UK frozen pension returning to UK and going overseas again at a later date!

[chiang mai]

@Thailand

 

My personal experience is very different from what I have read at the start of this thread.

 

I had been Thai resident for many years and my UK State Pension was frozen as of the date I left the UK in 2004. In 2018 I returned to the UK, purchased a flat and set about making myself UK resident once again. It took about three months and required support of my MP and also a letter to the Secretary of State, Amber Rudd. My intention at the time was to spend 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Thailand but to be UK resident for all purposes.

 

After 3 months I received a letter from DWP confirming that I was once again UK resident and that my UK State Pension would be permanently uprated, the letter is copied below but is redacted to protect personal information.  After a further two months I left the UK and returned to Thailand, the colder weather was starting to wear me down. The following year I returned to the flat and spent two months there with my wife on holiday, before we returned to Thailand. We were ticketed to return in the Spring of 2020 but Covid intervened and our flight was cancelled.....we have not returned since and the flat has remained tenanted,

 

Per the letter below: I am very comfortable that my permanent and settled lifestyle is that I travel frequently and spend time in different countries but always return to live on the UK, often after a period of many years away. I am also very comfortable that the next time I return to the UK I will once again claim settled UK residency and my pension will be permanently uprated. The letter follows:

 

 

I am responding to the email dated 1 April 2019 to which included the Rt. Hon Amber Rudd MP about your UK residency status.

I should explain that due to the Secretary of State’s wide ranging responsibilities, it is not always possible for her to respond to

every letter personally. In this instance I have been asked to reply.

 

I was sorry to read of your concerns and on receipt of your email I arrange for your UK residency status to be investigated.

 

I can confirm the International Group (IG) does not undertake Statutory Residence Tests (SRT). However, they did write to you

on 20 December 2018 asking some questions about your residential status in the UK and abroad, this was to establish whether

you are a habitually resident in the UK.

 

As you have spent a significant time abroad we needed to establish whether you are now habitually resident in the UK. I understand

that you returned to the UK on 1 July 2018, then left for an extended stay in Thailand on 6 November 2018 . As this was approximately

4 months after returning to the UK and because State Pension (SP) rates can be frozen, depending on the country of residence, IG required

information to establish whether your stay in Thailand was temporary and to confirm that your country of residence is the UK.  

 

**Redact** 

 

IG has accepted that you are habitually resident in the UK from 28 June 2018. Your SP is paid up to 27 March 2019 at £xx per week,

Increasing to £xx per week from 11 April 2019.

 

It may help if I explain that your country of habitual residence is not decided on the number of days spent in a particular country. IG considered your

individual circumstances, taking into account a number of factors such as:

 

whether you retains a residence and continues to have financial commitments in the UK, when he goes abroad

• is your intention to return to the UK
• did purchase a return ticket
• do you own property abroad and have financial commitments in that country

 

There are other factors which IG will consider when making a habitual residence decision and each decision is based on that customer’s circumstances. 

 

I have asked IG to write to you to confirm they consider your country of residence to be the UK.       

 

In the meantime, should you have any further questions about this matter you can write to, Complaints Resolution Manager, The Pension Service 4,

Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton. WV98 1AG or by telephoning 0191 613 8158.

 

Once again thank you for your enquiry, I hope I have clarified the current position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Complaints and Correspondence Manager

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27 by chiang mai

[jori123]

2 hours ago, treetops said:

 

Oh dear.  Mr. Misinformation is back.  Dod you lose your previous login details?

After your laughingly elongated post on this very subject, lifted from a Filipino expat rag intending to explaining all,(must say a right load of <deleted> too)  Never mind eh    Have another go, but choose wisely, or stay shtum

[jori123]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

@Thailand

 

My personal experience is very different from what I have read at the start of this thread.

 

I had been Thai resident for many years and my UK State Pension was frozen as of the date I left the UK in 2004. In 2018 I returned to the UK, purchased a flat and set about making myself UK resident once again. It took about three months and required support of my MP and also a letter to the Secretary of State, Amber Rudd. My intention at the time was to spend 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Thailand but to be UK resident for all purposes.

 

After 3 months I received a letter from DWP confirming that I was once again UK resident and that my UK State Pension would be permanently uprated, the letter is copied below but is redacted to protect personal information.  After a further two months I left the UK and returned to Thailand, the colder weather was starting to wear me down. The following year I returned to the flat and spent two months there with my wife on holiday, before we returned to Thailand. We were ticketed to return in the Spring of 2020 but Covid intervened and our flight was cancelled.....we have not returned since and the flat has remained tenanted,

 

Per the letter below: I am very comfortable that my permanent and settled lifestyle is that I travel frequently and spend time in different countries but always return to live on the UK, often after a period of many years away. I am also very comfortable that the next time I return to the UK I will once again claim settled UK residency and my pension will be permanently uprated. The letter follows:

 

 

I am responding to the email dated 1 April 2019 to which included the Rt. Hon Amber Rudd MP about your UK residency status.

I should explain that due to the Secretary of State’s wide ranging responsibilities, it is not always possible for her to respond to

every letter personally. In this instance I have been asked to reply.

 

I was sorry to read of your concerns and on receipt of your email I arrange for your UK residency status to be investigated.

 

I can confirm the International Group (IG) does not undertake Statutory Residence Tests (SRT). However, they did write to you

on 20 December 2018 asking some questions about your residential status in the UK and abroad, this was to establish whether

you are a habitually resident in the UK.

 

As you have spent a significant time abroad we needed to establish whether you are now habitually resident in the UK. I understand

that you returned to the UK on 1 July 2018, then left for an extended stay in Thailand on 6 November 2018 . As this was approximately

4 months after returning to the UK and because State Pension (SP) rates can be frozen, depending on the country of residence, IG required

information to establish whether your stay in Thailand was temporary and to confirm that your country of residence is the UK.  

 

**Redact** 

 

IG has accepted that you are habitually resident in the UK from 28 June 2018. Your SP is paid up to 27 March 2019 at £xx per week,

Increasing to £xx per week from 11 April 2019.

 

It may help if I explain that your country of habitual residence is not decided on the number of days spent in a particular country. IG considered your

individual circumstances, taking into account a number of factors such as:

 

whether you retains a residence and continues to have financial commitments in the UK, when he goes abroad

• is your intention to return to the UK
• did purchase a return ticket
• do you own property abroad and have financial commitments in that country

 

There are other factors which IG will consider when making a habitual residence decision and each decision is based on that customer’s circumstances. 

 

I have asked IG to write to you to confirm they consider your country of residence to be the UK.       

 

In the meantime, should you have any further questions about this matter you can write to, Complaints Resolution Manager, The Pension Service 4,

Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton. WV98 1AG or by telephoning 0191 613 8158.

 

Once again thank you for your enquiry, I hope I have clarified the current position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Complaints and Correspondence Manager

 

 

Seen it before, But why inform of departure Nothing to be gained, but if you are paid thru IPC ,yes will be frozen if you oblige with TH address

   As explained in other posts ,there are no punishments if it is  SP   Use AI to verify

 

 

 

[jori123]

7 minutes ago, jori123 said:

 

There are a few things  that make TH unattractive, the up and coming taxation of farangs, weather for two, those floods are getting scary, and the food, western that is, is so damned delicious and cheap.    Early diagnosis of cancer sure saved my life, stage 1,but it takes time to get over the cure, not only the £109 tax free every week (£120 in April) The govt throws in an extra £500 to £1000 every so often, free electic,no rates, free  NHS care, always keeping tags on me, no cheap boom boom the problem

[treetops]

5 hours ago, jori123 said:

After your laughingly elongated post on this very subject, lifted from a Filipino expat rag intending to explaining all,(must say a right load of <deleted> too)  Never mind eh    Have another go, but choose wisely, or stay shtum

 

Confused again?  Seems like it, but maybe you could point the forum in the direction of this "elongated post" just to show us your post is accurate?

 

Thought not. 🙄

[jori123]

24 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

Confused again?  Seems like it, but maybe you could point the forum in the direction of this "elongated post" just to show us your post is accurate?

 

Thought not. 🙄

seems you have your panties twisted yet again, never mind, you are not worth it after exposing your exclusive rendition from a Filipino expat rag, dated years ago, which is just the opposite of quoted posts here.   be careful though ,i might find it ,then u will look the complete idiot,   Anyway, rejoice in the fact that I kept receiving a unfrozen pension there in TH  for years, plus Xmas bonus ,plus winter fuel, now finished, pure jealousy on your part   lol, never mind, another £500,plus early next year and another £20 odd untaxed per week, plus public sector, yes pure jealousy

Edited September 27 by jori123

[treetops]

1 minute ago, jori123 said:

be careful though ,i might find it ,then u will look the complete idiot

 

I won't hold my breath waiting.

[treetops]

29 minutes ago, jori123 said:

Anyway, rejoice in the fact that I kept receiving a unfrozen pension there in TH  for years, plus Xmas bonus ,

 

I'll rejoice in the fact that I've yet to claim but when I do I expect regular rises too plus any bonuses that are going.

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, jori123 said:

 

"But why inform of departure Nothing to be gained", 

 

Sometimes, some of us do things, not just because there is something to be gained but because we're playing by the rules and it's the right thing to do. 

[jori123]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

"But why inform of departure Nothing to be gained", 

 

Sometimes, some of us do things, not just because there is something to be gained but because we're playing by the rules and it's the right thing to do. 

if its the "right thing to do" and absolutely no punishment why put yourself in a position that jealousy springs forth, yes plenty of that" I  know someone brigade", load of tosh. After a few years of being frozen it sure diminishes the amount received, the affordability of being unfrozen probably saved my life by frequent cancer screening

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, jori123 said:

if its the "right thing to do" and absolutely no punishment why put yourself in a position that jealousy springs forth, yes plenty of that" I  know someone brigade", load of tosh. After a few years of being frozen it sure diminishes the amount received, the affordability of being unfrozen probably saved my life by frequent cancer screening

You still don't get it, do you. The rules say I must inform DWP when I move to live overseas, the question of whether there is punishment involved or not, if I don't tell them, isn't part of my thinking. I don't feel that I should be entitled to pension increases, just because I'm a Brit who has paid into the system for a few years, especially when I live overseas and have done so for most of my life. I accept those are the rules and I chose to play by them.  I hope that's OK with everyone and that silly people are not going to try and convince I should do otherwise. 

[Captain Flack]

A troll post offering nothing to the topic has been removed.

[jori123]

20 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You still don't get it, do you. The rules say I must inform DWP when I move to live overseas, the question of whether there is punishment involved or not, if I don't tell them, isn't part of my thinking. I don't feel that I should be entitled to pension increases, just because I'm a Brit who has paid into the system for a few years, especially when I live overseas and have done so for most of my life. I accept those are the rules and I chose to play by them.  I hope that's OK with everyone and that silly people are not going to try and convince I should do otherwise. 

The rules also state I should have waited 2 years back in the UK for access to NHS,but on arrival gave £1500 tax free,plus £100 odd tax free every week, plus £3000 private taxi use every day for 5 weeks of treatment, had quick TURPS opp,could not believe how I was treated,virt every day even now I'm asked how I'm doing  Play by the rules, die by the rules

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, jori123 said:

The rules also state I should have waited 2 years back in the UK for access to NHS,but on arrival gave £1500 tax free,plus £100 odd tax free every week, plus £3000 private taxi use every day for 5 weeks of treatment, had quick TURPS opp,could not believe how I was treated,virt every day even now I'm asked how I'm doing  Play by the rules, die by the rules

No, the NHS operates a residency based system, if you are considered to be a resident then you are entitled to free NHS care and you can be that from Day 1, if that is your intention.

[jori123]

Just now, chiang mai said:

No, the NHS operates a residency based system, if you are considered to be a resident then you are entitled to free NHS care and you can be that from Day 1, if that is your intention.

NHS knew Id come back for treatment, they want me to return to TH if i want to, I want to keep the the tax free weekly element tho,in contact with DWP ,looks promising, that I can, along with unfrozen pension, told no lies, fact is I owned up to it, but did not go thru IPC for pension,    all i can say is nobody can give a toss,, even IPC will advise (right person)will let you know of right way to proceed....anyway Im off to bed ,got Tommy Robinson rally in morn in London

[jori123]

On 9/27/2024 at 11:09 PM, chiang mai said:

"But why inform of departure Nothing to be gained", 

 

Sometimes, some of us do things, not just because there is something to be gained but because we're playing by the rules and it's the right thing to do. 

Have you ever thought thru the rag bag of countries that are classed as remaining unfrozen for ex pats, fault of UK govt, 80 years ago ,or so, set amount of time and money  was allocated to accomplish the mission of making agreements with all countries, but time, money and patience ran out and was scrapped.

 

  There is an "official letter" that springs up at certain times that a couple of weirdos put together that does indeed look authentic as to some form of action was undertaken on receiving unfrozen pension there in TH. Looking deeper it was a voluntary "its there if u want to look it up) voluntary admission to DWP and invited them to a response  as it was 5 years after the event, cost about £250 ,its hard to imagine the jealousy that springs forth

[chiang mai]

16 minutes ago, jori123 said:

Have you ever thought thru the rag bag of countries that are classed as remaining unfrozen for ex pats, fault of UK govt, 80 years ago ,or so, set amount of time and money  was allocated to accomplish the mission of making agreements with all countries, but time, money and patience ran out and was scrapped.

 

  There is an "official letter" that springs up at certain times that a couple of weirdos put together that does indeed look authentic as to some form of action was undertaken on receiving unfrozen pension there in TH. Looking deeper it was a voluntary "its there if u want to look it up) voluntary admission to DWP and invited them to a response  as it was 5 years after the event, cost about £250 ,its hard to imagine the jealousy that springs forth

I have no interest in the list of countries or the why's and wherefores, only what the rules are today.

[hotandsticky]

On 9/28/2024 at 6:07 AM, jori123 said:

The rules also state I should have waited 2 years back in the UK for access to NHS,but on arrival gave £1500 tax free,plus £100 odd tax free every week, plus £3000 private taxi use every day for 5 weeks of treatment, had quick TURPS opp,could not believe how I was treated,virt every day even now I'm asked how I'm doing  Play by the rules, die by the rules

 

 

Nonsense......note the term "IMMEDIATELY entitled"

 

5 Doctors, dentists, and hospital treatment In the UK,

 

NHS emergency care and primary care provided by GPs is free for all. Secondary care and the provision of free NHS nonemergency hospital treatment is based on being ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK. It is not affected by your nationality, whether you pay UK taxes or NI contributions or own a property, nor being registered with a GP or having an NHS number. If you are a UK national, you have automatic right of abode in the UK. If you have been living abroad, you pass the ordinarily resident test on resuming settled residence here and are immediately entitled to free NHS non-emergency hospital care

.

 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf

[jori123]

6 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Nonsense......note the term "IMMEDIATELY entitled"

 

5 Doctors, dentists, and hospital treatment In the UK,

 

NHS emergency care and primary care provided by GPs is free for all. Secondary care and the provision of free NHS nonemergency hospital treatment is based on being ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK. It is not affected by your nationality, whether you pay UK taxes or NI contributions or own a property, nor being registered with a GP or having an NHS number. If you are a UK national, you have automatic right of abode in the UK. If you have been living abroad, you pass the ordinarily resident test on resuming settled residence here and are immediately entitled to free NHS non-emergency hospital care

.

 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf

" If you are a UK national, you have automatic right of abode in the UK. If you have been living abroad, you pass the ordinarily resident test on resuming settled residence here and are imme diately entitled to free NHS non-emergency hospital care"

 

Not lived there for some 20 years, knew I had come back(and leaving )as soon as treatment completed

[Chivas]

On 9/12/2024 at 9:02 AM, crazykopite said:

I had a UK friend living next door to me in Thailand he had been here for years but used a friend's UK address he eventually got caught and had to come clean his pension was reduced until the overpayment was cleared. I think it took 3 years before he paid it all off  his Thai wife was not happy now in his 80s he is still here 

 

Simply not true

 

The UK state pension itself is not sanctionable and I provided the DWP link previously

Edited September 29 by Chivas

[Tiger1980]

When I returned to live in the UK  I was automatically entitled on day one to receive NHS care. Also from day one my pension was  increased to the non frozen amount, thus increasing by a large % amount, if I had returned to a frozen pension country within 2 yrs of returning to the UK  my pension would have reverted to the frozen amount, as it is I’ve remained her since my return receiving a nearly 100% increase in state pension.