win more seats in the Knesset. They are second class citizens and according to the law passed in 2018, they cannot call Israel their home. It is home to the Jewish people only.

 

So which is it? A two state solution, or just Israel?

 

I'm not ignoring anything. You and the other poster made claims that you cannot back, support or demonstrate. Now you waffle.

 

Spin it as hard as you can, the Palestinian people are still in place, and their number have significantly grown over the years.

 

As for your other bit of nonsense - I never claimed Israel is perfect. But it's a far cry from what you and the other poster alleged.

 

Stop making up stuff, and just maybe I'll bother addressing your points.

[retarius]

4 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

 

The only thing Israel is worried about are its gutless western "allies".

Israel should be shunned by decent people and ostracised. Go BDS.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

...and one more thing, Morch... These are FORUMS. According to Merriam-Webster, a forum is:
 

"a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly"

That, to me, means they are places where you are welcome to express your opinions. You don't have to agree with my opinion. That's okay. You don't even have to explain why you disagree and debate is okay, but you shouldn't try to silence me with derogatory remarks. That won't work. (Unless you're @RImmer )

 

You express your opinions, and I express how silly, ignorant and pathetic they are.

Despite your denials, this is not the first time you tried to push this nonsense, and things were explained, in detail on previous posts.

Memory problems? Lying? Who knows? Who cares?

[Morch]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

bombing kids isn't self defense.

 

@ozimoron

 

Israel does not intentionally bomb kids, though.

Hamas did all of what they've done with clear intent.

That difference.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

Outing myself? Here is what I actually said. It is against forum rules to select part of someones quote to make your disgusting accusation. I clearly said everything they did was abhorrent, and can not be allowed to continue:

 

 

 

You want to call Hamas 'freedom fighters', don't be surprised if people see it as an outing.

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You express your opinions, and I express how silly, ignorant and pathetic they are.

Despite your denials, this is not the first time you tried to push this nonsense, and things were explained, in detail on previous posts.

Memory problems? Lying? Who knows? Who cares?

I express the same opinions I've had for years, and certainly the ones I've expressed on previous forums. And yes, I remember you from them. 

What I'm expressing are not nonsense. They are my opinions, and they are shared by a large number of people. You disagree with them, so you classify them as "nonsense." They are not. You're previous explanations of your opinions have been biased and I didn't agree with them then, and still don't.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Again, in my first post I clearly stated that this group 'translates as freedom fighters' - resistance fighters. In their own opinion, they describe themselves thusly: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/hamas-know-group-deadliest-attack-israel-decades-rcna119628

 

 

As pointed, out the translation is inaccurate.

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You want to call Hamas 'freedom fighters', don't be surprised if people see it as an outing.

I see that characterization as a truism. It's just an unpleasant one to accept. 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I guess you missed the memo that said Israel and Egypt have been blockading Gaza since at least 2007.

 

I guess you missed the memo that this came about as a result of Hamas assuming control of the Gaza Strip, and it's breakup with the PA.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Gaza. and the West Bank are only portions of the former state of Palestine. Hamas, the Freedom Fighters and Terrorists. are fighting to recover the entire state, not just the two small portions they have been forced to live in. 

 

There was no 'former state of Palestine'.

You're making things up.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

No, they don't espouse a genocidal agenda. That's what the Zionists want to do with the Palestinians. Hamas only wants to regain control of the land that used to be theirs - Palestine. I've repeatedly said that before the 1920s, both Arabs/Muslims and Hebrews/Jews lived in peace in Palestine. It wasn't until after that when the Hebrews/Jews were given the land by the West as their "homeland," that they moved to take it completely over and call it "Israel." 

 

No, you are either lying or clueless. Hamas does not have a vision of Israelis remaining in place under Palestinian rule. Hamas demonstrated its intentions on 7/10. Hamas leaders announced there will be more of this, and no compromises. All of this was reviews on these topic numerous times.

 

You can repeatedly say a whole lot of things - it does not make them true or relevant.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Do you think that because you made the original quote, you have the right to misleadingly truncate it? Here it is once again in its entirety:

 

You think a country that is under blockade   by Israel and Egypt is "already free from Israel"?

 

There is no demand that borders will be open between countries.

The blockade is in place because of the actions and agenda of Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I disagree, but that's just my opinion. I don't have any "inside" information as to what else Hamas wants to do other than regain control of Palestine. They may think that requires the elimination of all Jews there, but not all Jews everywhere. That, again, IMO, is what the Zionists want regarding Arab Muslims in what is now called Israel. As I have said, I favor a one-state solution where BOTH Jews and Muslims inhabit Palestine, but I don't think that is ever going to happen. It's going to be one or the other, and right now, it looks like it will be the Jews. 

 

Doesn't have anything to do with 'inside information'. It's all out in the open.

 

As for your claims regarding Israel - 20% Arab citizens seem to counter your nonsense. Same goes for increasing demographic figures for Palestinians in general.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

 

For 17 years, Gaza endured a brutal siege encompassing land, air, and marine restrictions, resulting in staggering levels of unemployment, pervasive poverty, and a prevailing sense of hopelessness.

 

Israel wielded complete control, dictating who could enter or exit Gaza, denying medical treatment to the sick, and obstructing students from pursuing their studies without Israeli approval. Israel also held sway over vital resources like water, electricity, and communications.

 

Along the Gaza shores, fishermen faced peril as stray ventures beyond designated fishing zones led to gunfire or destruction of fishing boats.

 

The harsh conditions imposed on the region set the stage for an attempted jailbreak on October 7, revealing a context rife with grievances and motivations.

 

All this 'sieges stuff - it started when Hamas assumed power. Maybe something to do with it's actions and agenda? Because things weren't like that before.

 

The same 'siege' was upheld by Egypt. Don't see much Hamas attacks on Egypt, though.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

The area we are talking about was referred to as "Palestine" by even the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which set this whole catastrophe into motion. 

 

More standard issue nonsense. It was not a state.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

 

I condemn all genocides no matter who is the perpetrator or the victim.

 

This is precisely why the ongoing genocide in Gaza is/should be condemned.

 

I don’t follow your logic though, are you hinting that a genocide against the aborigines in Australia justifies one in Gaza?

 

There is no genocide.

[Brickleberry]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I guess you missed the memo that this came about as a result of Hamas assuming control of the Gaza Strip, and it's breakup with the PA.

 

Well that's only because Israel assassinated the peace maker leader of the Palestinian people, and so Hamas won the election - the first time it had ever participated in one.

 

If Israel (they claim he was a lone actor, I doubt this very much) had not assassinated the guy (I can't remember his name), they would not have to deal with Hamas, they would probably have to deal with the guy who wanted two states and to make peace. Both things that Bibi had no intention of doing, and he was the Prime Minister at the time.

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, NextG said:

There are always deaths. Snipers have even shot journalists, apart from boys throwing stones. Israel often acts in a disproportionate manner in order to ‘deter’ any resistance. Also a form of terrorism. 

 

And for all of these, Palestinian population figures routinely rose.

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, NextG said:

I don’t need to take sides. That is the domain of a fool, destined to repeat his mistakes. I simply take the position of understanding why it is happening and will continue in one form or another. The fact that you feel the need to defend a terrorist state is something you might want to ask yourself. 
 

 

Other than yourself, what countries label Israel a 'terrorist state'? Or was this your version of baiting?

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, retarius said:

Israel should be shunned by decent people and ostracised. Go BDS.

 

Funny how that doesn't happen.

Or how that BDS stuff doesn't really work out much.

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I guess you missed the memo that this came about as a result of Hamas assuming control of the Gaza Strip, and it's breakup with the PA.

Get a grip. I just pointed out that because his statement was so blatantly false, it must mean that he didn't know about the blockade. . To your way of thinking, apparently, if someone makes a true statement, that also means they must be ignorant. Had I mentioned the reasons for the blockade, would that have made his assertion less false? More false? And if I had some hidden agenda to bash Israel, why did I mention Egypt as well? 

You are losing it.

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I express the same opinions I've had for years, and certainly the ones I've expressed on previous forums. And yes, I remember you from them. 

What I'm expressing are not nonsense. They are my opinions, and they are shared by a large number of people. You disagree with them, so you classify them as "nonsense." They are not. You're previous explanations of your opinions have been biased and I didn't agree with them then, and still don't.

 

You do not know me form other forums. I was referring to previous topics on this forum.

 

That you express your opinions 'for years' doesn't make them any more correct or relevant. They are, however, nonsense opinions as they have no basis in  fact.

 

It is not even a question of 'bias', it's just you out of touch with reality.

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I see that characterization as a truism. It's just an unpleasant one to accept. 

 

You would.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Well that's only because Israel assassinated the peace maker leader of the Palestinian people, and so Hamas won the election - the first time it had ever participated in one.

 

If Israel (they claim he was a lone actor, I doubt this very much) had not assassinated the guy (I can't remember his name), they would not have to deal with Hamas, they would probably have to deal with the guy who wanted two states and to make peace. Both things that Bibi had no intention of doing, and he was the Prime Minister at the time.

 

Assassinated who, exactly? You can't remember whom? What are you on about?

 

Are you even aware of the background to Hamas's election victory? The widespread dissatisfaction with PA corruption? The Hamas playing down their agenda vs. Israel and highlighting social reforms etc?

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Get a grip. I just pointed out that because his statement was so blatantly false, it must mean that he didn't know about the blockade. . To your way of thinking, apparently, if someone makes a true statement, that also means they must be ignorant. Had I mentioned the reasons for the blockade, would that have made his assertion less false? More false? And if I had some hidden agenda to bash Israel, why did I mention Egypt as well? 

You are losing it.

 

Nah, you made a daft point, you're called out, and now you waffle.

Same old.

[Brickleberry]

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Assassinated who, exactly? You can't remember whom? What are you on about?

 

Are you even aware of the background to Hamas's election victory? The widespread dissatisfaction with PA corruption? The Hamas playing down their agenda vs. Israel and highlighting social reforms etc?

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/assassination-yitzhak-rabin-never-knew-his-people-shot-him-in-back

 

Yes, I am well aware. I'm not sure you are though. Hamas were up against the PLO & Fatah. Not the PA.