As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Can you name any Arab country that since the end of the European Dark Age has gone out to colonise other countries? I'm pretty sure that was a European thing.

Soooo, your contention is that since the Arab countries were colonised by Europeans it's all their own fault that modern israel was imposed on them by old white men half the planet away.

Carry on.

Are the Turks chopped liver?

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I worked in Saudi for years so I am well aware of what Arabs are like, but I don't like bullies whatever ethnicity they are persecuting.

So far Israel have withstood myriad of wars and attempts to destroy it, and so far anyone who tried have lost, 

and that is going to be with the current war, the Israelis and the Jews have NOWHERE TO GO and they will fight 

to the last bullet and the last man/woman... 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I find it very sad that, as an Israeli, you have no compassion for Palestinians. 

 

I find it very sad that, as a Hamas apologist, you have no compassion for Israelis. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Deflection.

Anything to say about one of the last functioning hospitals in Gaza closing?

 

Anything to say about one of the last functioning Hamas military command centres in Gaza closing ? …… there, fixed it for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bkk Brian]

The BBC is still headlining with the WHO statement, no mention of the evidence found already at Nasser.

 

Medicine for hostages, weapons found at Nasser Hospital

Boxes of medicine intended for Israeli hostages, a large number of weapons and a vehicle belonging to a kibbutz that was attacked by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7 were found during on raid at Nasser Hospital in Gaza, according to the Israel Defense Forces.

The IDF said its forces located "medicines specifically designated for the Israeli hostages in Gaza, large quantities of weapons and a vehicle belonging to Kibbutz Nir Oz" during its operations in the Nasser Hospital.

The IDF said it also apprehended "hundreds of terrorists and other suspects who were hiding in the Nasser Hospital, some posing as medical staff."

"Boxes of medicine were found with the names of Israeli hostages on them. The packages of medicine that were found were sealed and had not been transferred to the hostages," the IDF said.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-gaza-hamas-war/medicine-for-hostages-weapons-found-at-nasser-hospital-id-107331259?id=107145680

 

 

https://twitter.com/YaariCohen/status/1759284359616397366

 

[WDSmart]

Here's the latest I heard about any "negotiations" and Israel's impending ground invasion of Rafah...

"Hamas has a choice. They can surrender, release the hostages and the civilians of Gaza can celebrate the feast of Ramadan,"
Israel sets Ramadan deadline for offensive in Rafah (rte.ie)

 

But, there's nothing in there about a permanent ceasefire or how long the ceasefire would continue after the hostages were released. Would the attacks recommence right after Ramadan? Hamas is not likely to accept those conditions. 

Edited February 19 by WDSmart

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Here's the latest I heard about any "negotiations" and Israel's impending ground invasion of Rafah...

"Hamas has a choice. They can surrender, release the hostages and the civilians of Gaza can celebrate the feast of Ramadan,"
Israel sets Ramadan deadline for offensive in Rafah (rte.ie)

 

But, there's nothing in there about a permanent ceasefire or how long the ceasefire would continue after the hostages were released. Would the attacks recommence right after Ramadan? Hamas is not likely to accept those conditions. 

 

I Israel agreed that with Hamas' surrender and the release of the hostages, they would enter into a ceasefire that would last until Palestine fired a rocket into Israel or some other such attack, would you support it? 

[WDSmart]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I Israel agreed that with Hamas' surrender and the release of the hostages, they would enter into a ceasefire that would last until Palestine fired a rocket into Israel or some other such attack, would you support it? 

Yes! I'd support that as a conditional ceasefire, but I'd also like to see a commitment to more talks to determine how Israel/Palestine would be divvied up in what I assume would have to be a permanent two-state solution. 

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! I'd support that as a conditional ceasefire, but I'd also like to see a commitment to more talks to determine how Israel/Palestine would be divvied up in what I assume would have to be a permanent two-state solution. 

 

Should the talks not be conditional as well? 

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Should the talks not be conditional as well? 

Well, all talks are conditional, but what exactly do you mean by that? If you mean the conditional ceasefire will continue during the talks, yes. The problem then is, though, if the talks don't produce a satisfactory result, Hamas has lost all its bargaining power, except, of course, for promising no more attacks. So they are right back where they were before Dec 7, but with over 20,000 of their citizens dead, and it looks like 75% of Gaza is in ruins. I think they could get the UN and other countries to help in rebuilding their infrastructure, but that would take a long, long time. So, Hamas has to think very carefully about just when it releases all the hostages.

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, all talks are conditional, but what exactly do you mean by that? If you mean the conditional ceasefire will continue during the talks, yes. The problem then is, though, if the talks don't produce a satisfactory result, Hamas has lost all its bargaining power, except, of course, for promising no more attacks. So they are right back where they were before Dec 7, but with over 20,000 of their citizens dead, and it looks like 75% of Gaza is in ruins. I think they could get the UN and other countries to help in rebuilding their infrastructure, but that would take a long, long time. So, Hamas has to think very carefully about just when it releases all the hostages.

So, you support Hamas holding the hostages until they get a two-state solution they're happy with? I think that's fair, as long as Israel can keep killing Hamas until the hostages are released.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So, Hamas has to think very carefully about just when it releases all the hostages

 

Everything that you stand for, and your continuing concern for the success of Hamas, perfectly summarised ……. by yourself; many thanks

[WDSmart]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you support Hamas holding the hostages until they get a two-state solution they're happy with? I think that's fair, as long as Israel can keep killing Hamas until the hostages are released.

So, now, I think we're back to the structure of a solution I proposed weeks ago - Hamas could agree to a staged release of the hostages based on reciprocal stages involving a ceasefire and then talks on a two-state solution by Israel. 

[WDSmart]

8 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Everything that you stand for, and your continuing concern for the success of Hamas, perfectly summarised ……. by yourself; many thanks

All this is just a hypothetical scenario by a couple of us on this Topic. When I present my suggestions, they are done by me from the Hamas perspective. I could do the same for the Israeli perspective, which would be capitalizing on the threat of their military power. 

My only concern is that both sides stop fighting, the hostages are released, and this matter is settled somehow so the chances of it flaring up again are minimal. 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So, now, I think we're back to the structure of a solution I proposed weeks ago - Hamas could agree to a staged release of the hostages based on reciprocal stages involving a ceasefire and then talks on a two-state solution by Israel. 

Hamas does not want a two state solution. Or did you miss that?

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hamas does not want a two state solution. Or did you miss that?

Yes, I know Hamas has rejected a two-state solution, but I think now it will have to reconsider that position since it's obvious that it cannot have a one-state solution with it as the dominant power. 

[WDSmart]

...and what is the alternative?

- A continuation of the attacks on Gaza by Israel with attempts to rescue the hostages?
- Hamas then resorting to killing the hostages when any rescue attempt is close to succeeding?

What mayhem and chaos would result from that, not just for Israel and Palestine but for the entire Middle East, and maybe even worldwide?

 

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, I know Hamas has rejected a two-state solution, but I think now it will have to reconsider that position since it's obvious that it cannot have a one-state solution with it as the dominant power. 

Yes because we know that they are very reasonable and rational people, what with the mutilation of toddlers and taking children and elderly as hostages. They can be trusted to negotiate in good faith! Trust me! 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

...and what is the alternative?

- A continuation of the attacks on Gaza by Israel with attempts to rescue the hostages?
- Hamas then resorting to killing the hostages when any rescue attempt is close to succeeding?

What mayhem and chaos would result from that, not just for Israel and Palestine but for the entire Middle East, and maybe even worldwide?

 

I don't have the answer but you act like you do and you don't!

[WDSmart]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

32 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

...and what is the alternative?

- A continuation of the attacks on Gaza by Israel with attempts to rescue the hostages?
- Hamas then resorting to killing the hostages when any rescue attempt is close to succeeding?

What mayhem and chaos would result from that, not just for Israel and Palestine but for the entire Middle East, and maybe even worldwide?

 

I don't have the answer but you act like you do and you don't!

My answer to that is NEGOTIATIONS!!!!! And, I would suggest that would be started with exchanging some of the hostages for a ceasefire. What do you suggest be done right now?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

My answer to that is NEGOTIATIONS!!!!! And, I would suggest that would be started with exchanging some of the hostages for a ceasefire. What do you suggest be done right now?

Eliminate Hamas.

[couchpotato]

But the IDF have had 5 months to do this (ie: eliminate Hamas), and have really only managed to kill 30,000+ civilians, bust up a few tunnels and collapse a thousand buildings. Netans strategy is crap, and needs an overhaul..Hamas will never be defeated in this way. Of course IMHO

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, couchpotato said:

But the IDF have had 5 months to do this (ie: eliminate Hamas), and have really only managed to kill 30,000+ civilians, bust up a few tunnels and collapse a thousand buildings. Netans strategy is crap, and needs an overhaul..Hamas will never be defeated in this way. Of course IMHO

You missed the 10,000 Hamas killed and thousands out of action injured?

[WDSmart]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Eliminate Hamas.

At the cost of the 130+ hostages' lives? 

[couchpotato]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You missed the 10,000 Hamas killed and thousands out of action injured?

No didn't miss it, but terrorist organisations (such as Hamas) have multiple fighters/members with many more waiting in the wings, so this was the point of my previous post.

Anyway nothing on what I say, or you say will change anything.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

No didn't miss it, but terrorist organisations (such as Hamas) have multiple fighters/members with many more waiting in the wings, so this was the point of my previous post.

Anyway nothing on what I say, or you say will change anything.

But you said that 30,000+ civilians had been killed, that's just not true. Hamas terrorists are included in those. So yes you missed it

 

Anyway 75% of Hamas is destroyed so far:

 

Netanyahu says IDF has destroyed 75% of Hamas battalions in Gaza

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-says-idf-has-destroyed-75-of-hamas-battalions-in-gaza/

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

But you said that 30,000+ civilians had been killed, that's just not true. Hamas terrorists are included in those. So yes you missed it

 

Anyway 75% of Hamas is destroyed so far:

 

Netanyahu says IDF has destroyed 75% of Hamas battalions in Gaza

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-says-idf-has-destroyed-75-of-hamas-battalions-in-gaza/

"Netanyahu says..." I think Netanyahu and IDF classify any Palestinian male over 15 that they kill or capture as "Hamas." 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"Netanyahu says..." I think Netanyahu and IDF classify any Palestinian male over 15 that they kill or capture as "Hamas." 

Yet again, what you think has no basis in reality, a little like your delusional peace plan

[WDSmart]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Yet again, what you think has no basis in reality, a little like your delusional peace plan

And you think whatever Netanyahu and/or IDF says is "reality"? 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, WDSmart said:

And you think whatever Netanyahu and/or IDF says is "reality"? 

No but I don't make things up such as..................

 

8 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"Netanyahu says..." I think Netanyahu and IDF classify any Palestinian male over 15 that they kill or capture as "Hamas."