Social Media Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is currently deliberating a case brought forward by South Africa, accusing Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. The focus of the case is not on designating Hamas as a terrorist organization but on addressing the humanitarian crisis resulting from the conflict. The ICJ session, which began two weeks ago, could potentially lead to emergency measures compelling Israel to cease its military operations in Gaza. South Africa has requested nine provisional measures, including a halt to military activities by Israel, while the broader accusation of genocide is under consideration. It's important to note that a ruling against Israel in this context is politically significant but lacks enforceability by the court. The case stems from Israel's military offensive in response to an attack by Hamas on October 7, which resulted in substantial civilian casualties. According to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, over 25,000 Palestinians, predominantly women and children, have been killed, with tens of thousands more injured. The attack also involved taking hostages, further escalating tensions in the region. Israel vehemently rejects the genocide allegation, asserting its right to self-defense and claiming to target Hamas fighters rather than civilians. The country has urged the judges to dismiss South Africa's request, labeling the accusations as "grossly distorted" and baseless. The ICJ's ruling, expected to be delivered on Friday, will address two key questions. Firstly, whether South Africa has met the basic criteria to pursue its claim under the UN's 1948 Genocide Convention. Secondly, whether there is a plausible risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian people in Gaza if Israel's military actions persist. While the ICJ's rulings are legally binding in theory, they lack enforceability by the court. If the ruling favors South Africa's requests, it may increase political pressure on Israel to work towards a ceasefire and prompt international allies to intensify efforts behind the scenes for a resolution and humanitarian assistance in the region. 26.01.24 Source 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post retarius Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 Obviously guilty from my perspective, you can't murder 25000 innocent people like this, even in a search for revenge. I suspect however that the ICJ will find some technical reason why they don't have jurisdiction in the case, to avoid losing credibility with most of the world. But the whole Israeli operation seems to be designed to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians and to make the now cleared land available to Israelis. 2 3 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, retarius said: Obviously guilty from my perspective, you can't murder 25000 innocent people like this, even in a search for revenge. I suspect however that the ICJ will find some technical reason why they don't have jurisdiction in the case, to avoid losing credibility with most of the world. But the whole Israeli operation seems to be designed to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians and to make the now cleared land available to Israelis. Well whatever the provisional decision may be, it's estimated roughly 9000 of those killed were Hamas soldiers. So the figure of 25000 is somewhat inflated, no? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post retarius Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: Well whatever the provisional decision may be, it's estimated roughly 9000 of those killed were Hamas soldiers. So the figure of 25000 is somewhat inflated, no? No sorry, I know you sympathies with Israel and I respect that. 25000 is the latest estimate of Palestinians civilians killed. On top of that the Israeli authorities claim to have killed between 5000 and 9000 Hamas fighters. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, retarius said: No sorry, I know you sympathies with Israel and I respect that. 25000 is the latest estimate of Palestinians civilians killed. On top of that the Israeli authorities claim to have killed between 5000 and 9000 Hamas fighters. So, you're calling the Ministry of Health in Gaza, the agency under the Hamas govt, a liar? Shame on you! Gaza death toll surpasses 25,000 as Israel escalates assault The Palestinian death toll in Israel’s assault on Gaza has surpassed 25,000, according to the Ministry of Health in the territory. Ministry spokesperson Ashraf al-Qudra said on Sunday that 178 people had been confirmed killed in the previous 24 hours, with the death toll in more than three months of Israel’s war on Gaza reaching 25,105. The Palestinian death toll in Israel’s assault on Gaza has surpassed 25,000, according to the Ministry of Health in the territory. Ministry spokesperson Ashraf al-Qudra said on Sunday that 178 people had been confirmed killed in the previous 24 hours, with the death toll in more than three months of Israel’s war on Gaza reaching 25,105. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/21/gaza-death-toll-surpasses-25000-as-israel-escalates-assault 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 17 minutes ago, retarius said: No sorry, I know you sympathies with Israel and I respect that. 25000 is the latest estimate of Palestinians civilians killed. On top of that the Israeli authorities claim to have killed between 5000 and 9000 Hamas fighters. Of course, to be fair, this story about the total number of cazualties came via Al-Jazeera. And everyone knows that those Zionists are in the bag for Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post retarius Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, placeholder said: Of course, to be fair, this story about the total number of cazualties came via Al-Jazeera. And everyone knows that those Zionists are in the bag for Israel. Dear Placeholder....you are treading a well known path here for genocide deniers. First challenge the numbers, then challenge the source of the numbers. I respect your opinion but this is smearing. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 16 minutes ago, retarius said: Dear Placeholder....you are treading a well known path here for genocide deniers. First challenge the numbers, then challenge the source of the numbers. I respect your opinion but this is smearing. It's not me challenging the numbers. It's you. Do you believe that the Health Ministry, part of the government in Gaza, is lying? As for my post about Al-Jazeera, that not only didn't you get the point, but that you managed to construe the opposite, is remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ozimoron Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 I hope they stop the war. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, ozimoron said: I hope they stop the war. Dubious. "While the ICJ's rulings are legally binding in theory, they lack enforceability by the court. If the ruling favors South Africa's requests, it may increase political pressure on Israel to work towards a ceasefire and prompt international allies to intensify efforts behind the scenes for a resolution and humanitarian assistance in the region." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Hopefully the court will see that the evidence brought by SA was baseless and meritless. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hanaguma Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 Let's see... even given the dubious Hamas-produced numbers, a total of 25,000 people have been killed in the conflict. Let's even stipulate that Hamas is not counting terrorists and criminals in that number. Only non-combatants. OK. The fighting has gone on for more than 3 months. In an extremely crowded, densely populated area. Total population just north of 2 million. Yet in that time, in all the fighting, only 25,000 have been killed. Roughly 1% of the original population. To me, that speaks to the restraint and professionalism of the IDF. Even at risk of their own soldiers, they have kept casualties to such a low level. Bravo! But genocide? Please. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 12 hours ago, retarius said: Obviously guilty from my perspective, you can't murder 25000 innocent people like this, even in a search for revenge. I suspect however that the ICJ will find some technical reason why they don't have jurisdiction in the case, to avoid losing credibility with most of the world. But the whole Israeli operation seems to be designed to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians and to make the now cleared land available to Israelis. Them figures relate to total casualties, including Hamas men. Claiming they are all civilians is the sort of thing you do. Edited January 26 by stats flame comments removed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 The result was as expected. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Provisional measures by the world court are legally binding, but it is not clear if Israel would comply with any order. Top Hamas official Osama Hamdan, meanwhile, said his group would abide by a cease-fire if ordered and would be ready to release the hostages it is holding if Israel releases Palestinian prisoners. “I think that they will shy away from actually calling for a full cease-fire, because I think they will find that beyond their abilities right now,” she said in a telephone interview. https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-genocide-court-south-africa-27cf84e16082cde798395a95e9143c06 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post coolcarer Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 Good result. No ceasefire but sensible provisional measures that need to be addressed with a report in one months time on what they have done to address them. court also states that Hamas must release all hostages with no pre conditions. Provisional measures ruled by the judges of the ICJ: Israel shall : * take all measures to avoid breach of genocide treaty. * insure that the IDF does not commit offences of genocide treaty. * take all measures to prevent and punish those committing incitement to genocide. * take immediate measure to provide humanitarian aid. * take all measure to preserve evidence. * submit a report - in one month - describe its action to follow the provisions measures. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ozimoron Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, coolcarer said: Good result. No ceasefire but sensible provisional measures that need to be addressed with a report in one months time on what they have done to address them. court also states that Hamas must release all hostages with no pre conditions. Provisional measures ruled by the judges of the ICJ: Israel shall : * take all measures to avoid breach of genocide treaty. * insure that the IDF does not commit offences of genocide treaty. * take all measures to prevent and punish those committing incitement to genocide. * take immediate measure to provide humanitarian aid. * take all measure to preserve evidence. * submit a report - in one month - describe its action to follow the provisions measures. That will also mean no bombing of civilian infrastructure and permitting food, water, medicine and essential supplies into Gaza. The court sensibly allowed Israel to continue fighting Hamas but takes out the genocidal attacks on civilians as retribution. 1 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 11 minutes ago, ozimoron said: Provisional measures by the world court are legally binding, but it is not clear if Israel would comply with any order. Top Hamas official Osama Hamdan, meanwhile, said his group would abide by a cease-fire if ordered and would be ready to release the hostages it is holding if Israel releases Palestinian prisoners. “I think that they will shy away from actually calling for a full cease-fire, because I think they will find that beyond their abilities right now,” she said in a telephone interview. https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-genocide-court-south-africa-27cf84e16082cde798395a95e9143c06 @ozimoron Do you believe Hamas will? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, coolcarer said: Good result. No ceasefire but sensible provisional measures that need to be addressed with a report in one months time on what they have done to address them. court also states that Hamas must release all hostages with no pre conditions. Provisional measures ruled by the judges of the ICJ: Israel shall : * take all measures to avoid breach of genocide treaty. * insure that the IDF does not commit offences of genocide treaty. * take all measures to prevent and punish those committing incitement to genocide. * take immediate measure to provide humanitarian aid. * take all measure to preserve evidence. * submit a report - in one month - describe its action to follow the provisions measures. I think this ruling is not completely independent of reports about ongoing negotiations, which apparently already reached an agreed framework of month's pause in the fighting. The 'provisions' would be easier to uphold if the reports are correct - as they would be part of the temporary pause/ceasefire anyway. I do not expect Hamas to release the hostages, though. They'll find some excuse or the other. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I believe the so called exclusion zone being constructed in Gaza will also be the subject of the report in a month. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 4 minutes ago, ozimoron said: That will also mean no bombing of civilian infrastructure and permitting food, water, medicine and essential supplies into Gaza. The court sensibly allowed Israel to continue fighting Hamas but takes out the genocidal attacks on civilians as retribution. You are wrong. It is legally permissible to attack civilian targets under certain condition. Israel would simply have to exercise more care dotting the i's and crossing the t's. It would not necessarily mean what you imagine. Here - you were told, don't act 'surprised', 'shocked' or whatever later on. Noticeably, not a word from you about Hamas having to release the hostages.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) Decent people are aghast tat the genocide in Gaza conducted by IDF troops. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia So are all you Israel genocide supporters gonna change your minds.....no I thought not...I look forward to hearing why the ICJ decision is wrong, corrupt,.perverted.That the ICJ is a tool of SA and always sides with Africans. Edited January 26 by stats trolling comments removed, also unsourced claim 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, retarius said: Decent people are aghast tat the genocide in Gaza conducted by IDF troops. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia You should really pay attention to what the ICJ actually said and ordered. Edited January 26 by stats comment on fellow forum member removed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 14 minutes ago, ozimoron said: That will also mean no bombing of civilian infrastructure and permitting food, water, medicine and essential supplies into Gaza. The court sensibly allowed Israel to continue fighting Hamas but takes out the genocidal attacks on civilians as retribution. War crimes expert now are you. Civilian infastructure if used by Hamas can be a target. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, coolcarer said: War crimes expert now are you. Civilian infastructure if used by Hamas can be a target. Not when it contained civilians. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: Not when it contained civilians. @ozimoron That is your opinion. It is wrong. Not what relevant laws say about it. This was referenced numerous times on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 36 minutes ago, ozimoron said: Not when it contained civilians. Wrong do you really want to go down the route of proportionality again. It’s been discussed with links numerous times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, retarius said: Decent people are aghast tat the genocide in Gaza conducted by IDF troops. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/26/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-icj-genocide-case-ruling-israel-hamas-gaza-hostage-talks-cia So are all you Israel genocide supporters gonna change your minds.....no I thought not...I look forward to hearing why the ICJ decision is wrong, corrupt,.perverted.That the ICJ is a tool of SA and always sides with Africans. A ceasefire wasn't demanded by the ICJ , the war can continue . This isn't a win for Hamas/South Africa 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 4 minutes ago, coolcarer said: Wrong do you really want to go down the route of proportionality again. It’s been discussed with links numerous times I'm game. 2/3 of Palestinians killed were civilians. That's not any semblance of proportionality. Thta's indiscriminate bombing. A war crime. The court found sufficient prima facie evidence to go ahead with a hearing on a genocide complaint. Edited January 26 by ozimoron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 26 Popular Post Share Posted January 26 Hamas stated that they would abide by the ICJ rulings ICJ told Hamas to release their hostages . Over to you Hamas . If Hamas don't comply with the ruling , would that allow Israel to also not comply with the ruling ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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